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by Davidadelong on 07:45 PM November 29th, 2005 EST (#1)
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Since this individual was in position of authority over those students it is a travesty that she wasn't punished as a man would be. But, on the other side of the coin, I joined James Strates Shows, a carnaval at the age of 16. I worked and traveled as an adult. I had many affairs with older women, and it was with my consent. Just trying to point out that the "statutary" part is somewhat dependant on the situation, and I think should be considered with all the facts of the situation.
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by Fidelbogen on 09:00 PM November 29th, 2005 EST (#2)
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The only thing that seriously burns me up about these "lady-with-lad" cases is the judicial DOUBLE STANDARD which is applied to them.
While what Geisel did may have been indiscreet and unseemly (not to mention unprofessional), and while she may have had personal issues requiring professional help, it is not the least clear to me that she committed any horrendously serious transgression MERELY for having sex with young dudes who (let's be honest!) very likely enjoyed getting their rocks off!
The problem is (you guessed it) that the shit would hit the fan big time if this had been a case of male teacher with 'little girl'. (And we know damn well that teenage girls can lust after older men. it's perfectly natural: why wouldn't they; why shouldn't they? So don't tell me that those older men are ALL scummy predators....)
We should accept that consensual sexual attraction (hence sex itself) can and does occur across considerable age gaps. Why the taboo? Why are we, as a society, so threatened by this?
So....ahem! If we feel that we MUST apply legal prohibitions in this area (and I admit that a certain case could be made for it) then let us, for the love of sweet Jesus. H. Christ , apply the law with iron even-handedness. (Taking into account such "local variables" as teacher-with-student, which involve a certain fiduciary element of professional ethics.)
Either come down hard on everybody, or cut everybody some slack! Good for the goose, good for the gander!
-Fidelbogen-
"Feminism has a rap sheet."
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by Davidadelong on 08:33 AM November 30th, 2005 EST (#3)
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I see we share the same thoughts. But, as we both know if the rules were even the element of control would be lestened. As far as any professional is concerned, they have an obligation to be just that. As a mentor sex should be taboo, unless of course we still want to adhere to what the Spartans started, and others have perfected. Confusing the most powerful instinct that humans have with that of mentor should be a very serious crime for anyone that crosses the line and perverts a learning situation. I lean toward expulsion and rehabilation the first time, and if there is a second I lean toward erradication from society, or to be precise the death penalty. Oh, and by the way, that would be regardless of gender.
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by Fidelbogen on 12:33 PM November 30th, 2005 EST (#5)
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"Confusing the most powerful instinct that humans have with that of mentor should be a very serious crime for anyone that crosses the line and perverts a learning situation. I lean toward expulsion and rehabilation the first time, and if there is a second I lean toward erradication from society, or to be precise the death penalty. Oh, and by the way, that would be regardless of gender."
Death penalty might be a tad harsh. Expulsion from the profession on first offense sounds more like it. Then the offender would have no second chance to abuse that fiduciary relationship.
And speaking of student-teacher scenarios: I might want to draw the line in the case where all parties are well into adulthood. (E.g; a college student who might even be considerably older than the prof! There it should be strictly a case of in-house policy...).
As for older-younger scenarios in general, well......being "taken in hand" by a gracious older woman is, ideally, one of the nicer things that can happen to a young fellow. But why is it not so when the genders are reversed? I don't pretend to have any quick answers, but the question is certainly worth pondering. The feminist argument might be along the line that women are considered "property", and that men don't want their "property" violated by other men. But in that case, no feminist may consistently advocate a perpetuation of current double standards UNLESS the intent were only to retain yet another prosecutorial weapon against MEN.
Yes, the man-hating motive is by far the best explanatory template I can find. It explains SO much about what really makes feminism tick, gathering it all into an elegantly clear and precise conceptual schematic. I can see no plausible reason to argue that feminism, at its core, is anything but a hate movement.
-Fidelbogen-
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"Feminism has a rap sheet."
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by Roy on 05:54 PM November 30th, 2005 EST (#7)
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I would agree that feminism as a social phenomenon has devolved into a hate movement. But on an individual level, it is manifested as a personality disorder.
And the arena of human sexuality is one of the best examples of feminism’s pathology, because feminists express and endorse all these conflicting ideas, apparently without experiencing the slightest "cognitive dissonance" or upsetting self-realization:
* Women’s liberation entails full sexual freedom, including the right to be promiscuous.
* Men’s willingness to appreciate women’s promiscuous liberation is male oppression and evil patriarchal exploitation.
* Heterosexuality in general is exploitive of women.
* Looking "hot" is every woman’s right.
* Passing judgments about a woman’s enjoyment of heterosexuality is more patriarchal oppression.
* Girls have a right to be slutty without accepting any responsibility for the consequences of imitating a whore.
* Men have no right to decode slutty female behaviors as actually slutty.
* Lesbianism is good, despite the fact that lesbian couples win top honors for the frequency of domestic violence.
* Heterosexual men are to be defined as predators, rapists, and potential pedophiles.
* Homosexual men are to be defined as good, because they resist the patriarchy, and make nice girlfriends.
* Pornography is bad and objectifies women.
* Pornography is good and illustrates women’s sexual liberation.
* Marriage is bad – domestic slavery for women.
* Men who refuse marriage are bad.
Please contribute your own examples of the crazy-making "logic" of feminism!
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by Fidelbogen on 09:37 PM November 30th, 2005 EST (#8)
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"Please contribute your own examples of the crazy-making "logic" of feminism!
The crazy-making "logic" is pithily summarized in a concise one-size-fits-all "nut" shell that we've all heard by now:
"Women have their faults, men have only two / Everything they say, and everything they do".
Naturally, some will protest that this is "only pop feminism" -- as if "pop" feminism were not actually feminism!
A survey of current gender phenomenologies could illustrate how far this principle has infiltrated the collective subconscious of the female population. (Far from being universal, but still far enough to make ample mischief.)
As to which came first -- feminist hate or feminist pathology -- that's a chicken-and-egg question, IMO.
---------------
"Feminism has a rap sheet."
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by Luek on 08:55 AM November 30th, 2005 EST (#4)
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but also, the judge in his sentencing said she was really the victim.(DUHHHH?)
Judge Herrick, in handing down his sentence, said the students "manipulated, used and sexually abused" Geisel. (say what?)
Just more proof that we have more to fear from the idiot bastards in black sheets than from anyone wearing a white one.
Want to bet that Judge Herrick has bad teeth and sleeps with his sister but is still married to his 1st cousin?
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by Thundercloud on 01:18 PM November 30th, 2005 EST (#6)
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She was "manipulated and sexually abused"?????????
I have NEVER, repeat NEVER heard a judge tell a male perpetrator of statutory rape that he was "Manipulated and abused"!!
If THIS doesn't FULLY illustrate the anti-male double standard, then God help me, I don't know what does!
SHE was in a position of authority! SHE was the teacher! SHE was the adult in this situation! How could it POSSIBLY be that she was the one ABUSED and MANIPULATED?!?
I have never heard ANYTHING so blatantly and obviously anti-male and female-favorable in my life.
This judge should be DISBARRED, PERIOD!
Justice is blind my @$$!!
We have GOT to do something about these Wussie-poopie and chivalrous judges in our completely corrupt "justice" system. This is OUTLANDISH!
God, I don't even RECOGNISE this country anymore...
And again it just goes to show; "Men are demonized, Women are diagnosed"!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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As a follow-up to