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I am beginning to think this whole damm country is going nuts. I was 15 once and once in my 20's. At no time did I or any of my male friends ever pursure older women. Speaking strictly for myself older women have never done a thing for me. Never been attracted to them and I would bet not many other men are either. Do these nutcakes really think they are going to change the laws of nature? What the hell are they tring to prove or perhaps they are just plain stupid.
For me it will always be younger women and I have been luckly to have had many attractive younger girlfriends in my time.
pete in nebraska
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by Anonymous User on 05:57 PM August 3rd, 2004 EST (#2)
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I am beginning to think this whole damm country is going nuts. I was 15 once and once in my 20's. At no time did I or any of my male friends ever pursure older women.
I was once 12 and watched as my male friends persued the neighbor ladies. This was always a secret encounter and most always resulted in paternity fraud.
The boy next door is most always responsible for about 30% of the children of another man's marriage. Yet this is the big secret.
Men with their inflated ego can never admit that their wife went to the boy next door, and got pregnant with their next child.
Warble
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by Anonymous User on 02:22 PM August 4th, 2004 EST (#8)
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ABC has a little blurb on their site http://abc.go.com/primetime/schedule/2004-05/despe ratehousewives.html about "Deperate Housewives".Part of it says:"And Gabrielle, the ex-model with everything she always wanted - a rich husband, a big house - so what is she doing with the 17-year-old gardener?"
Wonder how long this show will last?
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There has always been a stereotype that men want younger women. That 40 year old men would love to bed with an 18 year old girl.
Women are just trying to establish a new stereotype that puts them in the greater position. Older women want to be desired and feel that, just as older men are desired by younger women, older women should be desired by younger men.
It's all about turning the tables. I think for women, being with a younger male has nothing to do with perversion...its about themselves and feeling attractive and young (isn't it ALWAYS about themselves?).
What sickens me is that its gone beyond a 30/F and a 20/M. When women start trying to seduce children of 15-16, its sick and wrong. But these women are caught up in the wind, and anything goes. The younger the boy, the better they feel. So it's endorsed.
My opinion anyway.
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The age of consent in my state of Maryland is 16.
In many countries of Europe it's in the range of 15-18. Marriages between 13-16 year olds were not that uncommon even so little as a century ago.
And "pedophile" refers to someone attrected to the sexually undeveloped human beings known as "children", aka "preadolescents". Human females start to hit their fertility peak around the ages of 15-26. Older female/younger male isn't some new invention - have you lived under a rock your entire life?Last but not least, every study or history of the phenomenon of human sexuality that I've ever seen will admit that it is perfectly natural for human males to be attracted to sexually developed females of the mid to late teenage years and older. It is UNNATURAL for one to be attracted to 'children'. Its too bad that uneducated people often can't see the difference.
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by Anonymous User on 02:19 PM August 6th, 2004 EST (#17)
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Remo.
Okay, okay. I gotcha.
I stand corrected on the use of the word "pedophile".
Besides, I'd be lying if I said I never had a sexual thought when a pretty 17 or 18 year old girl walked by. I wouldn't persue any realation ship with them, but yeah, I've looked.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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It really ticks me off how these articles keep saying that this relationship "mutated" into something sexual or inapropriate. It didn't "mutate" into anything! It was ALWAYS a sick, perverted, arrangement in which she boldly disobeyed the judge's original order to leave the kid the hell alone.
And the book deals, movie deals, Lifetime cryathons, will now begin. 7.5 years for 2 rapes. Not a bad deal considering the money she will soon be raking in! I wonder how much she would have made as a "teacher" over 7.5 years. I would love a deal like that! Stick me in a women's prison(yes I know it's not like they portray in those women's prison movies, but a men's prison it is not) for 7.5 years, and watch me cash checks when I get out. I don't even want to rape anyone. Just lock up my ass and gimme my cash!
Yes I'm sure she was a great "teacher." Her favorite pupil is now 21 and unemployed and working on his GED.
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by Anonymous User on 12:59 AM August 7th, 2004 EST (#19)
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"I don't even want to rape anyone. Just lock up my ass and gimme my cash!"
funny shit
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by Anonymous User on 12:00 PM August 4th, 2004 EST (#6)
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I heard on the radio this morning that the lawyer of the women believes the two will "reunite". Of course if this were man and girl, he would of had his sentence extended.
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by Anonymous User on 02:18 PM August 4th, 2004 EST (#7)
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Well,it`s now 2004 and she`s as nutzoid as ever.
I was greeted to the news this morning at 7 when I turned on Good Morning America.I wonder if these news shows will do a story on why she only got 6 months the first time?
In 2000, the USA Network did a movie about her http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0232062/
I wonder what`ll happen now?I wonder what the chances are of her going back to jail?
I remember seeing a story about her on the CBS program "48 Hours".In the same show was a male teacher who had sex with a 16 year old female student.It was the guy`s first offense and he got like 20-25 years!They didn`t really talk about why he got so much and Mary got so little.
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by Anonymous User on 01:08 PM August 5th, 2004 EST (#12)
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>"They really didn't talk about why he got so
much and Mary got so little."
I think we all know the ansewer to that question.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 01:01 AM August 7th, 2004 EST (#20)
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I forgot why I left this place a number of months ago...this crap just pisses me off that no one else gives a shit...I mean really, this is all so fucking obvious that I think our society is in some sort of collective denial...
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by Anonymous User on 01:02 AM August 7th, 2004 EST (#21)
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that was me above.
p. george
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Notice in the article that when this started he was **12**, that she got out after **6 months and then got caught with him again!!!
And for that second time (since she was pregnant it was hard to deny that SEX had occured) she got 6 years.
This is so beyond ridiculous: She kept writing to him even though it was ILLEGAL to contact him, and despite the press REPORTING it, she is getting out.
She is continuing to contact her victim, and she is getting out of jail.
Can you just IMAGINE a man who got a 12 year old pregnant, got 6 months for it (yeah, right), got out, got her pregnant AGAIN, and only got 7 years?
WTF is wrong with this country?!?!?
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 07:07 AM August 5th, 2004 EST (#10)
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I know this will float everybody's boat: Good Day New York did a piece this morning on her release, complete with a mocking review of her "fan club" of 18-year-old males. The whole piece was light and humorous. I compare Fox News with Fox's Good Day NY and just shake my head. The latter is as much a woman's show as Oprah.
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by Anonymous User on 12:17 AM August 6th, 2004 EST (#15)
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Let us hope that no member of the Mary Kay Letourneau fan club ever decides to breed.
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I found a good article on the topic of female child preditors here.
A good book by Julia Hislop from 2001 is here.
Here's another article from the Pennsylvania Express-Times (to avoid forms and cookies):
Female abusers hide behind veil of motherly stereotypes
Monday, February 23, 2004
By Rudy Miller
The Express-Times
They're "ruthless," according to one researcher.
They're often overlooked by authorities who find and prosecute child molesters, and they are among the toughest types of sex offenders to treat once they're incarcerated.
These offenders are not set apart by where they grew up, where they live or what they do, but by their gender.
They're women.
Although women make up a small percentage of known sex offenders, that doesn't mean they aren't committing these types of crimes, according to researchers. Women offenders tend to receive the benefit of the doubt from people who investigate and prosecute claims of sexual abuse, said Dennis Stevens, a criminal justice professor at the University of Massachusetts Boston and a counselor at the women's prison at Framingham, Mass.
"We don't like to connect them with that crime," Stevens said. "That's our basic bread and butter for life: moms. That's like going South and attacking the Bible. It's not what you do."
Victims of female sex offenders are less likely to report the crime than victims of male offenders, said Norfolk, Va., psychologist Julia Hislop, who wrote the book "Female Sex Offenders: What Therapists, Law Enforcement and Child Protective Services Need to Know."
Teen boys are not seen as victims but as developing young men who are "experimenting" with their sexuality, Hislop said.
"A lot of (male) victims of females talk about trying to report their abuse and say they were congratulated rather than assisted," Hislop said. "It's difficult at times for men to come forward."
While men will travel outside their family and social circles to find victims, women offenders stay close to home, sometimes preying on their own children, Stevens said. Often this abuse is viewed as a "family" matter to be dealt with inside those confines, through counseling or, at worst, in family court. But the damage done by women offenders can be every bit as bad if not worse than crimes committed by men.
"They tend to be more pathological than males," Stevens said. "They're more ruthless."
And their victims are often too young to testify against their attackers, so authorities who are already reluctant to prosecute need physical proof of abuse before they can bring charges.
"It's very difficult to bring a charge like that against the mother, because not only are you attacking motherhood, but where do you get the evidence?" Stevens said.
The body of research on female offenders is considerably smaller than work done on male offenders. Although most research is less than 5 years old, it has yielded some insights on how woman can differ from male offenders, Hislop said.
Some women offenders commit crimes only in the company of a male offender. The reverse is rare, Hislop said.
At least one local case lends credence to this theory. Easton resident Linda Ackerman, 45, is serving a 10-to-20-year state prison sentence for luring at least two teenage boys to her bedroom for threesomes with her and her husband, Louis Ackerman, from 1995 to 1997.
Another type of female offender is the type who prefers to offend with teenagers. According to Hislop, these women are often lonely and angry, have difficulty with relationships with men, have poor understanding of sexual norms and have unresolved feelings from being abused themselves.
Former Easton resident Elizabeth Wright, 41, served nearly two years in state prison for having sex with a 16-year-old runaway. Court records say she served alcohol and played strip poker with multiple teens and wrote the 16-year-old boy love letters at his wilderness camp even after she had pleaded guilty to indecent assault.
The lack of research makes treating female offenders in prison a challenge for therapists, said Barbara Doebler, the director of the psychology department at the all-female state prison in Muncy, Pa.
Sex offenders are among the most likely criminals to re-offend. Women offenders are even more challenging to treat than men because their psychological damage is often deeper than men's, Doebler said.
"There is more background work to do because of the huge amount of psychological devastation these women are experiencing," Doebler said.
Women don't respond to the same confrontational techniques that can work for male offenders. Women, however, are often treated in the same programs as men, Doebler said. They are less likely to respond to male treatments because they don't want to admit they have forsaken the role of caregiver.
"Although men tend to deny, deny, deny, the women do it even more," Doebler said. "It's much more difficult for them to admit than men."
Northampton County Assistant District Attorney Pat Broscius, who prosecutes sexual abuse cases involving children, agrees with the experts that there are more women offenders in this area than statistics would reveal.
"You don't get that many," Broscius said. "I'm convinced they're not reported as quickly as male offenders."
Once they're charged, however, women offenders are treated the same as men by her office, Broscius said.
"Eventually, when they're caught, I don't see a difference," Broscius said.
Reporter Rudy Miller can be reached at 610-258-7171 or by e-mail at rmiller@express-times.com.
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by Anonymous User on 01:19 PM August 5th, 2004 EST (#13)
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TLE.
Thank you for that post. It is very revealing.
Also, I find it interesting that so much attention is given to the "Emotional scars" of female pedophiles to explain why they offend. But men are not given the same credence.
I guess men just never have "emotional scars". (sarcasm)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Here you go, Thunder.
Copied from www.ageofconsent.com
I suggest you educate yourself, I've seen you misuse this word many times.
Two things:
A. Mary Kay Letarnue is a pedophile by any definition. He was 12 when they first had sex.
B. My state, Maryland has a legal age of consent *with no five year age range specification* of 16. And we are not the only state to have such a "low" age of consent. Some European countries have similar ages of consent- what, are they all horrible molesters of "children"? Is there NO difference between consensual sex with a 16 year old and "consensual" sex with a six year old? Just how far do you take your position?
Dear Sir,
I have noticed a misconception these days about the term pedophilia. I have seen people mistakely use the term to describe a relationship where the younger person is an adolescent, i.e. a relationship between a 15 or 16 year old and an adult. This is incorrect and people shouldn't classify all adult-minor relationships as pedophilic in nature. I think it would good in the interest of education to have the correct definition on your site.
The American Psychiatric Association defines Pedophilia:
A pedophile is a person who over at least a 6 month period has recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (age 13 years or younger). The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children. Not to include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12 or 13 year old (straight or gay). Individuals with pedophilia generally report an attraction to children of a particular age range. Some individuals prefer males, others prefer females, and some are aroused by both males and females. Pedophila involving female victims is reported more than pedophilia involving male victims.
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by Anonymous User on 02:23 PM August 6th, 2004 EST (#18)
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Remo.
I stand again, corrected.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Thundercloud:
I have the utmost respect for you as a men's activist, and from what I've seen here, as a man. I'm sorry if I came down on you like that. as it is I've seen this case debated on far larger forums than this one and it irked me that we seemed to be able to find far less nuance in this case then the mostly left-leaning folks at www.plastic.com do. I'd noticed you misuse the word in many previous posts before, this time I got annoyed and decided not to ignore it. But I should have said it more respectfully, because I do hold you in high regard. It takes a big man to admit a mistake, esp. when the person who points it out is less than totally nice about it.
Anyway, please notice I made two posts relevent to this topic: One to you, and one to another poster.
My views on the situation are several:
A. Men suffer much more than women in these cases. There is still a double-standard, though to be accurate , it does seem to have lessened somewhat recently. Perhaps because the abuse industry is running out of male perps and male victims to ensnare, rather than simple fairness.
B. I actually think justice was done in this case. Mary K lost her original children's custody, she lost her husband -though he was a cheating dog himself, before she did what she did- and she spent seven years in jail. However, now that the kid is an adult, I really do think from this point on they should work it out between them.
C. Please look into history, and or the laws in other countries. Obviously 8, 9, and ten year old 'child grooms' and 'child brides' are something the world \as a whole is to be commended for pretty much giving up. But 15,16,17? Hell, it varies between states here in the US. Some have 18 as the age-of-consent. Some have 16. Some have 16, but only with others within a five year or thereabouts age range. None, to my knowlege have below 16. And none, currently, to my knowledge allow anyone below 16 to marry, even with parental consent, though in Maryland 8 or so years ago they still had a 14 year old marriage age on the books. They changed it to 16. And then, when you consider fake ids, the fact that some girls look older/younger than they really are, you see why unilaterally condemning anyone who has sex with someone under 18 as the sickest sort of sexual predator is not very fair, and in my opinion a bad idea.
How would I handle it, if I had the power to change things? Well I'd reform the marriage laws to benefit all of the men and woman who are cheated by the destruction of the marital contract. Now as to offenders:
1. Prison for those who molest or have sex with anyone below 15 or 16, but advanced age appearance and a fake id could be a defense. Less prison for 12-14 then for someone who downright molests children. Possible death penalty for rapists or torturers of children -the lowest of the low in the world in my opinion. Aggravating factors would be teacher or doctor or parent roles with the child involved. I do believe that some minor sex offenders are salvagable, and I would hold those who have any kind of penetration with pre-pubescents more guilty then someone who touches them inappropriately. Sliding scale, basically. THe younger the kid, and the more sexual stuff done, the more severe the punishment, up to , and including death. But I'm not gonna condemn Frank the playground exhibitionist quite the same as I would Lester the Molester.
As for 15-17 consensual sex between these young ones and significantly older lovers? Well, its always been fairly common and , if one looks to one's family's past one can see that its not always destructive. Why don't we simply DISCOURAGE it? It's still not often a good idea. So, I'd prefer we apply todays screwed up marriage laws to exactly this type of situation. Let the younger person hold the 'whip' hand so to speak. Plenty will end up splitting up, but honestly, plenty of these marriages will last for quite awhile.
Anyway, sorry to have ranted on you. I know you`r e fighting the good fight, and that the feminists love to twist words and expand definitions of sexual abuse at any chance they get. Let it hereby be known that Thundercloud does not totally agree with Remo, and that Remo does not speak for Thundercloud. If they want to attack ME as some kind of pervert, let them.
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The problem here is the double-standards in gender-perceptions and judgement; women refuse to "malign their own" according to the modern social-licenses that men are "dirty, disgusing, perverted" etc. and women are pure and innocent.
These prejudices and bigoted stereotypes clearly skew social attitudes, and allow deranged women like Mary Kay LeTourneau to get away with not only lynch-mob not calling for her head (or the other obvious inevitable personal things) as would be with a man, but continuing to call this a "love affair" despite that it's no different from a man doing precisely the same thing.
The conclusion from the evidence? Women don't want equality, but preferential treatment with less responsibility.
Somehow, people don't seem to understand that freedom comes with the price-tag of responsibility, however feminist utopians simply believe that women should get what they want just by demanding it. And men protest that this double-standard ends up at their expense, these same feminists bigotedly claim that "men deserve it."
I can't recall or imagine greater examples of arrogance from anyone-- when the truth is that women simply suffer from developmental deficiencies similar to Downs' Syndrome, i.e. immaturity, mental retardation, reduced stature, obesity, diminished sex-drive, limited creativity and self-delusion.
The only way to deal with this, therefore, is to stop indulging such fantasies that women are "equal," any more than with animals or children.
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