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by Anonymous User on Saturday November 29, @07:50AM EST (#1)
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Is this where we're going here? Despite the fact that feminism tends to attack Christianity vituperitively?
Scott, let's rethink this; and neither of these stories particularly are connected to religion, so the gratuitous anti-religious snide comments reflect more of a personal bigotry on the part of the posters than anything either relevant or to the point.
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"Scott, let's rethink this; and neither of these stories particularly are connected to religion, so the gratuitous anti-religious snide comments reflect more of a personal bigotry on the part of the posters than anything either relevant or to the point."
Hi there,
I didn't post this story, Hombre did. I am in the process of asking him why he made the comment you're concerned about.
Scott
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I think that the christian groups are a potential powerful ally, and I would refrain from any finger pointing in their direction. This had nothing to do with christian groups, and to say so is just alienating people. MHO, The Biscuit Queen
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I'm not sure if the Christian comments aren't just a response to the reference to Marxism and Leninism. Perhaps it's a politically left-wing poster asking a right-winger, "How do YOU like it?" But really folks, we're all wearing the same color uniform here. Let's not divide ourselves.
bg
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @12:47PM EST (#18)
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I once heard a Christian Pastor say that there are over 26,000 Christian denominations. Throughout Christian history up until about 400 years ago there were executions of people who committed heresy.
The Unitarian Church was formed out of an attitude of tolerance for heretics of that time. "Too burn a man to death does not kill and idea, it kills a man."
Stephen Zweig (sp?) wrote a book called, "A Right to Heresy." It recounts the burning at the stake of Servates by Calvin in Geneva, and the efforts of Castillo, after that, to call attention to the need to end executions and tolerate heretical thinkers. Servates was the last of 58 executions under that theocracy to the best of my knowledge. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of executions of heretics by other Christian faiths before Geneva.
The Unitarian Church to the best of my knowledge was formed out of the movement advocating for tolerance of those heretics, and their ideas. They call themselves Christians, yet believe in abortion, radical feminism, gay rights, etc. to the best of my knowledge (all lacking Biblical support). It is not my position to judge them so I won't, but will mention that the majority of Christian churches do not recognize their doctrines. For that matter, conservative Lutherans don't recognize Baptist doctrine and vice a versa.
All that being said, you can say just about anything you want about "Christians" and find some support for your viewpoint from some time and place in history.
Generally speaking, Christians politically are referred to most often as the radical right, but there are others on the left, and not all of them agree with each other. The left might comprise ELCA (Lutheran), Presbyterian, Unitarians, Episcopalian (formerly Church of England). Some on the right are: Baptist, Lutheran (Missouri Synod), Presbyterian. I get the Presbyterians mixed up. There is PCA and PCUSA. One is liberal and one is conservative. I can't remember which is which, and there are many more denominations covering the spectrum. By far the largest membership numbers reside in the conservative Christian groups, and are generally the 1st thought of when one hears the word Christian, but not always. Messy, eh?
Happy Sunday regardless of whatever you believe,
Ray
"To burn a man does not kill an idea, it kills a man."
Likewise, to have made a mistake does not mean that you are always wrong, or wrong about everything else you say or believe. It means you were wrong in that thing in which you were mistaken.
Did Feminism start out with many good ideas? Yes.
Like Christianity, it suffers from the corruption of many sound beliefs through the imperfections in people.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday November 29, @09:27AM EST (#2)
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I agree. The problem does not have a religious core, rather a feminist and DV training issue that all cops receive.
Police are TOLD to arrest the man.
I know. I left a violent situation in my house where my ex knew anything I could do to protect myself would lead to my arrest.
She called the cops after I was gone and they came and arrested me anyway.
So, I have lived the hell this man went through. And I don't drink nor am I violent.
The cops and judge thought otherwise despite lack of any evidence....
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by Anonymous User on Saturday November 29, @12:00PM EST (#3)
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"she attacked him with a baseball bat. Lusk took the bat from Jackson and struck her on the back with it." "police ruled that Lusk was the aggressor..."
#1. This is ludicrous. If Lusk was the primary aggressor, then he certainly was the primary victim of battered spouses syndrome as well, but I doubt that will be allowed to come forth. After taking away the baseball bat, his wife was battering him with, the police must have felt he used excessive force when he struck her with the bat on the back. What about all the blows she landed on him in the 1st place, and the fact she was the perpetrator of the altercation? Police = feminist trained, prejudiced bigots in this case and many others.
#2. I'm not sure what involvement the church has in the domestic violence industry in Lima so if those who posted this have any substantiation to that claim please post it. I have gone on a certain prominent feminist web site, typed in their search engine: Christ, Christian, Jesus, Promise Keepers, Church, etc., and encountered the most virulent hatred for Christians I have ever seen anywhere. That being the case I would be very curious to see what specific connection exists between feminists and Christians in the domestic violence spoken of in this case.
I do know of one church where I live that sponsors domestic violence lectures in it’s worship hall. I sent my own pastor there to get an education after he passed out flyers about the event at the end of one of our church services. I was devastated to see this evil being promoted right in our own church pews. I encouraged him to go. After he came back, I then pointed out to him how the police and a local newscaster where lying in the “House of God.” I factually refuted many of the false claims they were making and gave the sources for my refutation. He was outraged at their deceit and later told them so.
My own assessment, given the research I have done on this, is that the feminists love to get their tentacles into the “patriarchically dominated” church structure with there domestic violence lies and create as much dissension as possible. Christian “do gooders” chivalrously, gullibly buy into the feminist lies and reach out to allegedly battered women, and wind up battering innocent men right in their own church pews. I know one arm of the Presbyterian Church even supported VAWA. I saw it on their web site and copied and filed it.
In closing just let me say that their is a classic picture of Adolph Hitler coming out of a church door preceding W.W.II. There is a cross on the door directly behind him, and the camera angle makes it look like the cross is growing out of his head. What’s the point I’m trying to make by mentioning this? Just this, you’d better be very careful what kind of devils you let walk through the front doors of your Church as the behavior of Hitler and Feminist domestic violence advocates will bear ample witness to.
Is there a connection between the domestic violence industry and churches, synagogues, etc.? You better believe it. The domestic violence industry actively promotes it.
Sometimes people get upset when I point out how pervasively the hate agenda of the feminist domestic violence movement has spread into areas where they are familiar, where they have taken comfort, or where they have politically agreed. In doing this I am really trying to underscore how militant feminism like cancer, invades and corrupts many noble places (institutions) with its evil lies and destructiveness.
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this might sound kind of dumb and obivious but, has anyone noticed that if the women is arrested at all then the man is arrested to?
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No, there are some situations in which the woman has been arrested and the man helped. There are still far too many cases like this one in Lima, Ohio, but in many places, they're somewhat fair. It depends upon where you are.
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Christianity, the evil demon arch-patriarchial oppressor religion that doesn't deserve civil rights is the ally of pheminism?
HUH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! HOW THE FUCK IS THIS AGAIN?!?!?!?!
Someone has been smoking WAAAAAAAAY too much crack.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @12:22AM EST (#10)
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Gonzo:
I think some are just being spiteful, because some of the connections coming out that support militant feminists big time are a little to close to home for them. They are just trying to start a diversionary fire, by making this vaguely supported arguement against Christians. I wish instead of name calling they would present some facts. I tried to be magnanimous and actually presented some facts were Christians had supported anti-male feminist policy, but so far no one else has had much else factual to say showing how there's a connection there.
Sincerely, Ray
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Well Ray, a few Questions for them:
When the Boy Scouts opposed letting girls in their organization, and condemned homosexuality and atheism, who is it that most venomously and bitterly attacked them?
Liberal democrats.
When the Episcopal Church schismed over the ordination of women issue, which group most venomously and bitterly attacked them?
Liberal Democrats.
When the Pope pronounced the ordination of women issue to be a closed subject, which folks spoke of removing their status as a church? Which spoke of (unconstitutionally) filing lawsuits to force them? Who was it that most venomously and bitterly attacked them?
Liberal Democrats.
Every time a church attempts to discipline their members for heresy, for feminist ideology, and for all those things our anonytroll rails against about "christians," which group is it that most venomously and bitterly attacks them?
Liberal Democrats.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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Gonzo, I think that you are right. I also think that the Christian church is a very powerful institution and would most likely rally to our cause if approached the right way. They have a vast media network already in place and pretty much value the same things we do here. Has anyone thought of contacting someone in the christian media and feeling them out? If no one has, I will send a pamphlet to the radio station I listen to and see what they think. Perhaps they would be willing to use mens issues as a topic for a show, like 'Focus on the Family' or a similar program. I am not sure what sort of network the Jewish religion has, but perhaps they too could be approached.
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @11:24AM EST (#17)
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"I also think that the Christian church is a very powerful institution and would most likely rally to our cause if approached the right way."
Jen:
Depending on the denomination you approach you will get different reactions. There is a pervasive naivatee and chivalrous attitude through out most churches. If you look at the list of CWA you will get an idea of what you will encounter in many churches after they are aware of the evil militiant feminist agenda.
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/3602/BLI/dotcommentar y/ (no spaces)
"Janice Crouse at the United Nations
The United Nations Commission on the Status of Women Conference is now over. But what happened? Did radical feminists gain the upper hand? Did the Far Left succeed in demonizing masculinity? What did President Bush say that some countries found so deplorable? What happened when delegates refused to agree?
The Beverly LaHaye Institute invites you to click onto the links below and catch up on highlights you won't see anywhere else!
Day 1: Pro-Family Delegates Evoke Fear at U.N.
Day 2: Playing the Blame Game at the U.N.
Day 3: Legalizing Prostitution at the U.N.
Day 4: The U.N.'s Bully Pulpit on CEDAW
Day 5: Cause to Celebrate
Day 6: Battling it Out at the U.N.
Day 7: U.N. Delegates: Let's Talk About Porn
Day 8: Inequality in Housework = Violence Against Women?
Day 9: Are Women More Vulnerable to Violence?
Day 10: Shutting Down the Feminists
Recap: U.N. Adjourns in Chaos
Sincerely, Ray
It isn't what you know that harms you, it's what you know that just isn't so that really puts a hurtin’ on you.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @12:01AM EST (#9)
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I think we should write the district attornies office on this and tell them how unfair it appears to the general public.
Dan the man.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @12:33AM EST (#12)
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"...write the district attornies office..."
Finally, a comment on topic. I wonder if the D.A. has been trained (brainwashed) by the domestic violence industry too? I met a Criminal Defense Attorney in a hardware store, and he told me a story, told to him by a judge who had been sent to d.v. sensitivity training. Of course it was put on by d.v. advocates. When the judge stated that he thought he was suppossed to judge individual cases on their merits, and not the domestic violence criteria he was being presented, he was actually booed by domestic violence advocates at the training.
Sincerely, Ray
The darnedest people come up to you when you go into a hardware store with a T-shirt that says FEMINIST LIES MAKE BAD LAWS.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @01:58PM EST (#21)
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"The darnedest people come up to you when you go into a hardware store with a T-shirt that says FEMINIST LIES MAKE BAD LAWS."
LOL!
Dan
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What if that Jackson cow attacked a cop the same way she attacked Lusk? Would the cop be labeled the primary aggressor? I have no doubt that Ms Jackson would be looking at a significant amount of jail time if the cop had not shot and killed her when she attacked him with that knife. Just why are we in Iraq supposedly fighting governmental oppression and tyranny when this crapola happens every damn day to male segment of our so called just society?
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @02:11AM EST (#14)
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It is very clear, following the sexist line of reasoning of the domestic violence industry, that everything is all men's fault.
Watching the History Channel the other night I was stunned to silence by what I was hearing. A description was being given of the interrogation methodology under Stalin's Marxist-Leninist regime.
It said that truth was not sought after, but what was sought after was a confession. Guilt was automatically assumed so tactics were employed to extract a confession. The parallels to the domestic violence movement at every step were chilling, right up to the batterer's program gulag that tortured confessors (men) are sentenced to attend.
Yes, if you haven't seen the parallels between Marxist-Leninism and the structure and function of the domestic violence industry you will be absolutely astounded at the similarities.
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @01:14PM EST (#19)
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A description was being given of the interrogation methodology under Stalin's Marxist-Leninist regime.
It said that truth was not sought after, but what was sought after was a confession. Guilt was automatically assumed so tactics were employed to extract a confession. The parallels to the domestic violence movement at every step were chilling, right up to the batterer's program gulag that tortured confessors (men) are sentenced to attend.
If that proves communists are feminists, then the spanish inquisition proves Christians are feminists and vice versa.
Yes, if you haven't seen the parallels between Marxist-Leninism and the structure and function of the domestic violence industry you will be absolutely astounded at the similarities.
The DV industry is a for profit capitalistic endeavor. Marx would not have approved.
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then the spanish inquisition proves Christians are feminists and vice versa.
Careful, your ignorance is showing. The Spanish Inquisition was set up by the King of Spain to expel Jewish converts who had backslidden and sieze their wealth. It was condemned and broken up by Rome is short order.
The DV industry is a for profit capitalistic endeavor. Marx would not have approved.
Au contraire - since it goes to the "State" both Marx and his catamite Engels would have roundly approved.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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Careful, your ignorance is showing.
Careful, your selective logic is showing.
You can find similarities between any two groups or objects or people if you look hard enough at some details and gloss over others. An inquisition-feminist theory is just as valid as Ray's communist-feminist theory. This is how Godwin's Law came about - any debate that goes on long enough will inevitably involve a comparison to Nazies, at which point the conversation is declared to be over.
Maybe we need a Ray's Law - any conversation about men's issues will inevitably involve a comparison between feminists and communists, at which point the conversation is over! :)
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I happen to disagree with the whole idea that feminism is a communist puppet, though good and strong deductive and inductive arguments are made that show at the very least that Marxist philosophy and methodology was plagarized by Bettey Friedan et al.
Our anonytroll has made no such substantiation of his wild-ass claims, or even attempted to.
Carey Roberts has promised to connect the dots. I'm willing to let him have his say, as his papers at least have some intellectual rigor applied to them, something that is grossly lacking from our anonymous liberal whacko.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @03:06PM EST (#25)
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"Maybe we need a Ray's Law - any conversation about men's issues will inevitably involve a comparison between feminists and communists, at which point the conversation is over! :)"
To deny the connection is a denial of the fact that Marxist-Leninist ideals for family are soundly a major part of the most destructive anti-male policies to come out of militant feminism (i.e. domestic violence, paternity fraud, false allegations, child custody, child support, destruction of family). All of these support the Marxist-Leninist ideal of government as family, and are soundly seen in it's Western societal aberration know as "government as daddy." I don't see how those facts are an end to conversation about the destructive effects of feminism in men's lives.
I still remember the great society talked about by JFK and Lyndon Johnson, and was young enough then to have confidence that we were a nation of equal justice and equal protection under law. Clearly that vision has been poisoned for many decent men and women by the hate agenda of militant feminism. In a perfect world neither feminism or Marxist-Leninism are bad concepts, but in the writing style of Christina Hoff Sommers, "Who Stole Feminism," who stole equal protection and equal justice for men? That insidious evil would be the Marxist-Leninist based feminism that has emerged over the past 30 years, after the 1st women's commission came about under JFK. In closing, just let me say this, I was a supporter of the feminist movement when it 1st appeared, and still believe in that early vision. It was a good idea at the time and still is. Sadly things have gone very badly for decent women and men under the corrupt Marxist-Leninist version of feminism that is so powerful and so pervasive today.
Sincerely, Ray
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Ray,
From what I've learned, I think it's undeniable that many early, influential feminists were avowed Marxists and it is obvious that feminist theory has it's roots firmly in the Marxist tradition. I further think that both movements are outgrowths of the larger intellectual trend that can be called Postmodernism. However, I generally choose not to bring that aspect up in discussions, for a lot of reasons.
The first reason being the potential to get off onto tangents. Scudsucker has brought up Godwin's Law, much of which can be applied to mentioning communism. By bringing it up in a discussion of feminism you are offering two new topics for conversation: "Are feminists ideological descendants of Marxists?" and "Is Marxism bad?"
I figure feminism's faults stand up on their own without trying to tie them into ideological roots that most people don't care about anyway. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in those roots and don't research them for understanding (though I still haven't got the stomach for wading through Foucault and Derrida and the Frankfurt School of Critical Theory), it just means I don't want to diffuse the effectiveness of my arguments unless and until a feminist apologist starts using Marxist arguments. Even then, merely labeling them Marxist doesn't do much good.
You wrote:
Sadly things have gone very badly for decent women and men under the corrupt Marxist-Leninist version of feminism that is so powerful and so pervasive today.
To me, it would be more effective as:
Sadly things have gone very badly for decent women and men under the corrupt version of feminism that is so powerful and so pervasive today.
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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by Anonymous User on Monday December 01, @02:26AM EST (#29)
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I just heard Daphne Patia (sp?), former women's studies professor, on Glenn Sacks tonight and she referred to the women's studies taught on our college campuses as Stalinist feminism.
I plan to read more in this area so I can more articulately present the nuances involved in this interconnection. I see now that there is really a can of worms here.
I would tend to agree with what you said in your email, (feminism has enough faults of its own that we don't need to cloud the issues by getting into the Marxist-Leninist aspects) except for the fact that my tax dollars are going to promote the political agenda of the feminists and subsidize the recruiting of new adherents to their cause. Women's Studies actively promotes its political agenda on and off college campuses on the taxpayers dime. Since I'm paying for it, I think I have a right to criticize it, especially since I strongly disagree with their politics, and their policies of promoting that politics. Just my opinion.
Respectfully, Ray
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Most of the veteran 1970's feminists who became the leadership of today's radical wing of their movement never seriously studied Marxism-Leninism.
They adopted the simplified notion of substituting "gender" for "class" and invented the powerful new social fallacy of "gender war."
The reason one could never seriously accuse contemporary rad fems of being competent Marxists is simply that their own illogic and solipsism (a theory positing the self as the only existent thing... i.e. terminal narcissism) are incompatible with Marx's primary mode of thinking, i.e. dialectical materialism.
Say what you will about poor old Karl, but he adhered to a rigorous method of examining the objective circumstances underlying his posited class struggle.
Quite the contrary, modern radical feminists have no structured logical framework whatsoever.
Their so-called "research" works backwards from desired ideological conclusions to biased data sampling that "confirms" their a priori "findings."
Marx was an insightful observer of social contradictions, and he would have dismissed today's rad fems as bourgeois poseurs!
Nah, the feminists ain't no Marxist-Leninists. They don't have the discipline for the dogma!
" All I know is that I am not a Marxist."
- Karl Marx (quoted from a letter by Frederick Engels to C. Schmidt, 5 August 1890.)
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on Sunday November 30, @02:45PM EST (#24)
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"Yes, if you haven't seen the parallels between Marxist-Leninism and the structure and function of the domestic violence industry you will be absolutely astounded at the similarities."
In its rabid pursuit of redistributing the wealth from the ruling class "(evil privilege patriarchs)" to feminists, females, and the state. I would say that the domestic violence industry is clearly a Marxist-Leninist endeavor in its structure and in its goals.
Sincerely, Ray
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The historical Marxist-Leninists at least proclaimed that the goal of their class struggle was human liberation. (They did not envision a society of first and second-class citizens, nor one divided by gender into rulers and slaves.)
Radical feminists do indeed seek to subjugate and disempower men; they have no truck with equality under-the-law; rather, they strive consistently for power, privilege, and entitlements for women (only) at the expense of men's social marginalization.
This feminist modus operandi resembles FASCISM much more than it does Marxism-Leninism.
(To quote a recent e-mail from a Grenadian friend of mine who is active in politics...)
"Fascism is a system that centralizes power, ruthlessly suppresses the opposition through terror and violence, and usually has a policy of aggressive discrimination against the targeted "other-enemy."
Fascism rejects the democratic ideals of individual liberty and rights, political freedom, and elected, representative government.
Fascists profess to be populists in that they attempt to mobilize "the masses" against supposed enemies but, in reality, they are elitists.
Fascism employs cadre-led mass movements to seize state power and subordinates all aspects of the economy and culture to its vision of a perfectible society through a totalitarian state. Fascism employs violence and terror to eliminate any and all opposition."
Modern radical feminism is more like fascism that communism because it has no inclusive vision for an ideal society.... it has deformed itself into an ideology that merely seeks power and privilege for one gender.
Utopias require inclusion. The rad fems have aborted their future success by demonizing one-half of the world's citizens, as well as all those women who see through the dementia the feminists would impose upon them.
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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