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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 09, @03:31PM EST (#1)
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I'm sorry, but it seems to me that any man or woman belonging to an organization that promotes individual responsibility would applaud this ad. The ad doesn't say that ALL dads teach abuse to their sons. It says that if the wife is being abused, the children will learn that behavior. Just as surely as they will learn positive vallues they will pick up bad behavior if they see it.
If the issue is, "Why aren't women abusers portrayed too?" why not focus on THAT instead of attacking a necessary social message?
P.S. The ad exec is right --- PSAs are written for shock value because they have such limited exposure. The tactic has worked for anti-smoking campaigns, emergency services, the war on drugs. It's not a conspiracy.
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which came loose in your head that makes you believe this ad isn't anti-male.
read it again, and ask yourself the following: why not provide unfavorable statistics for BOTH genders? why not state that most domestic violence involving parent vs. children is female initiated? when an ad directs it's criticism towards one side of a two sided issue, it is an attack, plain and simple.
don't believe me? just call the la times, and ask them what party they support.
hmmm...probably doesn't matter anyway; me thinks I'm writing to a troll.
Mitchell A. Smith
"An ambiguous perspective is all you can hope for when initially confronted by that which you do not know."
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 09, @07:03PM EST (#4)
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"Why aren't women abusers portrayed too?" why not focus on THAT instead of attacking a necessary social message?"
My Reply:
Well obviously they are targeting men, which you seem to miss and that is misandry, since d.v. is about 1/2 female on male as well.
However, that being said, you make a great point Anon. Two can play their game. I made 10 T-shirts (most unique) last night. I really like the one that says,
IF YOU SHELTER
A BATTERING FEMALE,
YOU ARE A BATTERER!
but I also liked:
SHAME ON THE
DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE
MOVEMENT
FOR LYING!
PRISON AND THE GRAVE
ARE NOT MEN'S SHELTERS
I used a picture of myself (when 6 years old) and put me behind bars, then put tombstones on each side of it.
I've already disturbed a few with that one, because I really was the sweet face of innocence in that photo. A little girl about 10 years old was almost in tears, and clearly she was thinking why is that little boy in jail? She identified with a little kid about her age, and the purported pain the little boy must be feeling so she was more mature in many ways than her grown up insensitive sisters are to grown men's suffering. I told her, "He's going to be O.K. It's just make believe. I lied to make her feel better.
Why did I use a photo of a little boy? Shock value! Sweet, innocent little boys grow up to be battered and abused men that nobody cares about, and that feminists and chivalrous Marines tell, "Get Tough or Die!" Truly, for men in this world, “the quality of mercy is not strained.”
also,
FEMINIST LIES
MAKE BAD LAWS (getting to be an old favorite of many)
TELL THE
DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE
INDUSTRY,
"STOP
BATTERING
MEN!"
THIS SEXIST SYMBOL FOR JUSTICE
PERSONIFIES AND DEIFIES MISANDRY
(this is around a photograph of Justica holding the scales and sword). I photographed Justica in a stone carving on the L.A. County Law Library with a digital camera, and through the magic of technology now have her on a T-shirt with that saying.
I've got great T-shirts I'm working on that I haven't even set up yet, but I will, God willing.
Gee wiz, October is just too short for wearing all these T-shirts in public so my friends I declare this the 1st ever AWARENESS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN YEAR. Have fun, I will. After all SOME females and the domestic violence industry batter men all year long.
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @11:36AM EST (#18)
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PRISON AND THE GRAVE
ARE NOT MEN'S SHELTERS
WOW. I really like this one. I have a cousin with a t-shirt print press, maybe he will print me up one. Jen
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @05:23PM EST (#22)
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Jen:
Go for it. I've already started manufacturing my 2nd hundred, and I've done them all with a hand iron. Most T-shirts I've done have iron ons front & back. I use the Avery iron ons I get at Staples. The dark shirt irons are better quality, but the white ones are easier and cheaper to manufacture. The dark and the white iron ons are two very different processes to print out and iron on.
In the past I have copied exactly from microsoft publisher (where I make the layout) and sent these by email to friends, but I, for some reason, can't post them here when I try that.
These T-shirt ideas are open to anyone who wants to use them. I wore one just today to the bank and the post office, and turned quite a few heads.
One early morning in June I stopped to buy a newspaper as we were going to a protest, and when I came back to my truck an old guy who had been out walking was staring at my truck sign. I said Good Morning, and so did he, then he said, "I've never seen anything like this in my life." Normally, that's the reaction I get from young people, but it just goes to show how little we stop and think about valid issues that affect men. Even old guys realize the neglect that has been shown to valid men's issues when they see them presented cogently.
Truck signs and T-shirts are great, great educational tools, if I do say so myself. If you want to talk about these issues, there is no better ice breaker than a controversial T-shirt.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @10:40PM EST (#28)
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Have you thought about selling them? I would certainly buy one. My cousin is (coincidentally) coming over tomorrow, so I can talk to him about making the shirts. They can pump them out by the dozens, all computerized screens and any colors. Perhaps I could get an order and we could use them to give out for contrabutions to this site or an organization? I can get them for under $5 a piece I think. You are so right about a shirt being a conversation starter.
OMG, it just occured to me this is the first thing we have agreed on! *I am getting choked up Ray* ~sorry, I couldn't resist;-)Jen
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 11, @01:23AM EST (#36)
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Jen:
I can be reached through the NCFMLA web site via email to them.
Ray
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The ad doesn't say that ALL dads teach abuse to their sons.
No, but it does say that abuse is something sons learn ONLY from their fathers. When mothers are abusive don't their sons learn something?
--sd.
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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I contacted the author of this piece, Susie Steckner, and she replied shortly thereafter, saying that she plans to run a story on male victims of DV next week. I referred her to the man in charge of Stop Abuse For Everyone. So this should be somewhat encouraging.
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I contacted the author of this piece, Susie Steckner, and she replied shortly thereafter, saying that she plans to run a story on male victims of DV next week. I referred her to the man in charge of Stop Abuse For Everyone. So this should be somewhat encouraging.
I'll file this under "I will believe it when I see it." I've heard that sorry chorus sung way too often and they always seem to be lost in the shuffle.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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I also got a response regarding an upcoming story on male victims. (Minus the announcement and descriptions of PSA's I'm sure).
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I contacted the editor as Susie is now on VACATION. Here is her address:
rose.tring@arizonarepublic.com
She told me the story was coming out next week. Bug her to make sure it comes out
Peace
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @10:41PM EST (#29)
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I got a "this is beyond the scope of our web page". What crap. jen
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @10:46PM EST (#30)
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Ms. Kuhn:
All of the facts used on our website are from the 2000 report derived by the National Organization of Domestic Violence. We received permission from them to present them on our websites. All facts are not reflective of every age group, each gender, and each situation at the same time. That is impossible. And we, as an organization, felt that we would be more effective if we focused our efforts on men speaking to male abusers. We are not wrong in doing this, and we wish more than anything that we could handle more aspects of DV than we are able to do so at this time. However, if you look at the accomplishments of MAN and what we have been able to achieve since our existence, changes are being made. Maybe not as quickly as you would like, and maybe not for the specific group of victims that interests you, but they are still changes and for the better, not the worse.
If you feel so strongly about it, please, join the cause against domestic violence. Find an organization that does specifically what you would like to do also. We encourage those that are passionate about the subject to get involved, not sit back and criticize those that are already doing their part.
I hope this response satisfies your question, With a small staff for MAN, we are not able to continue conversations with everyone who emails us with comments, praise, and concern. Please accept my apologies for not being able to continue emails with you as there are other tasks to be completed for MAN. I urge you to get involved. The more time you spend helping the cause, the less time it will take you and MAN to get the job done.
Katia A. Brown
kbrown@azfoundationforwomen.org
This is her e-mail. I suggest she is bombarded with a few replies on this? I feel very bitchslapped right about NOW.
Jen
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 11, @01:09AM EST (#35)
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"focused our efforts on men speaking to male abusers. We are not wrong in doing this,"
Ms. Brown:
Actually, you are very wrong for doing this, and such work reflect a serious lack of moral integrity. It is despicable to stoop to such half truths and misrepresentations. Clearly people who do this are a part of the domestic violence problem, and not a part of the solution. By portraying domestic violence this way, the person doing so is misrepresenting it as exclusively a male on female phenomenon, and thereby innocent men are battered in the process.
May all of the evil you do men come back to you, but as kindness so your twisted cruelty may yet know enlightenment.
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Jen,
wanna hear something funny? I got an almost EXACT comment/reply from her. It's almost Verbatum! She cuts and pastes a bit. So, I replied. The SECOND letter (it's on my E-mail at work - I am home - or I would post it) was QUITE terse. "here is our position, sir ...". I REALLY wish I could post it. Tell you what .. here is my E-mail at home:
lsbeene@gci.net
E-mail me (so you don't have to post yours openly, I don't care if I get hate mail). I will show you the reply I got to my second E-mail. Hope to hear from you Jen. =)
Peace
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 09, @07:07PM EST (#5)
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Trudy:
You are a good and caring person. You personify (like many of the good people who visit this site) what is right about people in the world. Don't change, unless it's even still more to the good.
Sincerely, Ray
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Now I'm gonna go get all misty -- ;>)
But it's nice to know I'm appreciated!
T___
T______
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs the river."
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @07:54PM EST (#24)
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I appreciate you very much.
Thanks Trudy!
John
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May I pile on please?
The men's movement needs women, and you just proved it.
TLE
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by Anonymous User on Sunday October 12, @03:29AM EST (#40)
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"The men's movement needs women, and you just proved it."
Yes, absolutley, real women like Trudy, and other dear women like her.
The delusional rad fems & G-fems are too busy (being chauffeured around on their tandem bikes by fishlike creatures in some sort of psychotic, aquatic, nether world) to be involved with men.
Sorry about that last sentence I guess I just get a little freaked out from time to time by some of that radical feminist imagery.
Ray
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." (infamous feminist quote), but I forget by who.
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Over here ithere is some org called break the silence that is running an add showing a male dv victim. the ad begins by showing several women with the word victim on thier clothing or other items and talks of the need to report cases that you think are happening, then it goes on to say that there are many who most wouldn't suspect as victims . it the shows a man entering his car, and victim is written on the lincense plate
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This is excellent news! A TV spot that at least acknowledges male victims of DV.
Keep fighting, gang. The tide will continue to turn our way, and I don't mean "toward males" but rather "toward accuracy and fairness", which just happens to benefit us in this case.
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In the newspaper piece, it states -
>> (Brian) Landauer (the PSA ad's producer)is a founding member of the group, which has more than 100 business and community leaders who want to hold abusers accountable and prevent future abuse. Members lobby lawmakers, host public forums and training sessions, speak to groups and promote media campaigns.
The father-son campaign kicks off later this month, and Landauer hopes it will be carried throughout the year.
Leah Meyers, director of domestic violence services for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence in Phoenix, said such campaigns rally the community at large and also validate victims' feelings that such abuse is unacceptable. >>>>
WELL... if these stellar DV advocates were truly about "preventing future abuse" and "validating victims feelings"... they would be about also telling the TRUTH about domestic violence.
Tragically, the DV dogma they endorse is vehemently anti-male, inherently gender-fascist, and illogically committed to denying most of what is known and proven through credible social science research about family and intimate partner violence.
Take a look at their Arizona website (Trudy's referred link)... it is a full-on misandrist diatribe chock full of falsified statistics, intentional glaring omissions, and radical fem ideological screed.
I'll be a believer when they produce a PSA that advises women and girls not to employ the state DV gestapo to falsely accuse men/fathers and ruin their lives, steal their property, and alienate their childen!
I'm waiting, without expectation.
And Trudy, you're probably on the Arizona DV ideologues major sh*t list, since you keep putting the spotlight on their misdeeds and consistent dishonesty.
You go girl! We'll front your bail when it comes to that! ;-)
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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That may be closer than we think! ;>)
I'm filing a fraud complaint against our local shelter with the AZ A.G. for using false and misleading information to solicit funding.
T______
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs the river."
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Trudy you might as well be proactive.. and put a potential bail bond solicitation via PayPal on your desertlight blog!
It's only a matter of time... if you keep walking the righteous path you're on!
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @01:20AM EST (#13)
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"I'm filing a fraud complaint against our local shelter with the AZ A.G. for using false and misleading information to solicit funding."
I love the sound of legal action against the domestic violence industry. No one is more overdue for a stict auditing than they are.
The d.v. industry is so dishonest and outrageously out of line, that they should have lawsuits and other legal action stuck to them like flys stuck to fly paper. As you are fully aware, they are a slippery and slimy bunch when it comes to being held accountable for their abuses.
My sincerest wishes for every success. May your hard work come to full fruition.
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I'm filing a fraud complaint against our local shelter with the AZ A.G. for using false and misleading information to solicit funding.
Trudy, this is great! I trust you'll keep us informed and let us know how we can help.
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Yes, I'll keep everybody informed! THX for the good thoughts!
T______
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs the river."
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That shows a girl growing up watching her mother:
- scream in her husband's face
- fool around
- Lie to the police and get her husband locked up
- talk on the phone with her girlfriends about how she's going to "get" the bastard
....and so on and so forth, and have it close with: "She's becoming a lot more like you every day."
*sigh* trouble is, if I ever do see it, I'm sure I'll have to wake up eventually.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @08:51AM EST (#14)
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Why not sponser a bill board ad showing a man at a table with his head in his hands, a child cowering at his feet, holding dad's leg, and a woman holding up a shoe (or phone,etc.) and screaming at him. Make it a man in a suit and a woman in old sweats, the house messy. "Abuse happens every day" or "If this victim leaves, he loses his kids" or something.
How much do those things cost? I have no idea. I would be interested in contributing financially to something like that. Jen
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Excellent idea, Jen. I, too, would be interested in pooling money together to do something like that. Perhaps the NCFM would be willing to direct some member funds toward a project such as this? What do you think, Marc?
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How come you post Anon. I mean you sign your name, but post Anon. Not being a pest, just asking. All women are welcome here and you always try to be helpful. You should get a "handle". Just trying to make a suggestion.
Peace
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @10:47PM EST (#31)
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I had one, but the password was so long and random I kept forgetting it! If it really bothers you guys I can go ahead and try again. Jen
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 11, @12:33AM EST (#33)
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My old computer crashed and I haven't been able to change mine either, but then I've locked myself out my house and had to break in from time to time also. Keys and passwords are another curse of modern life.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 11, @12:51AM EST (#34)
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Jen:
I actually looked into this some time ago and found billboards to be very, very expensive. My solution was to get a 4' X 8' sheet of plywood and mount it in the back of my truck. I painted GENDER PROFILING IS HATE CRIME on one side and EQUAL JUSTICE FOR MEN on the other and drove around L.A. After a while I thought it was getting a little old so I bought more plywood and made others. I have 7 or 9 signs now. I forget exactly how many. The nice thing about the rolling bill board is that you can park it in different areas (like in front of a court house or elected rep's. office) or you can just drive it around. I'm no good at painting or drawing pictures, but really like the imagery that was suggested earlier for a billboard. I know that in Microsoft Publisher I have created protest signs that are as big as 30" X 40". I took many of the images and graphics that I had created for T-shirts and just blew them up.
In one of the projects I inserted a digitalized photo of the state capitol in Sacramento, and wrote CALIFORNIA IS A SEXIST HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT TOWARDS MEN.
I can't draw, but I am a decent photographer so if I can get a picture of something, it's not to hard to get it on a sign or a T-shirt through my computer. How big can it be blown up? I don't know I've only done 30" X 40". I print out the 30" X 40" poster on a laser printer using 8 1/2 X 11 paper, then cut the edges off each sheet and tape them together. Kinkos has told me if I burn a CD of my project they can print it out on a single large piece of paper, but not as cheaply as I print it out on a laser printer. I hope this gives you some ideas.
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 11, @07:33AM EST (#37)
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I have an Outback, so the wood is out, but they do make those large sheet magnets which just stick to the side of your car. You could just replace them without damaging the paint anytime. I have to go out to the mall today anyways, I will stop by the craft store and see how big they make them. One on each side of the car should work. Jen
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 10, @11:48AM EST (#19)
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So where is the DV info on violence against men by women? It happens AS often as the other way around, and yet I see nothing in your website addressing this.
One good example is my son 'went out' with a girl last year who bit, scratched, kicked and punched him, as well as sending suicide notes and threatening to have him beat up and killed. He was 12 years old. She outweighed him by at least 30 lbs. The school would do nothing, it did not consider this real violence because it was against a boy. My son had been trained by years of in school seminars that dv is guy against girl, not the other way around. He had no idea this was wrong, and I had no idea it would ever happen, until it did.
Abuse is abuse, and by focusing only on one aspect, you are responsible for miseducating the public about this issue. You are supporting violence. What is that saying you use? If you are not against DV you are an abuser.
Thank you, Jen
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As the tale of Jen's son illustrates, radical feminist ideology has so successfully poisoned the hearts and minds of bureaucrats everywhere (schools, courts, police, politicians, et. al.) that we have now essentially arrived at a point in FemAmerica where maleness itself is perceived as criminal.
Once defined as a criminal (or, a criminal-in-the-making... i.e. "every boy/man is a potential rapist...") it's then almost automatic to deny boys/men their inherent right to be believed, be treated fairly, and have full consideration before being demonized as lesser humans.
As in the movie saga The Matrix, it is essential to radical feminists that no crack in the DV "reality shield" should become apparent to the masses of deluded and/or apathetic citizens.
Once the TRUTH (i.e. long-known social science research findings about domestic violence and especially women's frequency of unprovoked violence against their partners) becomes widely KNOWN... then the gender-fascist's house of cards will fall with astonishing speed.
It's worth noting that the DV Industry has become the feminists principle bludgeon against men, who are now threatened 24 x 7 by the DV gestapo squads standing ready to haul men away from their homes forever; and the same pathology of "gender war" is the fems primary tool to keep women in a continuous state of apprehension.
The connection here is that feminist tactics always rely upon cultivating FEAR.
Unfortunately, women are far more sophisticated than men in using indirect and third party abuse as a way of creating fear in one's adversaries in order to achieve power and control.
They learn and practice this art as girls/adolescents, when they become well acquainted with using friendship as a weapon.
And, because society tells young women they must be "nice," they learn to use a whole arsenal of quiet, invisible, concealed tactics to wage their girl culture combat.
The "silent treatment," shunning, starting vicious rumors, making false accusations,destroying reputations, getting others to do your dirty work,denying you're even involved in the carnage...
These are the artful maneuvers that young women master before they even graduate from high school!
Then, as full-grown women, these same tactics are refined and polished in their psychological combat with men. (Guys, we never stood a chance in the competition for best performance by an emotional terrorist!)
Enter the STATE... with its biased, discriminatory, anti-male police, courts system, and DV Industry.
It's quite clear that our society has created an apparatus for indirect violence and third party abuse against men that is logically connected to how girls/women are socialized to use their performed innocence and "victim power" to get what they want while still masquerading as uninvolved and powerless.
As Warren Farrell so eloquently summed it up in his book The Myth of Male Power --
"The weakness of men is the facade of strength; the strength of women is the facade of weakness."
And therein lies the source of the radical feminist's diabolical, even magnificent genius, to coerce our society into utter ruin.
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 11, @12:28AM EST (#32)
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In California, in the ten year period from 1988 to 1998 there was a 392% increase in the arrest of women for domestic violence (CA Attornies General Office). There was an increase in the states population and a double digit increase in the arrest of men, but taking all those things into consideration and adjusting for them, there was still about a 360% increase in the number of arrests of women for d.v. That's a lot, and one must ask are women getting more violent? The increase was steady with no declines in that time period.
Couple those statistics with a story in the L.A. Times that talked about a significant decrease in the deaths of men resulting from domestic violence. It is reasoned that this is due to the fact that women have places to go (women's shelters, d.v. counsellors, etc.) when they feel like killing there husbands, and that these places help them. Men have no such places, just jails, so I guess when they get out and have no place to seek help they just kill their wives or girlfriends (their intimates).
It appears to me that women in our society are getting more violent despite the services and rhetoric espoused by d.v. advocates, but the statistics are contridictory. Male deaths are decreasing, but arrests of women for domestic violence keep increasing year after year after year.
I would attribute the drop in d.v. deaths of men to the fact that they get framed for d.v. by feminist trained cops and judges, then sit in jails and courtrooms, until they realize they could get killed by female violence and divorce their battering wives.
I am very open to other interpretations of the data. It's confusing, or I'm missing some significant piece of the puzzle.
Sincerely, Ray
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