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Somehow we need to learn how to work together.
Despite our history. We are brothers.
And straight, gay, and bi- brothers need to do the same.
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I believe this is a major men's movement issue. Men should not be spending thier lives in prisons no matter their race.
Ulitemately I think the whole thing is nothing more than a cash cow for very sick and twisted individuals.
The system needs to process more than it needs to find justice at this point in our history.
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Dan Lynch
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Black males suffer greatly from laws which give preference to females in employment and the receipt of social services. The black family has desintegrated because of the same. Further, many of the "Moral laws" such as the "War on Drugs" have had an extremely adverse affect on males, especially black males resulting in their incarceration at a very high rate. The American black family and culture, like the caucasian family and culture, is a matriarchical culture which has futher denigrated the black male and the white male. In most, if not all, African socities, from what I understand, the Black family is a patriarchical culture with the result that there is very little divorce. Such being the case,
the men's movement should futher the purposes of the same to include the rights of all males, including black males. The furtherance of the rights, as males, of Gay males, in my opinion, should be included in the men's movements and gay men should be included in the men's movement without discrimination in any form against them and without unjust preference shown to the same. Gay issues, by themselves, should not be included in the men's movenment, in my opinion. I am completely heterosexual.Both gays and blacks should receive equal treatment under the law without preferential treatment,"affirmative action". Those white males who have been subject to discrimination because of their race and/or gender should receive just compensation for the same. The aforementioned will never happen in the USA because of the current electoral,social, cultural,political, and religious system,culture and procedures now in place in North America.
C.V. Compton Shaw
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That statistic seems extreme, but keep in mind that most people in college are 18-30. In prison, you see people from a much wider age range. The article didn't mention any ratios for other races, although with blacks accounting for 46% of prisoners and whites accounting for 36%, 791,000 black prisoners probably equates to about 575,000 (off the top of my head) white prisoners. I don't know how many white people are in colleges, but I'd guess it's in the millions.
There is one statement I didn't like though...
"It is a sad statement about our nation that it appears to be easier for governments to invest precious public dollars into the incarceration of African-American men than it is for them to invest in higher education," a spokesman for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People told the New York Times newspaper. I call BS. There is no shortage of education dollars for blacks, in the form of scholarships, grants, and loans. There is so much saturation that many scholarships go unclaimed! There is also the condescending bullshit of affirmitive action, which gives blacks an additional leg-up. If more of them don't go to college, it's because they choose not to go.
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by Anonymous User on Friday August 30, @03:58PM EST (#4)
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((("the article didn't mention any ratios for other races."))
They rarely if ever do, Hunsvoti.
At first, I wasn't going to comment on this one, because I try to keep my American Indian activism and Men's activism in seperate cornors.
That said. I always find it AMAZEING That in this country, if you are not "Black" or "White", You simply don't COUNT!
ALL 'racial statistics' are from a "White", "Black" prespective. You always hear things like; "Does tha President have the "Black vote?"" (Sometimes you hear the "Hispanic vote." But Rarely) Have you ever heared any one say; "Does the President have the INDIAN vote?"?
Or for that matter the "Asian vote", "Hindu vote", Etc, Etc...?
NOPE, Just "Black" or "White". Before any one flames Me, THINK about what I say.
For those of us who "Don't count" The problems are often overwhelming.
You constantly hear about how "poverty" effects "Black people". But how many people know The conditions on MANY Indian revervations?
For example, The Lakota reservation(s) is (are) as bad (and in some cases worse) than a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY! MANY People LTERALY die of starvation and lack of proper medical care YEARLY.
There are people there who FREEZE to DEATH (freaquently children) every winter.
On nearly ALL reservations the conditions are similar. The jobless rate is STAGGERING and the poverty crippleing.
Off reservation Indians don't fare much better.
Few people know that HUGE discrimination against Indians is common in highering practices.
(For lighter skinned brothers and sisters it doesn't seem as bad, alot of us pass ourselves off as "White", At least at the time of a job interview. ...I have.)
As far as the numbers of Indians in prison, I don't have the exact numbers, But proportionaly I can tell you it is JUST as high as Blacks. and in some states HIGHER.
But when you belong to a group of Americans that "don't matter" That's the reality.
One more thing..., Does anyone remember the flack that was raised by some Blacks a few years ago when they were saying "There aren't enough Blacks on Television."?
Well..., When's the last time you saw an "INDIAN SITCOM"?!?
Okay, Okay I'll stop now.
I know this may seem an inapropriate place to say these things, But trust me, Our (Indians) "outlets" are VERY few in number.
But that's as it is for those of us who "don't count."
Thank you for bearing with Me.
Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud:
That was a good rant. Thanks for sharing your feelings and insight. We have to be able to speak openly about such things, if we are going to fight hatred and oppression.
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Sorry Im not going to fight for more people to be on television, what a colossal waste of time. Personally I think Im doing your people a favour.
Sorry Thundercloud.
I also did notice that the paper was British, it could be propaganda which many countries tend to do including Canada, to make claim to how good they are as opposed to how good the US is.
The major note is, I would still like to see us working together rather than against eachother. Uhh united we stand divided we fall.
Fembots are making great strides at uniting the cultures of women, of course they are backed by the UN and government money left and right.
,
Dan Lynch
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Sorry Im not going to fight for more people to be on television, what a colossal waste of time.
I wouldn't oppose him too much, Dan. Television has great influence. It convinces many people of what is normal. Men are incompetent and stupid and evil. Women are long suffering and wonderful, spiritually developed and intellectually superior. You've seen it a quintillion times (OK, maybe only a few hundred million times).
American popular culture is one of the most powerful forces in the world. Perhaps the most powerful. (And that comes from someone who watches television about 1/2 hour a month.)
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"American popular culture is one of the most powerful forces in the world. Perhaps the most powerful. (And that comes from someone who watches television about 1/2 hour a month.)"
I didn't mean fighting the cause for racial harmony was a waste of time, I just meant watching television was. :-)
I just watched the movie 'High Crimes' I think I would have to give that a 4 out of 5 on the misandric scale.
Btw Thomas, you're watching to much tube.
Don't even get me started on how men are reduced to watching women have lesbien sex all the time in such movies as 'Under Cover Brother' and whatever. Now thats another thing that defines culture. Women have sex while men sit on the couch and drink beer. Personally thats not what I would call 'healthy' sexual attitudes at all.
Here's one for you Thundercloud. Does anyone remember when Marlon Brando had one of his friends accept his academy award for him? I think that was one of the greatest things ever.
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Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Saturday August 31, @12:16AM EST (#20)
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Dan,
I just finished watching "High Crimes" as well, and I am interested why you believe it to be so misandric. I understand that the role played by female Ashley Judd was that of an independent, powerful lawyer, and of course all the bad guys were, well, guys. However, I'm not sure that this constitutes rating it "4 out of 5" on the misandric scale. Especially when considering who all the bad guys were. I don't think the movie could have had females playing roles as members of the special forces. And considering that the movie revolved around that fact that the guy's wife was his lawyer, and he was part of the special forces, I don't think that switching the sexes of the characters would have worked very well.
BTW, I'm not disagreeing with you Dan, I'm just saying that maybe I wasn't paying good enough attention to the details. I guess the movie might sort of preach the message that women should not trust their men to be anything other than potential criminals, but that might be stretching it a bit far, IMHO.
-hobbes
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" I don't think the movie could have had females playing roles as members of the special forces. And considering that the movie revolved around that fact that the guy's wife was his lawyer, and he was part of the special forces, I don't think that switching the sexes of the characters would have worked very well."
How conveinant. Lets start from the beginning. She is a Lawyer and who is she defending? A rapist. Whats going on? Ashely is objecting to the fact that a woman a jury member is an advocate for sexual assault victims and a victim her self (no doubt by a man). The Prosicution who pulled the stunt is - a man, the woman who was a jury member was a woman who did this because of what a man did to her, not of her own free will. The judge is just an idiot helpless to Ashley's demands. Ashley walks out of the court room saying what a great woman she is for being an advocate but stating how it recks a someones chance at a fair trial with such bias.
Now this is the killer Hobbes, the rape case was based on a he said she said case, keep this in mind for further reference.
Husband is whisked off to military jail blah blah blah. The guy who introduces himself to her is an asshole, the guy with the wacked eye. The husband is brought into the visitation room with the young cadet or whatever he was basically a moron. The defence lawyer hired to defend the accused another moron what a baffoon.
Ashleys own associates tell her she's through if this mess is leaked by the press by you guessed it a man. (is it all men who work at the firm?) He to is a baffoon on a good day, a stuttering fuck that if he was a lawyer that is making money Im moving to the states tomorrow because I will be the next whoever because they are all stupid fucks. After talking to Marc Angelucci, I do not believe that these lawyers are that dumb, if so, Marc, Im available.
So far every guy is a dumb fuck. And as you say the militery has nothing but men, really? This is the modern world, they could have put a few babes in there just for show. Right they did, one, some chick with an opinion and guess who cross examined her? Ya, you guessed it, the drunk.
We do have a slut sister but doesnt everyone? Thats why I gave it only a 4 instead of a 5. The judge excluded prominent evidence, the witness in the hotel room was a man lying under oath. The prostitutes with the hearts of gold were working to prove the guys innocence so they are free from any wrong doing because they were doing it for a guy.
The cambodian man may be classified as the token woman Im not clear on this and I apoligise, but the main issue was about women and children being murdered, in the movie there was only one comment about men being murdered and guess who said it, thats right, the murderer.
Now the murderer was a man who could beat the polygraph who could lie, now remember that 'he said she said' business? Believe me it all ties it in the grand scope of things.
The movie shows you can't trust your husband that yu should be suspicious of your husband and that he can't be trusted no matter what because he can convince a polygraph he can convince you.
But we havent even got to pop culture now have we. What do we really have at the end of all this? We have bored women who rent videos women who need drama and excitement in their lives and convince themselves that they need something but not sure what it is. The answer is in the video, divorce your husband, he can't be trusted, men can't be trusted, men lie, men are whatever. The patriarchy (represented by the general) can't be trusted. Hell they let the guilty guy go because of their own culpabilities. It says that the "patriarchy is so powerful guilty men can be aquitted just like that". Now keep in mind the origin of the movie the whole 'rape' theme. This element doesn't dissappear just like that, its still in the psyche of every woman who is watching the film right now.
Of course I only seen the movie once and this is just off the top of my head, I may have missed a few things but you have my email and you can respond to the post.
Btw anyone here at anytime can email me on any issue.
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Dan Lynch
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I almost forgot. When Ashley's character lost her baby as a result of what bad men did to her.
This could very well be fundamentally flawed.
Im suggesting that it is more likely a woman of her age just cannot sustain a child in the womb, which there is a reason for.
You see the couple trying to concieve and the rituals that they have to go through to obtain a child. This is pheminist doctrine at its best. Telling women they can still have it all, a career of "full partnership" and still have a child whenever they want (though its really doesn't say how old she is).
After the nurse comes in she is mumbo jumboing that Ashley can have another child not to worry, because we know from the beginning that if she just goes through that ritual it can happen. Horseshit.
The summation is that 'it was fate' thereby not really her fault the child was lost because the husband is a murderer.
My take on it is , its very party line propaganda. Men bad or baffoons, all things patriarchial i.e. the national government the "real power". It tells women to go for career, divorce your husband, not trust men, not have babies to early in life or at all if possible.
To be brutally honest it looked a lot like left wing propaganda trying to destroy the family unit.
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Dan Lynch
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Unfortunately I don't really have the time to write a very good response, with summer finals and all. So I'll write a quick one instead :)
I agree with you on some of your points, Dan. I forgot about the beginning of the movie and the whole rape case thing. On the flip side, it does hint at the fact that many rape cases involve jurors with severe bias. But I do see your point.
However, it is my opinion that many of the things about the movie that you mentioned as being misandric were actual quite neutral. For instance, you state that it was a drunk man who questioned the female Lt. Colonel. Well, for being a drunk, he certainly made a lying fool of her! I think such instances can be interpretted either way. In fact, I think that most of the things you stated as being misandric could be interpretted as misandric, misogynistic, or neither, depending on who's doing the interpretting. Kinda like the feminists that think educators discriminate against girls because they punish boys more severely.
BTW, I never said that the military doesn't have any females. I stated that the SPECIAL FORCES don't have females, which, to be best of my knowledge, is true.
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The drunk maybe also be a token woman under the definition 'Spreading Misandry'.
In reality, yes the special forces is a good point that men only occupy this terrain. But how about the Judge?
And as it turned out, the witness was actually correct in her investigation but was shown to be unethical and uninformed, not actually a liar.
I am suggesting that this film was made primarily this way and by using the special forces it could even suggest more of why women should be a part of this group.
The summation of the script is misandric there is no getting around this.
Pheminists have been asserting that if only women were in such positions of power that war would all but dissappear.
The point of our friend being a drunk is a sign of his inadequacy.
I'd like for you to email me on this because I think we will lose this thread soon. But when you have time, I want you to point out one man of valour in the film. One man that had any moral fibre.
As for the women. All we have is a slutty sister, two hookers, and the witness who as we know was 'lied' too. In order to prove her credibility as suspect. Turns out the guys who did statements were telling the truth, the guy who didnt testify wasn't. Odd.
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Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Saturday August 31, @03:15AM EST (#24)
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((("Sorry, I'm not going to fight for more people to be on television what a colossal waste of time. Personaly I think I'm doing your people a favor. Sorry, Thundercloud."
Actually, I was just useing that as an example of under representation of Indians in main stream society.
In order to be recognized as "people who count" by the media, Ones "group" must predominatly hold CERTAIN "political views". You can probably guess what those "views" are.
Generaly, Indian people do not hold those "certain political views" There fore we are ignored by mainstream media. A media that has very SPECIFIC political and social agendas.
Dan, PLEASE don't be sorry.
The way the media is now, The last thing I want to see, is THEM useing my people to further those formentioned agendas.
Agendas that MANY of my people refuse to be martyrs for.
The fact is, If I ever sold out to the media's agenda, The price would be my SOUL!
Thundercloud.
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I agree with this. The BBC article gave full statistics for blacks, half-assed afterthought-like statistics for whites, and just didn't mention anyone else.
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by Anonymous User on Friday August 30, @05:03PM EST (#5)
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African-American men are some of the most oppressed persons in the US. The men's movement needs to stick up for these men as human beings and recognize the male dimension of this human tragedy:
1) Advocate for a bigger role for fathers and male mentors to young blacks.
2) Denounce "primary aggressor" DV laws that criminalize being male.
3) No men should be jailed for not paying child support. It's as simple as that (Al Gore, are you listening?). Given the massive institutional sexism in family courts and the gross sex inequities in jail population, this affirmative action program -- "no jail for men who don't pay child support" is a small, feasible, symbolic step to recognize the problem. If child support can't be reformed, then come up with some other way to punish non-compliers.
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Being one of a very small number of white children in junior and senior high, I had to put up with a shitload of oppression, almost all of which emanated squarely from black children. Many of them spent untold hours of class time ridiculing me. A few of them even attacked me, for no reason. And when I say no reason, I don't consider "he was standing there" to be a reason. I've been slapped, smacked, punched, thrown into a ditch, and pushed into mud... all by blacks who I didn't know and had never even spoken to.
I had it lucky. Howard Stern was beaten bloody in the streets for the crime of being caucasian, because his retarded liberal parents thought it would be good for him to live among blacks in the poor part of town.
So when I hear the tired old black victim mentality welling up, I feel no pity, no compassion, no caring at all. Why should I? It would be GENEROUS for me to say that they'd shown me no compassion, because they had no reason to interact with me at all. They went out of their way to persecute and torment me.
I was going to conclude a certain way in this paragraph but it sounded apologistic so I'll skip it and let you draw your own conclusions.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday September 01, @03:40AM EST (#38)
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I agree Stern is a "Jerk" ('can't stand the guy, myself.) but it's STILL wrong to brutalize some one, Jerk or not.
Man..., 'never thought I'D be "defending" Howard Stern.
Ba-ba-booey, Ba-ba-booey.
Thundercloud.
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Howard Stern was a child when this happened. Even as an adult he wouldn't deserve it. Bababooey!
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http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/30/opinion/30KRIS.h tml
"As he picked at a fruit salad in a restaurant here in East Peoria, his headquarters, he recalled an incident in childhood that first led him to regard nonwhites as vermin: At a dance, he saw white girls "betraying their race" by kissing black boys. "I felt nauseous," he said solemnly. "Interracial marriage is against nature. It's a form of bestiality.""
"A law school graduate, Mr. Hale, 31, has built the World Church of the Creator into an international organization with members in 49 states and 28 countries. It claims 70,000 to 80,000 adherents and boasts in press releases that it is "the fastest-growing white racist and anti-Semitic church in America."
"Mr. Hale's group, the World Church of the Creator, whose followers have shot, knifed or beaten blacks, Jews and Asian-Americans in several states."
A good start would be to start protesting groups such as this.
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by Anonymous User on Friday August 30, @07:48PM EST (#13)
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http://64.39.30.79/pi_crimes/default.htm
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It's worth noting that in hate groups, as in the rest of society, women are demanding and taking positions of power and leadership.
From the Anti-defamation league's website.
Her Race
From the Her Race Web site comes "Gaia: Everyone's Mother" by Inga Niteau. Niteau declares, "Whites are facing extinction as more non-Whites reproduce and invade our lands." She believes "only whites have succeeded in inhibiting their animal instincts by reproducing at a rate that is balanced by the mortality rate." Niteau also asserts that "Whites have a right to have many more children than non-Caucasians."
"Lights, Camera, Action," by Lisa Turner, declares that "White people are subjected to anti-White images via television and motion pictures" because "the enemy forces have total control of the film world and movie-making business." Turner dreams of a "White people's 'Oscars'" at which whites "all sit together in a dazzling hall and applaud as our enemies do now for their lackeys."
World Church of the Creator
Women's Frontier
The World Church of the Creator (WCOTC) Women's Frontier Web site contains some of the same articles as the male-oriented World Church sites (WCOTC is a pseudo-theological extremist group that attacks Christianity, Judaism, Blacks and immigrants with equal vehemence). These documents point to Jews as Satan's children and deem Blacks and other minorities subhuman
"mud" people. "We believe it is vitally important for White people -- especially our White Sisters --
to fully understand the bizarre, disgusting and criminal behavior of the inferior mud races," explains the site in introducing "The Mud Chronicles," accounts of Black and Asian mishaps.
Women for Aryan Unity
Characterizing advocates of tolerance as "credulous, dependent, and conformist creatures," "The Aryan Struggle," an article at the Women for Aryan Unity Web site, claims that "nature has revolted against race mixing," resulting in a "sickly population." The article also asserts that those who "don't believe there is a race problem all over the world" have been cowed by "psychological conditioning and institutional dictates."
We should certainly oppose these groups. But we should also remember that their power is far, far, far less than that of hate groups like the N.O.W. and the A.A.U.W.
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I know I'm risking flames for this....
You folks put far too much faith in the ADL, have you seen the Alexa web reviews of the ADL website yet? it makes for a interesting read.
Hmmm, I can't help but notice that anything pro-white get labeled as "hate" regardless of its content, I wonder why that is.... (rolls eyes skyward)
I can just feel the flames now :-)
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Don't worry about flames from me, Adam. I'm certainly not an unabashed fan of the rather politically correct ADL site. I just quoted the info from their site, and the specific quotes are accurate.
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Is it me, or has it been alot easier to drift off topic lately?
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"Is it me, or has it been alot easier to drift off topic lately?"
I think we are right on course.
The Topic is black men in prison, the issue is racism.
We need to be speakly freely on this. We have to start by deflating the blame. It was the blacks who brought their own black brothers down to the docks and sold them for slavery to the white men somehow that rarely gets mentioned.
The truth is, we want a future free from this shit once and for all. Pointing fingers isnt going to help us one bit. Politicians like pointing fingers because they promise justice but its a lie, they can never deliver it.
If you want justice come to me and free yourself from this hatred its eating us up inside and its distracting us from our real potential as men.
Do away with our right wing left wing policies and see how they are destroying us bit by bit for someone else's gain.
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Dan Lynch
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"The truth is, we want a future free from this shit once and for all. Pointing fingers isnt going to help us one bit. Politicians like pointing fingers because they promise justice but its a lie, they can never deliver it.
If you want justice... free yourself from this hatred its eating us up inside and its distracting us from our real potential as men.
Do away with our right wing left wing policies and see how they are destroying us bit by bit for someone else's gain."
Absolutely!
Politicians are notorious for throwing money at causes, where they hear the wheel squeaking the loudest. They often do this without regard to what is most efficacious or benenfical to society.
No better example than the Violence Against Women Act, (in 1999, all numbers approx. 1218 women are murdered by intinates, approx. 1100 children under 12 are murdered, only 424 men are murdered by intimates, BUT 11,195 men (overall) are murdered compared to 3,731 women (overall)). There is battered woman syndrome, battered child syndorme, but no battered man syndrome. We have the VAWA, and about a month ago I heard one of the most highly rated T.V. pundits in all of prime time call for a Violence Against Children Act. Where the heck is the Violence Against Men Act. Add the numbers in for all wars while your at it. Having more black men in prison than in school is appaling, and is just another facet of the general throw away attitude of American society towards all men.
We should be pounding on the doors of all levels of government and media demanding men's commissions to address the needs of men who are short shrifted in all areas where special intersts groups have come in and sensationalized their agendas beyond the merits that are due them. Equal justice does not exist for all men, but it is high time that it does.
American men are not yet being heard or represented as they are entitled by law so they should, figuratively speaking, pound on the doors of government, and then pound some more.
Ray
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In a very recent year... "1100 children under 12 are murdered... 11,195 men (overall) are murdered... 3,731 women (overall))".
I know children are cute, and that we all want to protect them, but does anyone see the media playing on our vulnerabilities and sensationalizing all the abductions and missing children stories beyond their statistical relevance to the overall picture of victimization?
This was the same media that spotlighted women's causes and helped them obtain their grossly over-inflated importance at the expense of equal justice for all. We have less a representative form of government based on reality, but more, one that knee jerks legislation to the spin of the media giants.
The truth of the matter is that in America today, law is based more on potential to contribute to human specie survival than it is on individual rights, therefore special protected status for women and children, and just murder away on men to your hearts content. No VAMA, no men's commissions, nothing for the insensitive brutes, but hard labor and abuse. If some men behave badly at times is it any wonder considering the signals, the conditioning we are being sent by our corrupt, perverted American government?
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"Politicians are notorious for throwing money at causes, where they hear the wheel squeaking the loudest. They often do this without regard to what is most efficacious or benenfical to society."
Sometimes Ray, they make the wheels squeek themselves once they know how to push the right buttons.
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Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Saturday August 31, @03:49AM EST (#26)
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You know what? I should have mentioned this earlier.
I agree with Thomas about "political correctness".
Though I occaisionaly DO use the term "Native American", As a general rule I reject it as a title.
ANYONE born in America is a Native-American.
Most Indians would preffer to be called by the Indian nation we are desended from. (For instance I am Cherokee.) But with around 500 tribes that is all but impossible.
When Columbus came here, He called us "Indios."
In Spanish it means; "A people at one with God."
Later the word somehow was corrupted to "Indian".
Therefore, I am perfectly comfortable with the term Indian.
But those who demand speech codes order you to call us "Native-Americans".
What B.S.
And on the same note. Why is it that EVERYONE else is reffered to as "fill-in-the-blank-Americans? I.E. African-American, Native-American, Etc. But there is no P.C. term for caucasians? It is still Ok to call them "White".
And why is it Ok to have "Black pride" or "Indian pride" (Which I do) But if you have "White pride" you are somehow a bigot...?
I don't get that.
As long as you have no animosity towards OTHER races, and simply just happen to have pride in your own, IMO, DOESN'T make you a RACIST!
I know, I know. Here I go AGAIN.
Sorry.
I'll stop, now.
Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud:
It's ironic how things turn out sometimes. I identify a lot with what you are saying about your indian heritage, but I think it's because I grew up "white, male and German/American in a politically correct world.
German/American - That means in my case 100% German ancestory, never been to Germany, and had a cousin who landed at Omaha beach (not 1st wave), but died in combat in France fighting Nazism, then there was my uncle Herman, WWI infantry, who was gassed in the trenches in France fighting Germany. The list of my family tree in service to this country in time of war is longer than that, and includes me, but the point is I often get the reaction, "oh, so you're German, and I start to see the wheels spinning in their conditioned little minds." I even told one person one time, "Hey grandpa and grandma came here ater the civil war and before WWI (1890's to be exact) so my family had nothing to do with the causes you are trying to tag me with."
I have a dream that someday people will judge me on the content of my character, instead of the color of my skin, or my gender, but
as long as radical feminist, hate monger, bigots like Barbara Boxer, Hillary Clinton, et. al. hold public office this will be only a dream.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Sunday September 01, @03:13AM EST (#37)
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Ray,
I know what you mean. I have heared people talking about the Nazis, Who use the word "German" interchangably to describe the same.
I don't know how many times I've corrected some one by saying to them; 'Yes the Nazis were German, But not ALL Germans were Nazis.'
With other Indians I have even had to say; 'Yeah, The Ku Klux Klan is made up of all white people, But not ALL white people are "Klans-persons".'
As an Indian desendent I have had to deal with something like you described.
I have been called a "Wagon-burner". Even though historicaly only ONE wagon was EVER reported to be burned by Indians... ONE! And some reports at the time said; that the wagon was, actualy, burned by an un-attended cooking stove. (Go figure.)
Add that to the fact I have never personaly "burned a wagon"... Well You get the point.
It's like feminists saying "all MEN" are rapeists.
I have never raped. Nor would I ever rape. (And to you wise-guys who say; "You would if you could get away with it..." The ansewer is, NO I would NOT!!)
Anyway, I don't know if ridding society of such generalizations of others is a "dream" as you said, But I do know that, one way or another, it's gonna take a heck of a lot of work.
...I have enough aggrevation...
Thundercloud.
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I have trouble with this. I'm gonna have trouble articulating it, so I risk possibly sounding racist and being flamed. So be it. I'm neither racist nor sexist, though some may interpret my position that way. I DO have a problem with the growth in illegal immigration, and I'll say it quite bluntly: we are risking our national security unless we lock down our borders. This is something that has trouble me for long before 9/11/2001.
These are women who have stated a position against the growth in the non-white population, not, as far as I can see, men. At THIS web site, it seems to me that we are devoted to gender equality. Let's not mix these issues. We have trouble enough organizing around men's issues.
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Frank, I hope you caught Bob Park's latest article at mensnewsdaily on that very issue.
It does seem that this issue is starting to catch on in the mainstream.
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Yeah, this is not the place for that kind of discussion, but it reallly bothers me a lot. And it's not racial or ethnic hatred, either. I just see the whole southern California thing growing, where illegal immigrants come and demand to be treated in hospitals without payment, educated without paying taxes... As a nation, we allow a higher-than-most immigration rate and we always have. There's no reason we should have to accept this. I saw the Parks article and I agree with him. What's worse is that you can't even get the elected officials to talk about it, I guess because the pro-immigration lobby must have some awesome political power.
So, on this issue, I do have some alignment with the white-supremists, but that's just about all I agree with them on.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday August 31, @01:03AM EST (#21)
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I too have a problem with the growth of immigration but I hope you are smart enough to identify where the problem lies. (I work in a position where H1B visas are handed out like candy so you may say I have a personal stake on the issue of immigration.) To help you identify the problem let me ask this question: If the government can pursue and hunt down ‘deadbeats’ with ease, could it not do the same with ‘illegal’ immigrants? Fact is the government sees illegal immigration as a plus. Every study ever made on the issue of services received (health, education, etc.) shows that illegal immigrants receive much less than what they pay in the way of services.
On the issue of ratios of black men in prison, my feeling (and in this case it is just a feeling) is that there is probably some kind of agenda going on. The statistics speaks for itself.
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Unfortunately, I think the proportion of black men in prison has to do with two things: 1) the overwhelming propensity of the courts to assign harsher sentences to men than women (hence the unreasonably high proportion of black MEN versus black WOMEN; 2) the propensity of society to enforce the kinds of laws that the inner city population is most likely to commit. I suspect that white America commits as many crimes as black America, but the crimes are different: cheating on your taxes, consumption of drugs (as opposed to distribution), investment fraud... I also suspect that white America has figured out how to commit their worst crimes in a manner that flies "under the radar" of the enforcement officlas who look out for crimes committed in the street. There may be MANY white college girls paying their tuition through prostitution; there are many whites who quietly use drugs in their homes; I'm sure the overwhelming majority of investment fraud is committed by whites. But there appear to be far fewer convictions. The justification for this may be that when crimes are hidden from view, they are less "offensive." Perhaps they are regarded as so because when they are so hidden they don't pose ancillary problems like drive-by shootings or burglary or AIDs.
I regard it as an unfortunate circumstance of history that the inner cities in the U.S. are predominantly populated by African-Americans (and Jamaican-Americans and Haitian-Americans). I merely mean that, by whatever means we got to this point, we are here, now, and we must deal with the problem as it is, not as we think it should have been. We can decry this as racism if we want, but the fact remains. These kinds of "quality of life" crimes are the ones people, including civilized residents of the inner city regardless of their ethnic makeup, want enforced. We cannot enforce them without incarcerating their most likely perpetrators, who, as a matter of this circumstance, happen to be largely black. I really don't believe that there is any conspiracy or really any serious deliberate targeting of black men, but I do believe that we tend to focus on certain types of crime, and that fact makes it LOOK like racism.
The solutions are not embedded in affirmative action or entitlements or even reparations. How many of those families, after all, would benefit from reparations? There have been many immigrants cross our shores since the deliverance of the Emancipation Proclamation. I suspect the solution is to immerse the children of the inner city in homes with the kind of values that we want for all of society, and in homes where they come to believe that their dreams are accessible, not merely distant, unacheivable ideals.
And I think this is an enormous, if not impossible, task.
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