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We should slam them with calls and letters and a boycott. In fact, maybe we need a boycott page.
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Not a bad idea about a boycott page (or would that be girlcott? :smirk:). That would definitely fall under the category of activism.
I am trying to gather this type of blatant misandric/male bashing in popular culture as a reference and as an example for a possible class I may teach in male activism and men's rights movement. Can anyone tell me how to print out BOTH screens for this card? I can only get the first one that says "Men are always whining about how we're suffocating them." I cannot get a copy to print of the second screen. any help would be appreciated, please send to me at Menrights@aol.com.
Tony
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I would think this is a minor issue except for the fact that that it was put out by a branch of Progressive.com which produced the sick anti-male hate message in their insurance commercial, so it's clear that the corporation itself garners this type of anti-male hatred.
But the fact remains that if women want equal rights then they have to show equal respect; this is just one more example of the double-standard by which some women feel totally free to mouth off and let fly with the most unfeeling comments and messages, and then belittle the men who complain about such abuse. There's no reasoning with such people.
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Here's a link to an email feedback form for this company. I hope folks use this to let them know this is unnacceptable. I will include the note I wrote to them below.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your card "All men do is whine" is a very sad example of misandry, (the hatred of men). I doubt seriously that you would allow such a card if it were directing death toward women or children. So, why is it okay to do so towards men?
I await your response.
In the meantime I will be telling everyone I know both online and IRL about this misandry and your lack of ethics and encouraging them to not use your service.
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"I doubt seriously that you would allow such a card if it were directing death toward women or children."
Try not to put children into this as it reinforces the women AND children.
This company also knows that few men use their services.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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Respectfully disagree Dan. Comparing a death threat with children amplifies the absurdity of the original misandry.
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"Comparing a death threat with children amplifies the absurdity of the original misandry"
I see your point,Tom.
Its just that "women and children" again groups them together. Unless we can start saying "Men and children" "or men and their children". But I want to avoid the trap of using children as a sheild and or lever. This is child abuse in my mind, feminists have made an artform of this.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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Very good point Dan that by grouping women and children it allows women to co-opt the vulnerability of the kids. Similar to the way the fems try to co-opt the "pain" of Afghan women or many others. Thanks.
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"""Its just that "women and children" again groups them together. Unless we can start saying "Men and children" "or men and their children""""
It has always annoyed me whenever discussing capital crimes someone always says "murderers and rapists" in the same breath.
This automatically links rape, viewed in this misandrous culture as a mostly male perpetrated crime against women, with murder.
And also, it subtly says that men are the only real murderers in this culture. And women if they rape, say a young underage boy actually did the young lad a huge favor and gave him something he can brag to his friends about. And if women kill it is most probably in self-defense. Much like that scum bag in England that only got five years for killing with an axe a man who was blindfolded and had his hands tied securely behind his back! She played the "abuse excuse" card and won.
We need to stop using the words "rape" and "murder" together. This is a tiny way to get rid of the misandrous mind set this society has been programmed to adopt.
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Thanks for the link - made it easy for me to put in an objection too.
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Maybe it would be helpful to point out to eGreetings that they are probably in violation of their own Terms of Service contract?
I would say they are definately in violation of the first three items of their own TOS.
****Acceptable Use Policy ****
Egreetings has adopted the following Acceptable Use Policy in order to assure that its electronic greetings are used in a lawful and appropriate manner. While Egreetings does not ordinarily monitor the content of users' greetings, it reserves the right to investigate reports of misuse of its service and to protect its property and assets. The following conduct is prohibited on the service:
Acceptable Use Policy
Egreetings has adopted the following Acceptable Use Policy in order to assure that its electronic greetings are used in a lawful and appropriate manner. While Egreetings does not ordinarily monitor the content of users' greetings, it reserves the right to investigate reports of misuse of its service and to protect its property and assets. The following conduct is prohibited on the service:
sending harassing, abusive, or threatening messages;
sending obscene or pornographic messages or images;
sending defamatory or libelous messages;
sending viruses or other harmful, disruptive, or destructive files;
attempting to steal passwords or credit card information;
sending messages in furtherance of unlawful, criminal, or fraudulent activity; or
attempting to conceal or misrepresent the identity of the sender.
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Here is the email I just sent to them at:
http://www.msn.egreetings.com/customer/emailus.pd
"To whom it may concern.
I was very dismayed after viewing your eGreetings page titled "Love Stinks" at:
http://www.msn.egreetings.com/category.pd?L0=61&L1 =502&L2=1040&L3=50657&L4=0&L5=0&adisplay=1
It is disconcerting to think that a company would attempt to make money at the expense a social class. Misandry, which is what you are selling is disgusting and should be condemned by all people of good will. I do not find these eGreetings cute, funny, entertaining or in any other sense appropriate. They are just stupid and abusive.
I would also like to bring to your attention the fact that you may be in violation of your own Terms of Service (TOS) agreement.
I believe you are in violation of these four items in your TOS under the heading of Acceptable Use Policy.
*QUOTE:
"The following conduct is prohibited on the service:
sending harassing, abusive, or threatening messages;
sending obscene or pornographic messages or images;
sending defamatory or libelous messages;
sending messages in furtherance of unlawful, criminal, or fraudulent activity;
*END QUOTE
I would like to point out to you that encouraging murder as the animation titled; "All Men Do Is Whine"
where smothering someone with a pillow is suggested is probably illegal. I would advise your company to stop doing this along with the rest of your asinine and puerile misandrous messages.
Thank you for your time."
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"Thank you for your time." Luek, I am still laughing. You were very correct and right to the point.
Mine was not so polite.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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Post yours Dan! Let's see it.
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"Post yours Dan! Let's see it."
Tom, I was just about to say the same thing!
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This is what they replied to me:
Thank you for contacting eGreetings.com. This is an acknowledgement that
we've received your email.
Your satisfaction is important to us. We appreciate your patience, and
assure you that we will reply directly to your email as quickly as we
can, usually within 48 hours.
In the meantime, you may find the answer to your question in the
Customer Service pages of our website, at
http://www.egreetings.com/customer/topfive.pd.
Here are some of the questions answered there:
I am a paid member; why can't I sign in?
I previously registered as a free member of eGreetings.com; why can't I
sign in?
I've forgotten my password; how do I retrieve it?
How do I join to become a paid member?
How much does membership cost?
What do I get if I join?
Why are you charging a membership fee?
How do I join without a credit card?
What is a Group Membership and how do I add one to my account?
Thank you for choosing eGreetings.com.
eGreetings.com Customer Service
I am still laughing , I wonder when they read it, if they will be so nice.
I will try and find it, but if its not in my sent items, I wont have it, since they emailed through their own currier.
But I will paraphrase in my next post if I can remember exactly what I said.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday May 28, @02:34PM EST (#12)
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I wrote:
"Where do you get your ideas for some of these E-cards, from the Amazon, "All Men Must Die" alliance? Somehow if the genders were reversed, I don't think those cards would fly."
I remember when I was in the service, some of the cards at the PX were very misandric as well.
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One thing we should remember is that these services are set up to get our email addresses so they can sell them in turn or to find ways to send junk mail.
Okay, my mail is not in my file, so I will try to replicate my email.
"Nice fuking site you have here. You know its people like you that prove more and more that domestic violence is committed by women against men just as much as the other way around.
You people are sick individuals with the morals of a Nazi".
My email was more venomous I think as I was angrier at the time. Next time I will keep a copy.
I just didnt feel like being mr. nice guy today, sorry if this upsets some of you. I am much more nicer with individual people big corperations are a big problem for men's rights.
As it was incited in the book "Spreading Misandry" half the problem is the fact that no one complains about the Misandry against men, this is why it continues. Men are the safe targets.
They can say "well it just proves how violent and abusive men are , just look at what he said" I will respond with, "that arguement is so old and tired its like a squashed turtle crossing the highway. It was YOU who posted this shit first, so go fuk yourself and take a look in the mirror and see who the real monster is." If they file charges, I will use Marc's idea and present both sexes as the pillow smotherer and see what a jury thinks about it. And I wont forget their rules. Apperently these people dont think men are human or they didnt read their own rules when writing them down. Either way "fuking idiots" is an appropiate label for these people.
Someone should be sending this to VAWA as I have a email from a senator stating that VAWA is used to protect men as well.
I know I know, but its worth a try, and document everything that is transmitted between you and whoever.
I would do this but Im not a US cit.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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Excellent response. I have expressed my own opinion to these misandric lapdogs of Satan but it ain't half a good as this one. Keep it up Dan!
RED KEV
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Has anyone been able to read Wendy's column on related issues, its pretty good.
Time to Speak Out
Tuesday, May 28, 2002
By Wendy McElroy
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men [and women] to do nothing" — Edmund Burke.
Our society is undergoing a cultural change from political correctness to a respect for true diversity. In this shift, individuals matter because culture changes one person at a time. Speak out. Stand up for the values that have been ravaged by PC feminism: freedom of speech, parental control of children, the rights of men and the ability to rise through merit alone.
Each day offers opportunities to transform the culture. When a friend launches into a male-bashing diatribe, remind her that she's talking about your husband or son...and object. When a co-worker loses a deserved promotion because of affirmative action, give him moral support. When public schools teach your child values you abhor, complain to the school board.
But be prepared to argue because political correctness will die as it lived — kicking and screaming ad hominem abuse as a substitute for arguments. If you defend your husband, you may be called anti-woman. If you protest affirmative action, you'll be slurred as a racist. If you don't want gay teachers "coming out" in school at taxpayers' expense, you'll be labeled homophobic.
The first step in arguing effectively is to ask yourself a key question in advance: "What do I want out of this exchange?"
Before interrupting your friend or challenging your child's teacher, pause and decide what you wish to accomplish. In talking to a teacher, your goal might be to have your child excused from an objectionable reading assignment. Keep this specific goal in mind and do not let the conversation wander or deteriorate into bickering.
If the goal has been achieved, then stop talking. The ideal end to any argument is for the other person to acknowledge error, praise your brilliance and beg forgiveness. That won't happen.
Instead, when you have accomplished your purpose, leave...either physically or by dropping the subject.
In defining your goal, be realistic. "To convince the other person" is a commonly adopted goal but it is usually an unrealistic one. Why? Because convincing the other person is out of your control and failing to do so can result from nothing more than bad circumstances.
During a 15-minute coffee break or at a loud party with constant interruptions, you are not likely to change anyone's opinion. But you might change her behavior. For example, if you firmly object to a girlfriend saying "all men are idiots," then she may well avoid making similar statements in your presence in the future. If others join in, the peer pressure may make her behavior change in a more general way.
The circumstances you should consider when defining your goal include:
— Where will the exchange take place?
— How much time will you have?
— What is your level of knowledge on this subject?
— How are you feeling — e.g., do you have a headache?
— Is the other person reasonable enough to listen?
— Do you have something to lose — e.g., in out-arguing a boss?
Try to make circumstances favor your goal. For example, don't challenge your male-bashing friend's in her home where she can reply with justification, "I'll say whatever I want in my own parlor." Do so in a public place or at your place. In first speaking with a teacher, do so in private because a public challenge could make her stubborn. It is always possible to "go public" if a private consultation does not work.
Even in good circumstances, an obstacle to achieving your goal will be the intimidation tactics the other person may use against you: you are anti-woman, racist, homophobic, etc.
Generally speaking, these tactics fall into two broad categories:
Psychologizing. The person attempts to intimidate you emotionally. For example, you contradict a diatribe about how "men only want one thing" by pointing out that the men in your life aren't like that. The speaker responds, "Why are you so threatened by honesty about sex?" The ground has just shifted away from your factual objection onto speculation about what is wrong with your psychology.
Don't let her get away with this: calmly repeat your objection and make her deal with it. Ask her, "Do you think your son fits that description? How about your next-door neighbor?" If she won't budge from analyzing your psychological inadequacy, then turn the tables. Inquire, "Why can't you answer my question? Why are you so threatened by having to argue your position? Is it that weak?"
Intellectualizing. The person attempts to intimidate you intellectually. For example, in the Q&A of a university class, you question whether gender is really "socially constructed": that is, you argue that urges such as motherhood are biologically based, not a matter of social indoctrination. The professor replies, "I assume you have Dr. X's essay on this question in the October '96 issue of Snob's Sophistry Journal?" Of course, you haven't. Now the focus shifts onto your intellectual inadequacies and away from the question you raised.
Stand your ground. Insist upon your right to advance an opinion on a matter affecting your life and demand a straight answer.
Good women must not let PC feminism continue to affect our culture. Speak out.
Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists.com. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the forthcoming anthology Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.
Respond to the Writer
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I think the people who log onto this board should email her and also pass this around "if legally possible" and ask them to email it etc...
Thanking Wendy for this is a good idea. WE should praise those who greater us.
I also dont think we should resort to making or demonizing women just yet. But what we should be doing is pointing out its harmful effects.
I wanted to repeat this before with the "enough"
thread. But its typical of "crises centers" to show these types of films and have been doing so for over 20 years, they have been demonizing me to women who are hurt and upset, they have been installing doctrines of hatred towards men instead of giving them counsiling and the help they need. Is it any wonder women feel this way? Its like a ripple in the pond, it spreads and spreads and spreads. Until it becomes a "culture" of people who hate men for no real reason. Trust me when I say this. The films and books and pamplets given out at these centers are not serving the victims any good. They only perpetuate hate and violence and try to maintain "victim status" on people for the rest of their lives. This is good money, like a Tobbacco company trying to keep customers, thats how sick it is. I am not slamming SAFE by any means, so Far SAFE is the only one I support. But telling someone they are going to be a victim for the rest of their lives is more harmful then they actual event in 99% of the cases.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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Someone should be sending this to VAWA as I have a email from a senator stating that VAWA is used to protect men as well.
Dan, who's the senator? It might be good to write to him or her and cc eGreetings.
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"Dan, who's the senator? It might be good to write to him or her and cc eGreetings"
I will confirm this !!
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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You can start sending it to all of them as far as Im concerned.
But start with John Ashcroft.
I will have to wait for a response on which senator it was.
But maybe this is a good idea to mass email this site to media, and a bunch of other people who you can think of, we should not let this die just yet.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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I have my original and a reply from a human named Jenny who seems like a nice girl.
"Hello ,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
I am sorry that you were offended. Thank you for taking the time to
write to us about the content of our site. I have passed your concerns
on to our creative and content teams.
Your input and satisfaction matter to us, so feel free to contact us
with any future concerns.
Thank you,
Jenny
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
Original Message Follows:
-------------------------
This is mine below:
"You people have some fucked up ideas about how people should treat
eachother. Your company proves more and more that Domestic Violence is
equally perpetrated by both sexes"
Then I added the link so they new what I was talking about , I was pretty mad when I wrote it, but it doesnt seem all that bad, but my point was made and I shamed them while pointing out men are also abused, hope it was effective.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday May 28, @06:15PM EST (#17)
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This is what I got back..........wow......
Hello ,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your comments and
suggestions! Customer satisfaction is very important to us and we will
give your comments serious consideration.
Feel free to contact us with any future concerns or questions. We love
to hear from our customers!
Thank you,
Chris
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
Original Message Follows:
-------------------------
Message Text:
Where do you get your ideas for some of these E-cards, from the "All Men
Must Die" alliance?
Somehow I don't think those things would fly if you reversed the
genders.
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
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I just received my response, if you want to call it that. It looks like the "customer service" people there just cut and paste from a template or something.
-----------------------------------------------
Hello ,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your comments and
suggestions! Customer satisfaction is very important to us and we will
give your comments serious consideration.
Feel free to contact us with any future concerns or questions. We love
to hear from our customers!
Thank you,
Liza
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
Original Message Follows:
-------------------------
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)
Message Text:
I was directed to a specific e-greeting card titled "All Men Do Is
Whine" by a mens' rights website. I find this type of blatant
man-hating repulsive and unnecessary, as well as NOT funny. What would
happen if every instance of the word "man" in the e-greeting was
replaced with the word "women" or "blacks"? Do you think people would
laugh then? Obviously not! Yet somehow when violence is directed
towards men, everyone thinks it's funny.
I'm not a member of e-greetings.com, and now I'm glad I'm not. I will
spread word about this website's male-bashing to mens' rights groups so
they all know not to visit this sexist site. Good day.
------------------------------------------------
This kind of stuff pisses me off. If you're going to reply, then reply to the original f*cking message. Otherwise don't bother.
"Stereotypes are devices that save a biased person the trouble of learning."
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That was excelent, Subversive.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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I wonder if anyone knew that this was Phil Hartman's anniversory of his death.
Im pretty sure it is, which makes this thread an appt one.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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I wrote to them to say their ecard "that jokes about murdering men is incredibly sick and so are you people for distributing it." I then received their form response:
Hello ,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your comments and suggestions! Customer satisfaction is very important to us and we will give your comments serious consideration.
Feel free to contact us with any future concerns or questions. We love to hear from our customers!
Thank you,
Scott W
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
I then wrote back:
Dear Scott W:
I look forward to hearing what further consideration you give to my comments.
Do you think jokes about killing men are funny? Do you have jokes about killing gays, or women, or blacks, or Jews? Please let me know. I'm very curious.
It'll be interesting if I get the same form email again.
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I already heard back from them as follows:
Hello Thomas,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
We're sorry! Please send us the URL (web address, such as http://www.egreetings.com/display.pd?L0=61&L1=502& L2=1047&L3=50757&L4=30
0504&L5=0&bfrom=1&prodnum=3023744)
for the particular card.
If we can be of any other service to you please contact us.
Thank you,
Allen
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
I responded:
Dear Allen,
The URL is http://www.msn.egreetings.com/display.pd?L0=61&L1= 502&L2=1040&L3=50657&L4=0&L5=0&bfrom=1&prodnum=302 0221.
The card states, "Men are always whining about how we are suffocating them. Personally. I think if you can hear them whining. You're not pressing hard enough on the pillow."
One way to see the offensiveness of this card is by replacing the word "men" with "women," "blacks," or "Jews." I have seen reproductions of cartoons circulated by German Nazis vilifying Jews and they bear a disquieting resemblance to the type of "humor" that you present with this eGreeting. Please consider removing the eGreeting, and any others like it. And please try the gender-switch test in the future if you think that an eGreeting may be offensive or, even in some subtle way, incite or joke about violence. Replacing the words "men" or "boys" with "women" or "girls" will often provide a great deal of insight.
Thank you for your further consideration. Please let me know what you decide to do about this eGreeting.
I'll keep y'all posted.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 29, @02:57PM EST (#27)
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Thanks, Thomas. I'm anxious to hear what they have to say. I think you articulated the race analogy very well. Plus, you actually pulled it off without sounding sexist or racist yourself! Great job....
hobbes
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I just received this
Hello Thomas,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
I am working on this situation at this time if you could please tell me
were you located this greeting, because the link is no longer valid.
I am sorry for any offence this has caused you.
Thank you,
Allen
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
I told them where to find the link on this site and on ifeminists. I checked and for some reason the link I sent them didn't bring up the eGreeting, though the link from this site, MANN, still works.
It looks as though they're giving this some thought. If so, then good for them if they withdraw the eGreeting and think more carefully in the future about such offensive eGreetings. If they do remove it, let's fire off a few emails thanking them. We'll see...
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Since they're working on this at this time, does anyone have links to other misandrist eGreetings on their site? I might as well point them out now.
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Good work, this proves that some of the things done here work!
We each have our own styles, and thats good, because it shows the numbers.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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I just received this email from Egreetings.com
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
We are still working on this situation, I will notify you when they have
corrected this problem.
If I can be of any other service to you please contact us.
Thank you,
Allen
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
I replied:
Thanks for keeping me posted, Allen. I appreciate your efforts and look forward to hearing your resolution.
I'll keep y'all posted.
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The following is my quick email to them. Do you think I was too subtle?
"You are misandric sexist pigs. All over the news are stories of abusive
women murdering and sexually mutilating their husbands and sons and
then crying, "I'm the real victim." In the midst of this war on males you
have the stupidity to promote cards advocating the murder of males.
You should be the next victims of these feminazi monsters. You deserve it."
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Yes, you were to subtle, perhaps a "where do you live?" in your next one.
Just kidding.
But I will mention that Christina Hoff Sommers or one of her associates were given bomb threats throughout her book tour.
Andrea Dorkin comes to mind as my first suspect, but "correlation doesnt equal causation" or something like that.
I know I feel threatened sometimes when I see new discriminatory laws. Hopefully the men's movement won't have to be radicals.
And In my opinion, I think a large lobby with less radicals is where its at. Combining women as much as we can, I mean whatever way we can win women over to see the destructive path that this unbalance is creating can be key.
In ju-jitsu what works against you can also work for you.
But telling those dumb fucks off felt good. This is a step towards a better world in which to live.
We will have to listen to women, in hopes they will listen to us.
We will have to combine many, many strategies of battling this sexism.
Try to rely on your intuition and look ahead.
Adapt it to your life, make company with it, that is how to be rid of it and to defeat it.
Know which tactic to use on which people, will take some thought. I will work on this.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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My email and response:
------
I was disappointed to see the E-card on your site entitled "All Men Do Is Whine". I suggest you apply the acid test of reversing the genders in this card and then testing for "humour" and acceptability. I think it's fairly obvious that society and females in particular would never tolerate humour about killing women.
This sort of hypocrisy is sickening. I truly hope that any male member of your staff who deals with this complaint or sees it has the self respect and courage to challenge this anti-male hatred within the organisation they work for.
I can assure them that their female colleagues would never tolerate it. Please do the decent thing and remove this "greeting". Alternatively,
let's have a "funny" card about killing women. No? thought not........
Response:
----
Hello ,
Thank you for contacting Egreetings.com Customer Service.
We are aware that this particular greeting has offended some of our customers, and we are working with our creative staff to resolve this
issue. We apologize if you have been offended in any way by our offering this greeting on our site, and we hope that you will continue to use
our service in the future.
Thank you,
Bill B
Your Customer Care Agent
Egreetings.com
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We are aware that this particular greeting has offended some of our customers, and we are working with our creative staff to resolve this issue.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at these meetings. There's probably a bunch of feminists, who think that we are all a bunch of whining losers and that we should all be smothered. There's probably a bunch of men, who are sick to death of the feminists, but who lack the cahones (how's that spelled?) to say or do anything. There may be a man, who will speak out against anti-male hatred and soon find himself falsely accused of creating a hostile environment or maybe of sexual harassment or sexual assault. There may be a woman, who will speak out for truth and decency, and who will be labeled a dupe of the patriarchy and will soon be driven out of the company. And there's probably a company executive, who is only concerned with covering his or her ass. What a circus!
Then again, maybe they're all dealing with this fairly, honestly, and rationally. There's a first time for everything.
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Just a thought about these greeting cards. There are 11 cards in the "Love Stinks" category. 7 can be said to be fairly neutral. There are none that are anti-women.There are 4 that are anti-men. They are
All Men Do is Whine
Prince Charming - Yeah Right which shows a singles ad by a man and offers alternative explanations, for example, where it says "quiet conversation" is interpreted as "can't put a sentence together"
Welcome Back - apparently welcomes a woman back to the singles scene. Shows 3 men. Stinky, Slobby and Steve. Steve is dressed as a woman.
Mr Cheesy Pick Up Guy - You are invited to slap, throw a drink over and kick him in the crutch.
It is clear that all who have written have got replies like "your opinion has been noted" and no change on the website. There is a way to combat this, although it might involve nasty letters from lawyers. Set up a website called say msnhatesmen.com and put the 4 ecards on with the sexes reversed. Some would be easy to convert, some would require either artistic or writing skills. You would get away with it for a while. (You have to give an address and/or credit card to get the website and you could be traced by that). When you get a nasty letter then you could take the pirated ecards down or not if you want to challenge them. In any case the complaint about the ecards could remain on the website for all to see.
Raymond Cuttill
http://www.cyberManbooks.com
http://www.menshour.com
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How about e-mailing the sponsors of this site.
Particularly Progressive Insurance and Coolsavings.com? Hit eGreetings where it really hurts, in the pocket book! eGreetings.com might actually think it is cool to get negative feedback for viewers of their site but they probably don't think it is so damn cool to mess with their sponsors.
I just sent off feedback to these two sponsors and will let you know what they have to say.
Progressive's feedback site is at:
https://www.progressive.com/mail/mailfeed.asp
Coolsavings feedback site is at:
http://www104.coolsavings.com/scripts/feedback.asp ?SessionID=796443601&Page=/scripts/main_coupons.as p
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I just wrote to them saying, I'm wondering if your company has come to a decision regarding this misandrist Egreeting. Please let me know.
If I don't receive a satisfactory reply soon, I'll then write to their sponsors and cc Egreetings.com.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 30, @06:24PM EST (#42)
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While the card isn't nice, you can't compare it to killing of women and children. Also, the emails you all posted that you wrote to egreetings were totally childish. No wonder you got the automatic responses. When you write words like "Fuck" and "shit" and comparing them to "Nazi's" you DO sound like a bunch of whiners, and that was what the card was all about. You just proved that men are huge whiners and more like women then men.
Maybe next time you all will check your language at the door and write an intelligent email that will get you someplace and get their attention.
I personally like egreeting and use it once in a while. You most likely are going to make the card more popular because I am sure you are sending the card to people no matter what you say in your message, the card gets another "hit" and I am sure that is good for egreetings and their sponsors.
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Rather than giving it what it wants, let's ignore the troll.
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by Anonymous User on Friday May 31, @12:53AM EST (#47)
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While I believe you made some legitimate points regarding childishness, language, and the comparison to Nazis, I also disagree with just as much of what you said.
When you say "you can't compare it to killing of women and children" you display the very kind of mindset that makes this card a legitimate target of protest.
This attitude permeates society not in one monolithic message but from a thousand different sources, and so you can only fight it when it pops up in one of its "insignificant" manifestations such as this card.
It's like a death from a thousand cuts. A thousand small, individually petty messages saying that killing men isn't a matter for outrage or concern, while other messages emphasize that the killing of women and children is.
This attitude has real world consequences: when for example, there is far more concern for the women of Afghanistan being made to wear Burqas, and being denied education and other various rights than for the thousands of men and boys who were massacred, tortured, maimed and beaten under the Taliban. They are hardly mentioned at all. This bias is also reflected in the way aid is distributed.
Domestically, there is far more money and effort going into protecting women from hearing a dirty joke than from protecting men from death or injury in the workplace.
When a woman kills a man she is often set free on her unsubstantiated claims of abuse, or some other unlikely excuse.
Why don't people immediately recognize this bias, and protest? Precisely because they too have the attitude "you can't compare it to killing of women and children".
As other posters have pointed out, a card advocating killing women, children, or a person of another race wouldn't be seen as acceptable. It is this fact that makes the card significant, because it points out the double standard involved: that a message of hate and violence is acceptable to society as long as the target is men.
On the other hand, I agree with your points about the way the protest emails were written.
There is a way to express strong disapproval and protest without resorting to swearing or abuse.
For a start, it actually weakens your position: abusive emails can be written off as the worthless outpouring of cranks, whereas strongly (but appropriately) worded emails of protest with a strong argument behind them have a much better chance of being taken seriously.
Think about it. The boss is presented with a print out of "F*** you's" or a print out of well argued protest letters, which register strong diaproval with the card; which do you think he will take more seriously?
Comparing people to Nazis is also likely to have your message ignored (because the comparison is overblown and sounds shrill), even when your point is legitimate.
It may be emotionally satisfying to vent, but you can do that to friends, either in person or on-line before you write your well written (and thus more effective) protest to the company.
It is a common tactic to dismiss men voicing their concerns by saying they are "whining." This is because society tacitly approves only women complaining (so that someone else might address and fix their concerns) but expects men to keep their mouths closed and fix their own problems.
The problem is, you can only adress your own individual concerns, the ones that are in your individual power to fix, in this way. Issues that affect men in general at a societal level can only be adressed by men voicing their concerns and grouping together to address the problem.
Writing off men's concerns as "whining" is just a tactic to dismiss those concerns without addressing them, by shaming the men into shutting up; but knowing that this tactic is often used, why play into their hands by voicing protests that are shrill and abusive and often short on real arguments, which are all the more easy to dismiss as mere whining?
A well written message of protest registering strong disaproval (without resorting to swearing, shrillness, or abuse) backed by sound arguments is the way to avoid being dismissed as a "whiner" and to have your points taken seriously.
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Beautifully written, whoever you are.
BTW, I wrote a letter that didn't cuss, compare anyone to Nazis, etc. and I got the same auto-response. It has nothing to do with the tone of a letter. It's automatic.
Also, although I don't care for the cussing and comparison to Nazis, I don't have a problem with it as long as there are also letters that use more calm and civil approaches. In fact I think the combination of them can be effective.
In any case, the anger is totally justified.
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although I don't care for the cussing and comparison to Nazis, I don't have a problem with it as long as there are also letters that use more calm and civil approaches. In fact I think the combination of them can be effective.
I agree. I believe, however, that comparisons to German Nazis should be made, when they are supported. The similarities, between the Egreeting that we are discussing and much German Nazi humor about Jews, is marked and people should be made aware of it. Though he was a monster, Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Reich Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, was a clever man when it came to propaganda. The steady dehumanizing of a hate-targeted group can be extremely effective over time. I think that, when feminists and society in general do this to men, the similarities to German (to distinguish from femi-) Nazi propaganda should be pointed out.
I have studied Nazis for years and the similarities between mainstream feminism and German Nazism are broad, profound, and even defining. We should not shy from making this fact clear. In time, more and more people will begin to see it.
A good post, however, Anon.
P.S. If you keep contributing, please get a handle.
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"In any case, the anger is totally justified."
Fine and dandy, and maybe even right. But what about the local workers, that were inundated with all this email today. Maybe this was funny for them, all the swearing and whining. Maybe they showed this around the office, and office that has never before thought of it being wrong to de-humanize or murder men. "Your company has a pretty fucked up idea of how people should treat eachother" may have been the lunch hour talk, maybe even the dinner chat, maybe those asses are still talking about it, laughing in their little cubicles, but maybe one of them thought for a second, well, maybe its not so nice. Sure Im all for fomralities, and niceness, but dont assume because your punctuation was better than mine that it is more remembered. Curt Kobaine gave everyone the finger, they gave him platinum records.
Fucking Unbelievable
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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"Sure Im all for fomralities, and niceness, but dont assume because your punctuation was better than mine that it is more remembered."
I don't make such an assumption at all. Again, I think the combination is useful. I do think on average that calm voices are more effective, but that is just my opinion and that also is just an average. Angry, pissed off voices are needed too, and I didn't say they weren't.
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Angry, pissed off voices are needed too
You bet they are. For one thing, angry, pissed off voices grab people's attention, help them realize that there's trouble brewing, and often get them to pay more attention to the calm voices.
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For one thing, angry, pissed off voices grab people's attention, help them realize that there's trouble brewing, and often get them to pay more attention to the calm voices.
I guess that's three things. Damned higher math :-)
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You know what 'anonymous' since you dont have the guts to post your name, you can go fuck yourself.
The feminists have made mutimillionaire carrests out of whinning. And guess what, this is whats going to change the status quo. Maybe you think its all right to de-humanize humans. In which case I have a few words for you you FUCKing SHIThead NAZI.
Suck my curved dick.
Thats right I said it, your a punk, and if you switch the names to Jew's or Coons maybe it's not so funny.
Am I to much of a wimp to take it, yes you figured me out, I want to cry on your shoulder right now.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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"You can't compare it to killing of women and children."
I'm not sure how many people noticed this, but our Anonymous Friend just tried to pull a very subtle sleight-of-hand over on us.
Nobody here is comparing the eCard to the actual killing of women and children. We're comparing it to the nonexistent eCard which MAKES FUN OF KILLING WOMEN.
For our Anonymous Friend's benefit, I'll post the following lesson on reality:
eCard = fantasy
actual killing of women and children = reality
(Notice, however, that our Anonymous Friend fails to mention the ACTUAL killing of men. I guess they're not important, eh?)
Likewise, the eCard couldn't be compared to the ACTUAL killing of men.
It's apples and oranges. (Of course, our Anonymous Friend knows this, but simply tried to mix two issues so as to avoid serious debate.)
The problem is in men having to bear the brunt of the "humor" in those eCards, while women don't. Where is the eCard which makes fun of women being killed? It doesn't exist.
Why not, Anonymous Friend? Don't you think that there should also be a card which makes fun of women being killed?
Please don't try to convolute the debate by inserting phrases like "you can't compare it to killing women and children". Nobody is doing that. We're talking about a lack of fictional eCards WHICH MAKE FUN OF WOMEN BEING KILLED.
If you're gonna have a card which makes fun of men being killed, then let's be fair and have one which makes fun of women being killed.
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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It's apples and oranges. (Of course, our Anonymous Friend knows this, but simply tried to mix two issues so as to avoid serious debate.)
This is a standard, sleazy, feminist trick: Use words similar to those used by a man to insinuate or claim that he said something that he, in fact, did not say. Then attack the statement that the man didn't make. One of our favorite posters on this site uses this ploy as a matter of course.
Another tactic is to claim, if the man strenuously objects to the distortion or outright lie, that the man isn't being nice and behaving in the way that civilized people behave in debates. People can forfeit their rights. Note the loss of rights, to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, by convicted felons, who are imprisoned. If you lie about someone, you forfeit your right to civil treatment by that person. If you're going to claim that someone has said or believes something, then it's your obligation to be certain that the person has said or does believe that thing.
Let's not hesistate to point it out, when feminists use these slick, sleazy tricks.
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You are precisely the type of person who gives women a bad name - so it is alright to kill men and not women heh? You should be ashamed.
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Trivializing complaints and blaming the victim is a favorite tactic of abusers to bind with words where force will not avail; it's a tactic to bully their victims into silence by calling them "weak," when in reality, asserting one's self when one feels treated unfairly is a sign of strength and well-adjustment, while true weakness leads one to tolerate such abuse out of denial of a sense of helplessness, and also to fear doing anything to stop it. There's no doubt that these are hate-messages, so there's no excuse for not standing up against it; it's clearly over the line.
Did you SEE the other cards? Being a man of science, let's put it to the test; imagine if the tables were turned, what would result. Of course this is a moot argument, since no one would even THINK of putting out such hateful messages against women.
There's one here
http://www.msn.egreetings.com/display.pd?L0=61&L1= 502&L2=1040&L3=50657&L4=0&L5=0&bfrom=1&prodnum=301 5198
That shows actual violence against men, including the type on the Progressive.com commercial.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 30, @07:07PM EST (#44)
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I come to this site because I agree with the basic premise of the argument – men are fair targets in the media. I like to check out posts on this site, and enjoy sharing ideas with like-minded men.
But jeez-oh-man, I’ve got to say the amount of effort being put against this thread is driving me bat-shit nuts.
Okay guys, let’s start out with the Irony Factor: we’ve got a bunch of guys whining about a greeting card – a damn GREETING CARD – that makes fun of whiny men. Can anyone say, “perpetuate the stereotype”?
Then let’s move on to the boycott idea. Face it, men buy greeting cards about as often as women buy Hustler. What’s next on our Revolutionary Agenda? A unilateral male boycott against tampon manufacturers? I’m sure they tremble.
C’mon fellas, let’s get some perspective on this issue. I looked at the card and yes, it’s in bad taste. But, guys... IT’S A DAMN JOKE. The fact that some of you seem to take the card so seriously is just a sign that you’re taking yourselves too seriously. Unless you lighten up and figure out that it’s okay to laugh once in a while, this nascent men’s movement will be more of a joke than the damn card you’re so fired up about.
There are plenty of big and legitimate targets out there that deserve attention (e.g. anybody care to ask why men die years earlier than women? Why a man is more likely to be on death row than a woman? Why a man doesn’t have gender-based affirmative action in the workplace like a woman?).
In light of the real issues we face, why the heck are you hell-bent on an inconsequential, lame greeting card?
Bottom line: get some perspective.
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All the anti-male aspects of our society that you mention are part of the same problem -- misandry, hatred of men. I'm not terribly concerned about this card, though it does strongly resemble some of the dehumanizing "humor" used by the German Nazis against the Jews. Nevertheless, I do see this as an opportunity to get people to wake up a bit.
If we can get people to open their eyes a little to the problem of anti-male hatred, then we will have accomplished a small amount to combat the society-wide disease of misandry.
If anyone is interested in seeing racist, Nazi "humor" that is similar to what Egreetings has about men, you can go to the White Aryan Resistance site, and click on the Racist Cartoons link on the left. (They're proud to call themselves "racists.") The dehumanizing, vilifying characteristics are fundamentally the same as what we are protesting.
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"If we can get people to open their eyes a little to the problem of anti-male hatred, then we will have accomplished a small amount to combat the society-wide disease of misandry."
I agree. The anger is not at the card in isolation but at the card in its context and what the care symbolizes.
I was once in traffic court when the judge said "Gentlemen please remove your hats." I borrowed someone else's hat and put it on. When the bailiff demanded I remove it I said I would only if it applied to everyone. Some people, even some men's rights activists, find that trivial. I don't. It reflects the very same bias that discriminates against in court, the selective service, health funding, etc. etc. etc. And the socialized chivalry and silence of the men in that courtroom is the same chivalry and silence that allows the widescale discrimination against men everywhere else. Small, symbolic battles are critical tools of leverage in this fight, where we are outnumbered and outshouted everywhere we turn. The small battles send a loud message each time they arise. The e'card here is just one more example of such a battle.
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Anon - Perhaps you can tell us a bit about the activism you have been doing lately?
It's far easier to criticise than to take action. Let's hear what your actions have been?
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To Anon Poster msg No 44
I couldn’t disagree more with your post. If you’ve read this site for a while, you should have seen letter writing and complaints ranging from Sofa adverts all the way through to Anti Boy stickers in vending machines and anti-male Domestic Violence campaigns. I can only liken it to the “think global, act local” slogan pioneered by political lobby groups like Greenpeace. Bit by bit, on every front, your voice needs to be heard. Sure, this greeting appears a minor complaint to some people, but how about adding up the sum of the parts. The anti male message is incessant and pervasive. You might also have noticed the “bigger” issues that we do get involved in. There are certain tireless individuals on this site who tackle legislative change in the areas of Father’s Rights, the Draft and who frequently write to Senators and decision makers. It’s a team effort and it requires activism on every front.
Why have feminists and female activists been so successful? Because they left no stone unturned in rooting out real or perceived discrimination. Come to the UK and watch TV adverts, sitcoms or soaps and watch in awe at the constant barrage of “all men are idiots” or rapists or violent. Witness the frequent outcries over adverts which feature lingerie models, or the complaints on consumer programs about “minor” perceived discriminations. What about the rewriting of our language to become PC, or gender neutral descriptions. All of these things were dismissed as minor at first, only to become major and finally reality.
The Advertising Standards Authority here in the UK frequently makes public complaint topics and numbers. I’m always struck how they’ll report that 9 or 28 or 122 women complained about a particular advert. I cannot believe that that type of “whining” does not have an impact on the types of advertising that become “acceptable” and hence, what we’re subjected to. To give a single example, a law firm in England ran adverts about divorcing couples (encouraging them to use this particular law firm’s services). The adverts were aimed at men and women. The advert directed at women showed a weeping woman with the slogan “All men are bastards” under it. The male equivalent said “She’s a bitch”. More complaints were received from women complaining that the advert suggested all women were bitches than an advert which explicitly stated “all men are bastards”. The ads were pulled.
Going back to the original point, the very reason women and some men accept these cards/greetings is because for men to complain would appear churlish or “whining”. I mean, come on, how can a man have *anything* to complain about in the grand scale of things? So we take it, stoically, maybe we even deserve it. We don’t tolerate these types of things about women because in addition to the conditioning we’re subjected to about protecting women anyway, female activists of many types have made that sort of humour taboo. I cannot understand anyone supporting that double standard.
You ask why don’t we concentrate on bigger issues like the number of men on death row. To me, they’re directly related. Men can take it, women should be protected. Call it chivalry, double standards, whatever. The fact is that women can commit the same crimes as men but not be subject to the same penalties, and believe me, it’s not all female juries and judges sending more men than women to Death Row. It’s society and its tolerance of that double standard. While you labour under the misapprehension that these complaints are trivial and perpetuate the myth that men are whiners, I’ll continue to believe that your attitude is equally hindering to men’s activism.
To those who advocate avoiding the use of profanity or Nazi comparisons, I have some sympathy with that view. However, people like Dan wear their hearts on their sleeves, speak their minds and I have bucket loads more respect for these guys than infrequent anonymous posters. I also don’t want to reduce it to the levels of “they do it so we can too”, but when you consider that feminists have phoned in bomb and death threats to places where Christina Hoff Sommers might speak for example, the odd swear word seems pretty trivial.
Finally, as for “well written" and "sound arguments", I would generally agree with that. However, there’s also a school of thought that says “the greeting offended me... and I registered my complaint”. I could have treated it as a pseudo-academic exercise and reasoned them into cowering submission, but that really could be construed as overkill and the work of a zealot.
Get some perspective? There’s enough above to be going on with.....
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"Bottom line: get some perspective.
Well, you've gotten a couple of different perspectives, but I'll add one more.
I've been reading and hearing insulting bullshit like this card day in and day out for most of my forty-two years. I shrugged it off. Well, I figure I've given women enough time to get the giddiness of "empowerment" out of their systems. Time to treat them like adults.
I'm sick and tired of nonsense like this and don't intend to put up with it anymore. High on list of priorities for the men's movement is defending my and our dignity, even at the cost of courtesy.
Have you ever in your entire life told a woman she was suffocating you?
Thought not.
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Begin Uncontrollable Rant
I really don't have much of a problem with this card. It's kinda clever and gives an unexpected punchline. It reworks an old, stupid stereotype, but lots of jokes do. It's insulting and offensive to the butt of the joke, but lots of jokes are.
The problem is that damn near everyone involved with this card will deny their own common sense and pretend that that it isn't insulting to men. It is. It's not playful teasing. It's not good-natured needling. It's just mean.
I have a dream.
I dream that one day major cardmakers won't put out this kind of joke because it's just plain rude. It will be put out by some small company known for "quirky" cards. Most women will pass it up. Some will get it and send it to their friends, who will have a quiet, guilty chuckle and then hide the card away from their husband/boyfriend/lover simply because she knows he won't like it.
It's a small dream. But it starts with men standing up and saying, "Hey, I don't like this." Otherwise, how are women to know?
Then I wake up.
And the woman says, "You don't like it? Good!!! You deserve a little pain, you selfish bastard! Do you know how hard it is to be a woman. You've never had to endure the pain of childbirth or worry about having your lipstick on right! Yada yada yada...
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High on list of priorities for the men's movement is defending my and our dignity, even at the cost of courtesy.
You go, boy!
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You go, boy!
Don't you mean "You go, sir!"?
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You go, boy!
Don't you mean "You go, sir!"?
Chuckle. Just a little play on the ol' "You go, girl!"
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Firstly, could you obtain a user name? We get several anonymous posters, many of which are annoying, some of which are interesting, so it'd be nice to tell them apart.
Secondly, if you want us to debate on a new issue, submit an article or website for discussion. Right now this is the most interesting topic up for debate right now, so get used to it.
Thirdly, it's a damn joke that's offensive, we're permitted to tell Egreetings off when they post offensive things. Especially when something like that is only acceptable against men. It was tasteless and won't hurt anyone at Egreetings to know one of their cards is offensive.
Finally, have you posted on any of the other articles on here? Perhaps on the one on castration, or another "serious" issue? If you hate this thread, try distracting us instead of getting me to reply to you.
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Hey, crescentluna, where've you been? I've missed your contributions.
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Yeah, I thought you'd left us, crescent. It's great to hear from you again...
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Haven't gotten rid of me yet, guys. Went to boyfriend's house for awhile and more recently have been occupied with moving preparations [two weeks is current estimation, I'm keeping my fingers crossed]. Hopefully I'll still be active after moving, but I'm not sure what computer access I'll have. :P
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We are HUMAN.
I mean seriously, I do not think for a second that we are over reacting.
By the very fact that they do not have a sexist counter part to this, proves they can not sell it. I think we should take a picture of the company president and do the same thing, see what he or she thinks of that.
Remember this is about money, but by letting it stand, thats exactly what happens, it STANDS.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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"You know what 'anonymous' since you dont have the guts to post your name, you can go fuck yourself." and what else did you call me? A puke or something???????
Nice Dan.
You are the type of man that screw's up it for the rest of us. You are a whiner, you are nothing but a playground bully. Maybe you should check out an Anger Managment class. You really have underlying issues that you take out and express here. I don't think this is the right place to get out your anger. I thought this was a place to discuss, express, and disagree. Not a war zone. NICE DAN, YOU JUST CONTINUE YOUR CHILDISH NAME CALLING. IT WILL GET YOU FAR. Now, you look like a total idiot and I am sure you will come back swinging and whinning at me. But I won't be here to read it. I'm out of here.
My name is Matt. HAPPY?.......GOOD!
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Dan:
Your style is different from mine, but your anger is justified and you have a right to express it. I, for one, am glad you're here.
Matt:
Bye.
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Dear Matt:
Stop attempting to trivialize things people on this site talk about. Have you ever thought that maybe some of the people here have a right to bitch and complain? Uh oh, I said a dirty word!
Managing our anger, as well as many other factors, is what got us to this point in the first place. Women have been bitching (Uh oh, another dirty word! Those anger management classes must not be working) about anything that mildly "cramps their style", and I think a little return bitching is not only in order, but well past due.
This chivalry bullshit (Gee, I'm just a horrible typical white male sexist fascist homophobic pig today, arent I??) you're spouting is getting really old. Head over to the Ms. message boards, I'm sure they could use some chivalrous, a.k.a. "subservient", men over there to line up in their feminist shooting gallery.
Good riddance.
"Stereotypes are devices that save a biased person the trouble of learning."
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Deacon:
Oh, you nasty man.
:)
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"""Now, you look like a total idiot and I am sure you will come back swinging and whinning at me. But I won't be here to read it. I'm out of here.
My name is Matt. HAPPY?.......GOOD!"""
Well, as Truman once said, "if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen!"
Matt? Sure I just bet it is. More like Matilda or Maxine! Good bye anonymous or whomever you are today.
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Classic.
You know, its like someome throwing stones at your class house and then complaining you have broken glass everywhere.
You call me a bully, Im sorry, if you were hurt. Perhaps if you have read some of my other posts you would realize that I am a more complex man than just that. In fact, I have been trying to tell people that if things continue to get worse that the violence will be wide spread and severe.
YOu know why Matt? Its because men bottle their emotions for so long until, bang! It's to late.
You said you are never coming back here and thats to bad. Maybe you have somthing to offer.
But there is an Old Irish Saying and that is "Is This a Private Fight? Or can anyone get in?"
I choose to get into this fight, not because Im a bully on the school yard, but because Im sick of the BULLY on the schoolyard pushing everyone else around.
LOOK what we have accomplished. And soon we will refine our statements as to what is the most appropiate actions,
I think now, we should consider resending emails to this company to tell them that their consideration and removal of this perticular card has meant a great deal to us, we now feel "respected again".
A lot of people say "you have to earn respect" In truth this statement is very incomplete in many ways. A father can not expect his son to understand respect unless he shows the boy. Its like telling his son, if he wants to eat he will have to fish for it, but never shows his son how to fish.
Sometimes you have to fight for respect. And this may seem a silly example, but in the movie Dances With Wolves, the white girl was being raised by the natives, was picked on all the time by a bully until the girl snapped and stood up to the bully, I think her name was STands With Fists or something close to that. But until that day no one respected her, perhaps she earned it.
As for Thom, Deacon and Luek, thanks for supporting me and standing by me when I get your emials I will send you an eGreetings card to show my appreciation.
Seriously thanks, and its important to me that people realize I wear my heart on my sleave.
Maybe Matt can make another appearance and work this out.
Men are humans too.
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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I just got this "positive" response from Progressive Insurance about their sponsorship of the misandrous e-card in question.
"""Thank you for contacting Progressive and providing your feedback.
Progressive sponsors the "Love & Dating" content area on American
Greetings E-cards. Unfortunately, "Love Stinks" is a sub category within
this content area. We will be working with American Greetings E-cards to
exclude (sic!) the Love Stinks sub category from this media buy, as we can see how
it might be offensive to some people.
We appreciate you bringing this to our attention.
If we may be of further assistance, please contact us at
webmaster@progressive.com.
Sincerely,
Neil Mitro
Progressive Internet Service Specialist
http://www.progressive.com""""
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I just got this "positive" response from Progressive Insurance about their sponsorship of the misandrous e-card in question.
Maybe I'm missing something, but this does look rather positive to me. Good work, Luek. Our actions here will probably get some people thinking a little more clearly about anti-male hatred in our society.
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This is what I sent them, if they are considereing their removal of the ecard.
"It is to my understanding that your company is rethinking some of its cards, and specifically the hurtful one depicting the pillow smotherer.
I would like to thank you for doing this, I was upset when I first saw this and reacted harshly. Greeting cards are a good thing, killing people with pillows is not. Im sure that your company has extreme talant that can make up greeting cards that doesnt cheer the harming of Women or Men. Wanting to be treated as a human is not a crime for a man or a woman.
I dont want to seem like I am trying to dictate your company's policies, but please reflect on this and maybe you will see why I was upset. It is true that the Nazi's did this type of thing to the Jews pre world war two, maybe its doubtful that things will ever go that far who knows, but if you had ever been to Anne Franks house in Holland you might see that hatred is just hatred and anyone can be hurt by it. Thank you Dan Lynch, I await your response"
Dan Lynch: Martial Arts for the Modern World.
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Went to boyfriend's house for awhile and more recently have been occupied with moving preparations.
I certainly hope you won't be living in sin :-)
Seriously, it's good to have you back, if only for a while.
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