NCFM speaks at Torrance High School on DV to rebut feminist presentation to students

On May 13, 2008, National Coalition of Free Men members Marc Angelucci, Harry Crouch and Fred Sottile (also the Los Angeles rep of Fathers4Justice) were invited speakers at Torrance High School in Los Angeles County, where they spoke before 30 members of the student body government about male victims of domestic violence and other issues. This was a counter to the presentation previously given to the students by a feminist domestic violence shelter organization that distorted the issue and falsely told the students 95% of domestic violence is male-on-female, a myth that is not supported by any current credible data at all.

After the feminist presentation, a father of one of the students was outraged by the misinformation given to his son, so he contacted NCFM, who helped him stage a small protest outside the school and speak at the school board and city council meetings. As a result, the school invited NCFM to present the other side. NCFM discussed the experiences of male victims and why they are neglected and covered up for political and ideological reasons, handed out studies on dating violence including those linked below, explained the history and politics surrounding the problem and why covering up half the violence actually fosters the intergenerational cycle of violence even more. The students were receptive, and some were outspokenly supportive. NCFM also briefly introduced issues like paternity fraud and false accusations of abuse as forms of domestic violence, and briefly introduced other men's issues as well and the men's rights movement overall. NCFM handed out NCFM's flyers and other materials, as well as the following studies/articles:

Science Daily, Male And Female Adolescents Equally Victims Of Physical Dating Violence, Study Shows (11/12/07)

California State University (Long Beach) bibliography by Professor Martin Fiebert (page 1)
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

University of New Hampshire, Men are More Likely Than Women to Be Victims in Dating Violence, UNH Expert Says

Journal of Adolescent Health, Gender Differences in Dating Aggression Among Multiethnic High School Students (5/08).

Thank you to all who helped out and donated toward the travel costs, and to Dennis, the father of the Torrance High School student, who contacted NCFM made it all happen.

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Way to go guys! Will the

Way to go guys! Will the femms sponsor a counter-protest?

Let Equality flourish, the chips fall where they may.

Okay...

...so the NCFM spoke before 30 members of the student body government. But did the previous demonstration -- the unfair, inaccurate one -- go before just those thirty, or in front of the whole student body?

Hopefully, the NCFM and other groups that will give a more balanced portrayal of domestic abuse will give full-school assemblies and reach as many young people as possible.

Men's Rights + Women's Rights = HUMAN Rights

student body

The feminist presentation was before the whole student body, but the father who did the negotiating was only able to get them to agree to allow our presentation to be before the student government. I agree it's not right but it's what we were given. Whether the father should not have settled for that is an issu for debate, but I'm still very thankful for what he did and how well he handled it. This is unprecedented as far as we know. We also handed out the information and asked them to show their parents, their teachers and friends, and we are told the student government will set up a student debate on the issue. I don't know the details on that but the father told me. Also, Tom Leykis will have us his show tonight at 4pm PST to discuss what happened.

A great showing

There are a few other details to this story, such as the efforts of that Father who protested the gender feminist d.v. industry training of his off spring. As mentioned, the d.v. industry group said 95% of d.v. is committed by men, and we know that's very disingenuous. That Dad and the three men mentioned are true heroes in my estimation for asserting their legal rights and standing up to the misinformation. Believe me there was a lot of work preceding this event, primarily by that Dad, but some work by others too.

Just presenting before 30 student gov't people may not sound like much, but being able to officially follow and refute a gender feminist, ideologically based, d.v. propaganda spiel on a High School campus is powerful, IMO.

Congrats. to all involved and best wishes for every success in the future. Good work, NCFMLA and Fathers4Justice.

Sincerely, Ray

Good job! Maybe the next step is a college campus presentation?

That's probably a pretty big leap from here, considering the stranglehold ideological feminists have in academia...

If it could be done at a university with national reknown, like UCLA or USC, that would obviously be even better. Maybe the best way to go at this is to approach students, instead of professors or administrators.
Especially now, with the recent Dartmouth incident.

-ax

steps in the success of the men's rights movement

I pretty much agree with Farrell, that the first major success of the men's movement will be in the area of fathers' rights.

I personally think the next steps are the public becoming aware of false rape, then DV, statistics. Duke opened the door to creating public knowledge of false rape accusations. The impression I get is that people on the street are viewing things a little differently now, regarding rape accusations.

Overall, academia will probably be the last institution to reform, following the media, the courts, and legislative bodies (not sure if Farrell gave those three in that particular order).

-ax

Oh yeah, one other thing..

I think the single biggest mistake the ideological feminists are making, is that they are overlooking the potential power of a slow-growing grass-roots MRA movement - they don't seem to be too concerned about nipping it in the bud. Most of the higher-ranking ones seem to be continually aiming to the stratosphere, drunk with the success of high-level changes in legislation and the courts. They are leaving the low-level work of debating MRA's to what is effectively a random, disorganized, uninformed "group" of women who are thus ill-equipped to argue from a viable, or even logical, standpoint. There seems to be no leadership or even informing of this group by the upper-level ideologues.

There was the paper (or book?) "feminist response to the men's movement" (I think that's what it was actually titled); although I only read a couple excerpts from it, the impression I get is that the feminists did not put all that much effort or thought into it, compared to other work they have done in the past; which would seem to indicate they don't take the movement at all seriously and that they can just blow it off.

-ax

Status Quo

When you are enjoying a billion dollars a year to advocate for your ideology (via VAWA) and your opponents have basically no funding - why would you take the men's movement seriously?

Last year's campaign to make VAWA "gender neutral" resulted in some watered down language that did not mandate any actual funding for men.

Until men's issues have some significant funding and federal offices on violence against men and men's health,the status quo
is what we've got.

The Tom Lykis show carried this story w/ interviews

I just listened to two hours of the Tom Lykis show here in Los Angeles. Marc, Harry, and Dennis were all on and talked about this event and the events leading up to this event. Our three guys were only on for the first hour, but Lykis took call-ins the 2nd hour on this subject. I know Tom Lykis is syndicated so I'm pretty sure this played in some other big cities. I don't know if today's show is somewhere on the internet or not, but please post a link if someone can find today's show.

There are a lot of people driving home on the freeways who probably heard this story today in Los Angeles and elsewhere.

Tom Leykis

Tom Leykis has a huge following, and this is not the first time that he has hosted such a subject.

He outed Kobe Bryant's accuser, as well as Chrystal Gail Magnum (Duke University).

He is an LA pop culture and radio icon. And though he goes for ratings as a top priority, he gives an eye opener to millions of men every day, 5 days a week, very often on similar topics.

And more than people on freeways in SoCal heard this. He has online listeners and iTunes listeners from all over the world.

Thanks for the updates

Leykis also periodically hosts Marc Rudov

Leykis web site

I checked and can't find the show in question. There's also something wrong with the "search" function on his site right now. I will keep checking periodically.

-ax

Leykis on iTunes

The podcasts are on iTunes. Four episodes every day. 5 days each week (though staff is sometimes slow uploading new episodes).

Tonight's broadcast might not be there now. But it will be. And you don't need an iPod. If you download the software, you can listen on your PC.

He's not an activist as we are but when things come up, he encourages men to really ORGANIZE to deal with men's issues.

He's for the unwashed masses and he is crass, but he is definitely on the side of men.

I have two iPods...never have known what a "podcast" is though..

Is it just like an iTunes song where you simply go there and purchase it, download it to your p.c., then download it to your iPod? I suppose it's more than 99 cents, and takes up more space on the iPod?

[note I said download to the iPod from the P.C. "Download" means "big to small", according to Dr. Fred Martin of M.I.T. Download from the internet to the P.C. - the internet is "bigger" than the computer. Of course the other way is to call it "upload" since it's "from" the P.C. to the iPod. That convention seems a little awkward and unnatural to me, however. Each to his own.]

-ax

Good Show

I listen to Lykis on the live webstream.
(blowmeuptom.com)

I don't know if he archives his programs for later listening.

I thought Marc, Harry, and Dennis were very effective in their remarks.

One woman called in and tried to redirect the domestic violence conversation into a debate about the so-caled gender pay gap myth. She was utterly destroyed.

And Lykis has clearly done his homework on the anti-male DV Industry.

It would be great to have an audio archive of the show that MRA's could share.

Anyone remember....

...in the mid 90's men's issues were briefly being aloud to be talked about on TV talk show (even *gasp* PBS...!)

I guess they thought that these men would say stereotypical things about "men's rights" and that these guys would easily be refuted by feminist on the shows with them. In every case the MRAs had supportable data, and made calm reasoned arguments, and were making the feminists and like minded women (and men) look pretty bad.
Then SUDDENLY those types of topics disappeared almost over night, and men's rights advocates were once again silenced, and have been to the present, by the media.
I guess, to often, men's rights activists were just making too many rational, reasonable arguements.

It might expose the femroids (even most women on the whole) as the liars and hypocrites they truly are.
They couldn't win the debate in a fair argument. So they did what any bigot-group will do, eliminate the other point of view, because it is to dangerous, too truthful and to powerful.
The best way to win a debate is to silence the opposing view. no argument, no debate.

Good o'l AmeriKKan media.
Always lookin' out for the interests of all Americans.
Well, the ones with vaginas, anyway. After all those AmeriKans are the only ones who count, right?

..yeah, Ive gotten kinda mean, ain't I?
But that's what happens when you keep kicking a dog over and over. No matter how good natured that dog is in thje begining, he will ALWAY turn on you when you've kicked him enoughe times.
And Gals, as far as I'm conserned, this dog is turnin', right now.
*Chomp*, ya get my drift...?

P.S.
Please forgive me for any spelling errors, I've made. the head trauma I suffered is workin' over time, today.

Thundercloud.

HOKA-HEY!

Ladies, remember; you can't preach EQUALITY while claiming SUPERIORITY. Dig?

Podcasts are free. Its like TiVo for radio

Podcasts are actually free. They cost nothing.

When you have iTunes open, type "The Tom Leykis Show" into the search field. His show should come up.

There may be two, but one is older than the other. I think it is from his previous gig at another radio station before he went to CBS. The dates of each podcast will give you a clue about which is which.

And Leykis knows a LOT about false DV accusations. An ex tried to do that to him a long time ago. He talks about it frequently.

Anyway, if you've not yet gotten into podcasts, you're in for a real treat. Once you start, you'll never want to get into your car without a fully loaded iPod.

order of priority

I agree with you axolotl.......The number of false rape charges against men are staggering according to the latest statistics,and innocent men are being jailed for years on end.Even when it can be proven that the woman lied,rarly has any legal action been taken against her.This has to stop.The same thing is happening in staggering numbers with dv cases,false accusations are being made against men,by women and the police rarly question it because of dept policy.At the same time assults done by women against men are occurring at an alarming rate,with little or no public awareness or interest.I have even seen people in the media "snicker"when the subject of women doing violence against men.This too has to end.

Okay, thanks .

Belgorod, thanks for the info on Podcasts.

T.C. - I think it's due to direct pressure on the media from radical feminists. Warren Farrell has discussed in one of his books, how when he was a feminist supporter back in the 1970's/early 1980's, both the written and visual media would frequently quote and even host him. (he was on the director's board of NOW in New York city at the time).

Then later when he started to question some of the tenets of feminism, requests for his appearance immediately dried up. In fact, he had even been told previously by Phil Donahue, on whose show he had already appeared, that he would have future appearances..but it never panned out. I'm not sure it was Donahue's show or someone elses, but Farrell said Gloria Steinem herself called some network and threatened "if you have this guy on, we will...['make sure you suffer' or some such thing - can't recall exactly what]". Also the NY times quit consulting with him.

Finally, he was at one point told by one of the staff of "Politically Incorrect" that he was "too incorrect" to appear on their show (he does not name the staff member in his book, for protection purposes). (to Bill Maher's credit, I have seen him do "critical commentary" on feminism as part of one his stand-up comedy routines. I don't think he does those any more - he is now hosting some new talk show).

-ax

jazzman - question

Can you point me to any recent studies on false rape accusations? Just about all I've ever seen that we have to go on in that respect, are the two studies done some time ago by Dr. Charles McDowell (60% false allegation rate), and an (apparently unofficial) analysis of DOJ statistics done by Wendy McElroy about a year ago ("up to 25%" - but there are problems with her analysis). The only thing I read recently was on Glenn Sacks' web site, where an unnamed former police officer was quoted as saying that he privately thought, that the rate of false accusations was about 70%. Obviously that's unofficial too.

Of course I'm not by any means saying I know of everything out there. That's why I'm asking - so I can perhaps become updated or at least enlightened on the subject.

-ax

false rape charges

What I did was to Google the question and came up with several sites.The problem is I also got different "stats" Some say over 40% of men in prison now for rape are innocent.Others say the percentage is even higher.To find the exact truth might prove to be difficult,because of the politically incorrectness.One thing I truly beleive is what ever the exact stats are they will be high,because of the bias in the courts,and law inforcement agencys.Wendy Murphy on the fox network sometime ago loudly proclamed the Guys in the Duke rape case were guilty (this was before they were found to be innocent)and that almost always rape allegations are true.This will show you how "out of touch"she is with reality.This is and was just more anti-male properganda,spewed out by a so called "expert" who is doing nothing more then to push her bias agenda.

It's two different Wendy's

You probably knew that? McElroy's somewhat of an ally to MRA's, totally unlike Murphy. Her web site is www.wendymcelroy.com

There's also her ifeminists web site.
-ax

Make no mistake

Yes make no mistake,two different people. Wendy Murphy is a former prosecutor (scary)who is now seen on various TV news shows on various networks.She is suppose to an expert on sex crimes with an attitude that women are almost always the victim,and men are almost always guilty.When she was on Bill O'reilly's show sometime back when the Duke rape case was going strong, she said outright that those guys were guilty.And when another guest suggested that it was possible the alleged victim could be lying,She snapped ("How dare you")stating that almost always (98%)the victim is telling the truth.This doesn't support the facts,where more and more mens Groups,college professors and other authorities are finding evidence that false rape charges are being made against men accross the globe at epidemic levels.Ms murphy to the best of my knowledge has not made an apology for falsely accusing those guys and has just ignored the subject,like it never happened.So to me it's clear that she (and others like her)have no "real"interest in the truth or justice,but instead just to push their own twisted bias proproganda.

Murphy made similar statements on Tucker Carlson's show

To Carlson's credit, he argued with her, concerning the Duke case; and made her look like a nut as well. He also used that exact same word you did with regard to her being a prosecutor - "scary".

In my opinion Nancy Grace is even worse than Murphy. Since she has her own show, she has wider effect. I think she used to be a lawyer too. Why does the legal profession allow so many crazed, unethical, hate-mongering pigs to get their licenses? Can't they screen people using psychological testing, or something? Some of these women think so illogically I don't see how they passed the LSAT, since it contains extensive "logic problem" exercises. I guess it's just a matter of figuring out what answer the test-makers expect. (I'm not denigrating lawyers in general here).

-ax

bias

Correct........But there's also the bias agenda ridden,brainwashed feminist men,who are everywhere. The pandering by these "slobs" to feminist groups,and women's, so called cause's in general is truly sickening.This is happening in all areas,not just with judges, lawyers and prosecutors,but everywhere.One case in point come's to mind (from endless examples) Is when "Geraldo" was on Fox's O'reilly's show some time back,flatly stated that it's different when a woman "rapes" a underage boy even if the kid is 12 or 13 years old then when a man does the same sick crime.Now of course I'm not talking about forcible rape.Sex with a kid is a crime and should be punished,severly with both genders.But nearly always judges will not seriously senence a woman to any significant jail time for the identical crime as that of a man who would get 15 years. This happens all the time!!What kind of shit is this.Geraldo has made a career out of pandering to women,from the days of that daytime "slop" talkshow he once had,where he always emphasized the woman being the victim of men,and never the other way around.This of course made him very popular with women who watched this kind of mindless trash (and still do) by the ten's of millions.Geraldo and others like him in all area's are "pimping"these women,and women's groups to make "brownie" points for a variety of reasons.And then again there are other's who are simply brainwashed and don't know any better.What ever the reason, we men are being "hosed"in all area's and the only way to stop this digusting bias is to start uniting and getting more and more exposure in the media.