Dr. Amy: Are fathers optional?

Article here. Excerpt:

'In other words, more than 1/4 of white children, 1/2 of Hispanic children, and almost 3/4 of black children were born to mothers who did not feel that marriage was necessary. Since marriage reflects the commitment of mother and father to stay together permanently, it means that a large proportion of women chose to give birth without taking steps to make sure that the father would live with his child and be a permanent presence in his or her life.
However, as the birth statistics demonstrate, the problem is not simply one of abandonment. Women are actively conceiving and bearing children in the knowledge that their fathers will almost certainly not be living with them throughout childhood. Simply put, women are behaving as if fathers are optional.'

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Probably directly related to the rise in Narcissism and daughters of feminist who preach you don't need a man, forgetting that sex is about the only thing of any interest that most women have to offer as they are typical not compassionate, emotionally stable or nurturing anymore if ever. And of course since money and sperm is the only thing men offer, women can support themselves with work and child support. These single moms joining the Mommy culture via peer pressure must make sure to tell their sons near the age of 18 that they are not needed by society and should kill themselves, get arrested or go into the military since that apparently is the only use for males in the Feminists eyes.

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to women who only care about themselves.

oh they talk a good game about being more nurturing, better parents and bla bla bla.
load of crap. every truly educated sane person knows the way things
are supposed to be. dad + mom + kids = family.

trying to turn society into anything else is toxic for everyone.
the evidence is everywhere. through their (and their minions, lawyers)
greed, feminists have turned what passes for marriage and the family into something unnatural, and something to be avoided by astute men.
the old joke about marriage being an institution, but who wants to
live life in an institution? is oh so true in these strange days.
as soon as the young guys
ALL figure out they are 100000% better off not signing a one-sided
contract, it will drive those last nails into the lid of the coffin of matrimony.

and i predict western women will spew fire blaming everyone else.
and all the more terrible laws against men will be passed, to no avail.

last verse in my Old Testament says

Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

and all this is just a coincidence?

i wouldn't take that bet.

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I agree that fathers should NOT be viewed as 'optional'.

I agree that women should look towards options that will not lead to single motherhood such as adoption.

I agree that it is selfish to deprive a child of a father.

I agree that Hollywood, lesbian couples, and male athletes set a bad example of 'optional' fatherhood.

However, I do NOT agree that women purposely conceive knowing that their children will be fatherless.

After quoting all the un-wed birth statistics, the author writes:

"...children were born to mothers who did not feel that marriage was necessary. Since marriage reflects the commitment of mother and father to stay together permanently, it means that a large proportion of women chose to give birth without taking steps to make sure that the father would live with his child and be a permanent presence in his or her life."

My response would be, why does the author put all the blame on the woman, and how does she know what we 'feel'? Since it is usually men that propose, I would say it is equally MEN that are choosing not to marry the mothers. I also want to say that the author has no way of knowing what the mothers and fathers are planning just because they are unwed at the time of birth does not always mean the father is not planning to be involved. (IMO living in the same household is the only way to be fully involved, but you do not neccesarily need to be married)

I am a little sensitive to this issue because I am a single mother (not by choice). Based on my upbringing, beliefs and family values, I am the last person you would think would end up this way. My ex thought he was ready to be a father, he made commitments and promises and everything started off good, but then the stress of family life became too much for him, and he went back to single life.

I don't think marriage would have changed anything, or made him more committed. I think he wanted me, but not family life; but in order to keep me he had to pretend or try to want a family.

I do not think of myself as blameless in all of this. Looking back I know where I made the wrong choices.

But I feel the author should not be placing all of the blame on women or pretend to know what they are feeling.

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Come on Kris, one does not have to read minds to understand what's going on.

Women have been becoming single moms without the "disposable" dad in the way for decades. With welfare and generous child support checks, women have taken full advantage of the gravy train, and with their actions express their contempt for the "option" of a father present. Not to mention filing over 95% of divorce actions that involve children, and usually demanding sole custody.

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someone commented under her article, saying,

"So what you are saying is that only when a woman is married can and should she have children."

She responded by saying, "Yes, that is absolutely 100% what I am saying."

Research has shown that a committed relationship is what is necessary, not marriage per se. Thus she was giving bad advice to this one guy I quoted, because it sounded like he and his girlfriend were in such a relationship.

It sounds kind of like the doctor Amy is a "moral majority" person, which is bound to rub some people the wrong way.


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A mother's unilateral decision to have a child out of wedlock has nothing to do with any man. That's why it's called "unilateral". And, the state does support and even encourage this type of behaviour by women: why work when one can deceive a man into impregnating oneself, then sueing for 18 years of child support and collecting welfare and other handouts as well? Even "anonymous" sperm donors are not always protected from this onerous and unfair burden.

Luckily the U.S. has not gone quite as far as the U.K. in this respect (yet). The situation over there is truly horrendous, where women are in effect payed to have children out of wedlock; and is resulting in massive social breakdown.

No one thing contributes more to social breakdown, than single motherhood (note that I said "single motherhood", not just "fatherlessness". Father alone raising a child is actually a safer environment than mother alone). Although I realize you yourself did not intentionally have a child out of wedlock, but we can only wonder what all the circumstances were surrounding your claim of "my ex was not ready for family life"..


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From being a part of this forum for a few month now, I can see that I don't have the same experiences as most members here (most likely because I am female), so my opinion will probably never be popular. At the same time I am not sure that the members here represent a common cross section of the general population.

I agree that single parenthood is a big problem and should not be condoned. However, I do not see it as a female induced problem. I see males perpetuating it just as much as females.

I think that if a man and women are both committed at birth to raising the child, then they are probably just as likely as a married couple to either succeed or fail ( I do not have statistics, but just my opinion).

I DO have problems with a mother that CHOOSES welfare and single motherhood from the start (no thought of adoption), but I also have a problem with fathers that walk out on their responsibilities after the birth (emotionally too late for adoption). It may not be represented by the men here, but many men prefer to only send a check, but have no physical and/or emotional contact with their kids.

From what I see, it is half of mothers that think fatherhood is optional and the other half is men that consider it optional.

As far as a 'gravy train' goes, I don't know if it is because I am far detached from the welfare/poverty group, but I have never seen a rich welfare mom, or any women that has achieved wealth by having kids out of wedlock. Where do you see these rich single moms?

Ax, I don't know if you consider ALL unwed births to be the mother's 'unilateral decision' or just the cases when the father has made it known that he doesn't want kid, because in many cases the father does want his child to be born.

Looking back at my own decisions, I know I was too young and too trusting to be making such choices, But my ex and I had talked about everything even before we dated, as we had become good friends. We are both Pro-Life and when we began dating I tried to get on birth control pills, but could not pass the physical (I have a personal medical condition). Of course we discussed the 'what ifs' because we knew pregnancy was likely if we were not careful. The rhythm method worked very well for me, and it was when we went off (during a vacation) that I became pregnant.

He had always sworn off marriage, but he also did not want abortion or adoption (he said he did not want white people raising his kid). Having a father was VERY important to me. He gave me a ring, professed his love and commitment to being a family, purchased a family home and gave every indication that we would stay together. The pregnancy and birth of our son was probably the best time in our relationship.

Unfortunately I did not have a 'grace period' that I thought you got after having a baby and I immediately got pregnant again (boys are 10 1/2 month apart). It was a high risk pregnancy, and that's when our relationship went downhill and he went back to single life.

I am not some poor, low class girl. I am a highly capable person (I could support my kids without him if I had to, but it would not be the same lifestyle). My family owns the largest privately owned cooperation of its kind in the area. In the long-run HE would have gained wealth by marrying ME.

But he didn't (and its too late now), but that is how I became a single mother and I write my responses from my perspective.

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I think that a shift needs to be made in the mindset that it is ok and "cool" to want to be a father just like most girls are brought up wanting to be a mother. I don't see any programs or initiative to teach guys growing up about the positive sides of being a father and how to handle the situation. It just seems as if guys are taught that it is a financial responsibility which undermines the role of father back into just providing money. The source of this mindset among others is the fact that guys have no rights and very little control paternally, women have the pill, morning after pill, abortion and adoption while guys have condoms with 13%ish rate of failure and abstinence. Granted if someone wanted to be a father and then freaked, it is different, although I wonder if he would have been able to cope if he would have been taught how to be a parent and encouraged to do so while he was growing up.

I think the mindset is that people either think of this,
or single motherhood by choice, but their is also single fatherhood by choice which is much more expensive but is still being done.

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I appreciate your response Michael, and I think you are correct.

My ex had an extreme ghetto upbringing. Although his parents were married (unusual in his black community), his parents were violent, neglectful, had alcohol problems, spent time in jail, etc. His father was not around much and did not set a good example. My ex always used his parents as an example for why he never wants to be married.

I also think that if you were to ask my ex, he would describe himself as a good father. He has always loved and wanted his kids (never asked for an abortion) and he has always willingly provided financially for them (something his own father could never do). I think he stays away from a traditional home life because he is scared that he might end up being like his own father. I think he has the mentality that if he never makes any promises, then you can never accuse him of breaking them.

In my case I think it is my ex that equates fatherhood with financial support, rather than physical and emotional support. Since he never had it in his own childhood (and turned out just fine), he doesn't understand the value of it. I do give my ex a lot of credit, because if you consider his upbringing and what he has gone thru, he really has done pretty well.

I also see the statistics about the women initiating divorce and separation most of the time (I think in a post above, it says 95%). In my experience, my ex would also tell you that I left him. And I did. I am the one that physically packed up my stuff (with my infant baby and pregnant with my second child) and flew across the country to be back with my family (my parents weren't exactly thrilled).

But he was the one that returned to single life and provided a dangerous household for me and our child. He just expected me to put up with it like his mother did in her marriage.

So just because the mother initiates the break up, does not always mean that it is her fault.

My mistake in all of this was that I chose to have children with him too soon, if I would have waited I would have found this out eventually, and I would have broken up with him before I risked pregnancy.

However, If we had stayed together, we would both be much better off; the kids would have a father and it is always more economical to have one household rather than two. Also when we were together everyone commented on how good he was, both in his career and in his general emotional well being. I think an intact happy family makes everyone better in every aspect of their lives.

His 13 year old daughter is coming to stay with me this summer (I have never met her, but she and I have always kept in contact, and I want the siblings to have a relationship). My ex found out about this and now he is coming this summer too. The bad part is that he expects to stay with me and be an instant family, and it will be tough to tell him no. It is not that I don't want to be a family with him, it is just too much too fast. I think it sets a bad example to my kids about letting a man come and go. (Plus he would have to get a vasectomy and pass an STD check.)

I wish he would have a relationship with just the kids and keep me out of it.

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I certainly don't recall making any such statement myself. Also, when I say "unilateral" I am of course referring to the individual making the decision, not women as a group. (although I think there is some orgainization called "single mothers by choice")

But one thing I can say is that I have never been married or have kids. Thus my opinion is perhaps more impartial than someone going primarily on their own one personal, emotional experience (or that of a couple people they personally know of or read about in the paper).

Even if I have some unconcious "ax" to grind against women (even though it's my alias!) , the numbers are the numbers, and I've seen them. Check out hhs.gov - it's all there for everyone to see. And surprisingly, considering that that department is one of the more heavily feminist-infiltrated branches of the government.


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Ax, I don't quite understand you post above as I have never implied that you made a statement about 'women getting rich' (In my 'gravy train' statement I am referring to Tor Ackman's post. I am not even sure if that is the statement you are referring to).

As far as a woman's 'unilateral decisions' to have children out of wedlock, I wanted clarification on your position. I assume you are speaking from the perspective that abortion and adoption are options for a woman (however, adoption/safe haven takes both partners to agree). For many fathers as well as mothers abortion is not an option they would consider. So in my opinion, you are only correct when the father wants an abortion and the mother does not, which I do not believe is the case in many unwed pregnancies. Also abortion is available to married women as well. So if I am correct about your position, then you would have to say that ALL births have nothing to do with a man and are 'unilateral decisions' that a mother makes.

I am sure we all know married and unmarried couples that have planned a pregnancy and to have a child together. So to say a man has nothing to do with it is nonsense, IMO.

And I am not sure if you are insinuating that someone is disputing numbers with you or is accusing you of having an ax to grind with women. If you are, it is not me .

I am very much in agreement that out of wedlock births play a part in society's breakdown. To be more specific though, I would say it is due to absent fathers and poverty, and not so much as being unmarried. These statistics are hard to separate.

I also believe that the best thing a mother can do is to make sure her child has a father, but if at the time of birth the father wants the child and promises he will be involved, and then later on he changes his mind, the mother is stuck. I don't like all the blame put on mothers for this.

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" I have never seen a rich welfare mom, or any women that has achieved wealth by having kids out of wedlock. Where do you see these rich single moms? "

If you are addressing someone else that's fine, I am merely saying that I myself made no such statement or implication.

If you look at the HHS web site it will clear up most of your other questions. It is not primarily a problem of "absent fathers" in the sense of so-called 'deadbeats' and dads who 'abandon' their families. That notion is based on feminist hogwash and media hype.


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My opinions on women choosing single motherhood is best summed up by YouTube's inimitable THUGTICIAN:


Probably the best thing to come out of the UK since 007.

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