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Farrell Article on Wage Gap Myth
posted by Thomas on 06:56 PM September 14th, 2005
News Warren Farrell recently had the following article, on the wage gap myth, published in the New York Times and the International Herald Tribune.

Note that, given the exposure, this is a good time to buy his "Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap - and What Women Can Do About It." Even if you already own the book, consider buying it for a man or woman who's heading off to college. A surge in sales will help his standing on Amazon, if you buy it there.

See "Read More" for a copy of the article.


Exploiting the Gender Gap

By WARREN FARRELL

Carlsbad, Calif.
Nothing disturbs working women more than the statistics often mentioned on Labor Day showing that they are paid only 76 cents to men's dollar for the same work. If that were the whole story, it should disturb all of us; like many men, I have two daughters and a wife in the work force.

When I was on the board of the National Organization for Women in New York City, I blamed discrimination for that gap. Then I asked myself, "If an employer has to pay a man one dollar for the same work a woman would do for 76 cents, why would anyone hire a man?"

Perhaps, I thought, male bosses undervalue women. But I discovered that in 2000, women without bosses - who own their own businesses - earned only 49 percent of male business owners. Why? When the Rochester Institute of Technology surveyed business owners with M.B.A.'s from one top business school, they found that money was the primary motivator for only 29 percent of the women, versus 76 percent of the men. Women put a premium on autonomy, flexibility (25- to 35-hour weeks and proximity to home), fulfillment and safety.

After years of research, I discovered 25 differences in the work-life choices of men and women. All 25 lead to men earning more money, but to women having better lives.

High pay, as it turns out, is about tradeoffs. Men's tradeoffs include working more hours (women work more around the home); taking more dangerous, dirtier and outdoor jobs (garbage collecting, instruction, trucking); relocating and traveling; and training for technical jobs with less people contact (like engineering).

Is the pay gap, then, about the different choices of men and women? Not quite. It's about parents' choices. Women who have never been married and are childless earn 117 percent of their childless male counterparts. (This comparison controls for education, hours worked and age.) Their decisions are more like married men's, and never-married men's decisions are more like women's in general (careers in arts, no weekend work, etc.)

Does this imply that mothers sacrifice careers? Not really. Surveys of > men and women in their 20's find that both sexes (70 percent of men, and 63 percent of women) would sacrifice pay for more family time. The next generation's discussion will be about who gets to be the primary parent.

Don't women, though, earn less than men in the same job? Yes and no. For example, the Bureau of Labor Statistics lumps together all medical doctors. Men are more likely to be surgeons (versus general practitioners) and work in private practice for hours that are longer and less predictable, and for more years. In brief, the same job is not the same. Are these women's choices? When I taught at a medical school, I saw that even my first-year female students eyed specialties with fewer and more predictable hours.

But don't female executives also make less than male executives? Yes. Discrimination? Let's look. The men are more frequently executives of national and international firms with more personnel and revenues, and responsible for bottom-line sales, marketing and finances, not human resources or public relations. They have more experience, relocate and travel overseas more, and so on.

Comparing men and women with the "same jobs," then, is to compare apples and oranges. However, when all 25 choices are the same, the great news for women is that then the women make more than the men. Is there discrimination against women? Yes, like the old boys' network. And sometimes discrimination against women becomes discrimination against men: in hazardous fields, women suffer fewer hazards. For example, more than 500 marines have died in the war in Iraq. All but two were men. In other fields, men are virtually excluded - try getting hired as a male dental hygienist, nursery school teacher, cocktail waiter.

There are 80 jobs in which women earn more than men - positions like financial analyst, speech-language pathologist, radiation therapist, library worker, biological technician, motion picture projectionist. Female sales engineers make 143 percent of their male counterparts; female statisticians earn 135 percent.

I want my daughters to know that people who work 44 hours a week make, on average, more than twice the pay of someone working 34 hours a week. And that pharmacists now earn almost as much as doctors. But only by abandoning our focus on discrimination against women can we discover these opportunities for women.

Warren Farrell is the author of "Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap - and What Women Can Do About It."

Men's Rights Movement Gaining Respectability | Women as Abusers... are you surprised?  >

  
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Get it out ! (Score:1)
by Gang-banged on 07:54 PM September 14th, 2005 EST (#1)
(User #1714 Info)
Go on, treat your Union Leader, make sure people in the personnel field have a copy, and, ensure every Newspaper Editor & TV News Director possess copies.

If we are to try and Halt the assault on men, it is no good just swearing at the TV or Newspaper, invest in making sure people know the truth and have no excuse . . then bomb the place.
Another article with a feminist perspective (Score:2)
by Thomas on 08:09 PM September 14th, 2005 EST (#2)
Here's an article published today with a feminist perspective. Note that the claim is made that the wage gap is real, but there is no consideration of factors such as type of job, the huge difference in the average number of hours worked by "full-time" women and men, extended periods taken away from work, and a host of other factors. No wonder the feminists carry on about nebulous "comparable worth." They know that women who earn less than men haven't earned as much as men, because on average women work far fewer hours at far easier and safer jobs.

Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.

Re:Another article with a feminist perspective (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 08:15 PM September 14th, 2005 EST (#3)
The feminists shrieked "equal pay for equal work"; however, I never heard them cry "equal time for equal crime".
Hotspur
Re:Another article with a feminist perspective (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 10:14 PM September 14th, 2005 EST (#4)
My reply to a feminist who complains about wage differential goes something like this:

Okay - you are unhappy about the fact that women in general make a little less than men. Since 93% of occupational deaths are men - you go out and tag the thousands of women who we will kill to make things even, and then we will give women a raise.

One other thing we need to do is take a drive around suburbia and find every woman who has chosen to stay home with her children and drag her from the home and send her back to work so she will not have a gap in her resume.

That puts things into a stark perspective.
Income? What about consumption? (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 10:57 PM September 14th, 2005 EST (#5)
I wrote Farrell a few months ago about this very topic – maybe he will write about it some time.

The truth about the wage gap myth is important – but that myth was debunked years and years ago. All men need to be prepared to debunk the myth on the spot. However, focusing solely in earnings misses the point. When discussing these issues we also need to consider consumption, because consumption is what really matters.

Think about it – If you go out to work and earn $100,000 a year, and for what ever reason you give me $50,000 of your money, our consumption is equal, yet you earn infinitely more than I do. Who is better off, you or me? We both consume equally, yet you are the one who works all year and I do not.

My hypothesis is that if you take Middle America (drop the top and bottom 10%) you will find that women consume the vast majority of wealth in the US. I would not be surprised if an honest economic analysis showed that women consume 70% of the wealth.

Now we can get to the interesting part - what all this means is, if all women worked (and we know that is not true just by going to the mall on a weekday and seeing the hoard of women in their SUVs, shopping and pushing a baby carriage into a coffee shop to have a $4 latte, or brunch with the other women in their SUVs), then they would earn 43% of the country’s income. When you consider that women consume 70% of the wealth in this country, and compare that to the fact that at most they earn only 43% - I am sure you would agree that something is very unfair about this situation. We need to increase women’s income by 7%, and reduce their consumption by 30% to make things equal.

Has anyone seen something published on wealth consumption with a breakdown by sex?

Re:Income? What about consumption? (Score:1)
by dschmidt on 07:22 AM September 15th, 2005 EST (#6)

On average, men get paid more money than women. Most people think this is unfair, but let's look at it another way:

If you were from another planet, such as Switzerland, and you only knew these two facts - 1) Men earn most of the money, and 2) Women spend most of the money - what would you assume about who is holding whom by the whatchamacallits and swinging the person who owns the whatchamacallits around in the air while yelling 'I AM WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!'?

It's a rhetorical question.


(Scott Adams)
Re:Income? What about consumption? (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 03:10 PM September 15th, 2005 EST (#11)
Women earn 80% of mens salaries.....and 100% of their own salaries.
Hotspur
Re:Income? What about consumption? (Score:1)
by Uberganger on 08:19 AM September 15th, 2005 EST (#8)
Bear with me as I go through the maths... For every dollar of wealth: Men earn 57 cents. Men spend 30 cents. Women earn 43 cents. Women spend 70 cents. So, for every dollar a man earns, he spends... 30 x 100 / 57 = about 53 cents For every dollar a woman earns, she spends... 70 x 100 / 43 = about 163 cents Somebody kindly check my arithmetic while I go and have a lie down in a darkened room.
Re:Income? What about consumption? (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 10:02 AM September 15th, 2005 EST (#10)
Stop here and you are good:

"Bear with me as I go through the maths... For every dollar of wealth: Men earn 57 cents. Men spend 30 cents. Women earn 43 cents. Women spend 70 cents."

Consumption:
70 cents + 30 cents = 100 cents

Earned:
43 cents + 57 cents = 100 cents

Some more equal than others... (Score:1)
by Uberganger on 07:58 AM September 15th, 2005 EST (#7)
There are 80 jobs in which women earn more than men...

Oh, well that's alright then. As long as it's women earning more money everything is fine and dandy, and we can all parade down the street with rainbow banners heralding the bright new dawn. When men earn more, usually by working much longer hours, more unfavourable hours (none of that flexibility and choice for him), more dangerous and demanding work, then we're all supposed to hang our heads in shame and wonder how it could ever have got so bad. Let's walk down the street at a slow march, dressed in sackcloth and ashes, to the morose beat of a funereal drum.

One day men and women will earn the same money. She'll earn her money working in a nice comfy office for 30 hours a week so she can have all that flexibility and choice, and he'll earn his money working 60 hours a week in a steelworks, or on a trawler, or in the army. Ain't equality a wonderful thing when you look at it just right.
Re:Some more equal than others... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 08:35 AM September 15th, 2005 EST (#9)
"She'll earn her money working in a nice comfy office for 30 hours a week"
              30 hours!! You must be kidding. Between all the leave entitlements they have, its probably nearer 3 hours.
Hotspur
Re:Some more equal than others... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 04:06 PM September 15th, 2005 EST (#12)
Another factor to consider in the pay-gap fiction is that because women live on average 6.5 years longer than men, women typically inherit 100% of the man's net worth.

And this 6.5 figure seems suspect to me, because I can hardly count the number of well-to-do widows in their 60's, 70's, and 80's whose hard-working husbands died 10 - 25 years back.

Not a few enterprising gals have buried two husbands by the time they're 65!

Male mortality is a woman's best insurance policy and cash cow.

And don't for a minute think they don't know it.
Re:Some more equal than others... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 09:06 PM September 15th, 2005 EST (#13)
Just a thought, but in a recent example of "equal pay for equal play" the U.S. Open recently wrapped up in Flushing Meadows, NY with the usual publicity about the winnings of the male and female champions. Of the 4 major championships, only Wimbledon (London) has decided not to pay the women equally as the man since, quite obviously to most, but apparently not to the feminists, the women play best of 3 set matches, while the men play best of 5 set matches. This is universal in all championships, but the U.S. has decided that for Maria Sharapova's 45 minute breezers she should get paid the same amount as Andre Agassi's 4 hour marathons. Lovely world we live in.
Re:Some more equal than others... (Score:2)
by Thomas on 09:44 PM September 15th, 2005 EST (#14)
the women play best of 3 set matches, while the men play best of 5 set matches.

Not to mention the fact that the best woman wouldn't stand a quasar's chance in Hades of beating the best man.

Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.

Re:Some more equal than others... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 10:24 PM September 15th, 2005 EST (#15)
"Not to mention the fact that the best woman wouldn't stand a quasar's chance in Hades of beating the best man.
                                Your post bings to mind a day in September 1973, when a rather aged male tennis player lost a tennis game to a 29yo lesbian. I felt at the time that it would be a defining moment in history. As things turned out, I was right. The King/Riggs debacle merits a discussion on MANN some day.
Hotspur

Re:Some more equal than others... (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 01:11 PM September 16th, 2005 EST (#16)
I would love to see in the name of equality see sports activities be universilally combined.

1) Tennis - virtually no women at the top
2) Golf - virtually no women at the top
3) Track & Field "
4) Soccer "
5) Weight lifting "
6) Swimming "
7) All winter sports
8) Boxing & other martial arts
9) etc, etc, etc

The only sports were women could be competative are:
1) Gymnastics
2) Figure skating
3) Air rifle
4) Billiards
Just a thought... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 01:32 PM September 17th, 2005 EST (#17)
If women earn less than men, then that means it would be cheaper to hire women in..., well, EVERYTHING! So wouldn't employers be more apt to hire women for all the jobs that men do now, including police, fire fighting, construction, waste management, etc?
But they don't. Why? because A;women tend to shy away from jobs where they might get dirty. B; because generally speaking most of those jobs require a lot of physical strength (most men have an edge there). and C;women are less likely to want a job where they could get killed. (Not that men WANT to get killed, we just tend to be more risk-taker oriented).
Any way if women did the same jobs with the same results as their male counterparts, I would EXPECT them to be paid the same amount. But as a rule they don't.

All which proves my theory that feminists are stupid, and need to sit down and shut up.

  Thundercloud.
  "Hoka hey!"
Re:Just a thought... (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 03:01 PM September 17th, 2005 EST (#18)
I agree with most of what you said - it is economics 101.

Some other points in support of statements - men (especially married men) tend to work longer hours, take jobs that require travel away from home, willing to change jobs and take career risks for higher pay, jobs that deal with conflict, less likely to quit a job when things get tough, go into fields that require hard skills...

However, I disagree about feminists being stupid. I think feminists are cunning and smart. They are also deceptive, calculating, and care nothing about fairness. Feminists are all about gaining advantage - and they have done a good job.

Re:Just a thought... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 04:15 PM September 17th, 2005 EST (#21)
"However, I disagree about feminists being stupid. I think feminists are cunning and smart. They are also deceptive, calculating, and care nothing about fairness. Feminists are all about gaining advantage - and they have done a good job."
                    This would be my reply also to TC's claim that feminists are stupid. I would add that they are unconstrained by any moral code. Thus they enthusiastically approve child murder and child sexual abuse when it suits the feminazi agenda. Indeed their moral plane is no higher than that of the Nazis. However, as was the case with the Nazis, they do not realise that they will eventually reap a whirlwind.
Hotspur
Re:Just a thought... (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 03:03 PM September 17th, 2005 EST (#19)
Word of caution - underestimating your enemy is a dangerous thing to do.
Re:Just a thought... (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 01:33 PM September 19th, 2005 EST (#24)
Okay, feminists aren't stupid.
But I still say they should sit down and shut up. :-)

  Thundercloud.
  "Hoka hey!"
Wanna Trade? (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 03:22 PM September 17th, 2005 EST (#20)
Women earn 76 cents for every dollar a man erans.

Men suffer 93% of occupational fatailities.


Re:Wanna Trade? (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 05:34 AM September 19th, 2005 EST (#22)
Or another way of putting it:

When adjusted for relevant factors, women do not earn 76 cents for every dollar a man earns. It is far closer.

No amount of adjusting changes the fact that men suffer 93% of occupational fatalities.

Re:Wanna Trade? (Score:1)
by johnnyp on 11:14 AM September 19th, 2005 EST (#23)
Your comment is accurate - but I want force simple stark choices.

I want to force the debate into more black and white choices. Feminists have gotten away with picking and choosing. I am defining the choice to take away the wiggle room.

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