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by Anonymous User on 01:24 AM July 19th, 2005 EST (#1)
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"Initially the girl blamed the attack on other children and gave police the names of children who were arrested and questioned.
The four children, who gave foolproof alibis, had been put through a "harrowing" experience, prosecutor Mr Mehran Nassiri said."
Although lying about this is not nearly as serious as the murder this young female attempted, the time is past due for female false accusers to be taken more seriously. ...and I for don't think 12 years old is too young to learn accountability for personal actions. I say, make an example of her to begin to stop the epidemic of female false accusations. Females must begin to be held accountable for their malfeasant behavior. Real victims are cheated when the actions of violent females are excused, excused, excused, and then rewarded with gender feminist, victim pampering and social services.
Ray
Prosecute False Accusers Click "View Larger"
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by Anonymous User on 06:20 AM July 19th, 2005 EST (#2)
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In the gynocracy in which we live, the word truth is defined as "whatever a woman says". Thus it is impossible for a woman to tell a lie.
Hotspur
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by Anonymous User on 11:41 AM July 19th, 2005 EST (#3)
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This is more common than most people realise.
Young girls are more and more often attacking and harming younger boys. This is primairily because we in the western world live in a culture that not only glorifies female on male violence it ENCOURAGES it. It is considered cute and/or funny for a woman to strike a man. especialy if she hits him in the genitals. Our popular culture advances it, our "entertainment" media and feminists encourages it.
This crime by this 12 year old girl is no suprise at all. These girls attack these boys because they are smaller and usualy weaker. What better time for a budding male-hater to strike?
After all we have taught our young girls that violence towards males is a womans right and perogative.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 11:43 AM July 19th, 2005 EST (#4)
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And there is no limit to how brutal or sadistic that viloence can be. In fact the more violent and sadistic the better.
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by Anonymous User on 02:13 PM July 19th, 2005 EST (#5)
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That reminds me.
I do commission art work, here localy in Indianapolis. I had a commission about a week ago where someone wanted me to do a drawing of a CAVE WOMAN. So I did a GOOGLE image search to look up "cave woman" to get some inspiration for her costume. What I saw amoung the images was a reaccuring picture of a cavewoman dragging a caveman by the testicles. It's supposed to be "funny". I tried to get a link for it to show it to you all, but I couldn't find one that worked.
Anyway if you just do an image search on GOOGLE for "cave woman" you'll most likely see it right away.
This is the kind of encouraged anti-male violence that I'm talking about.
I doubt a cave man dragging a cavewoman by the valva and anus would be seen as "funny". But do it to a male and it is.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Tirryb on 09:55 PM July 19th, 2005 EST (#6)
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I submitted a news story to this site a week or two ago which didn't make it through, but I think it's pretty relevant to this topic.
I was sat watching tv and an ad for a dishwashing powder came on (this is in Australia). I think the brand was Morning Fresh powertabs or something like that.
Anyway, the ad showed this guy fixing his motorbike. He puts some of the greasy parts and some tools into the dishwasher to clean them, using the powertabs. Then it cuts to later and his wife is unpacking the dishwasher and finds the parts. She takes them out to the shed where he's fixing the bike, shows him a part and asks what it is. He tells her (can't remember, a sump cover or something). Then she hefts up a massive spanner and asks him what it is. He tells her, and she smacks him hard in the head with it and walks off. End of ad.
I desperately tried to find a company behind the product so I could write a complaint but never did manage to track them down.
I've also become pretty horrified by the level of female-on-male violence/victimisation shown in kids shows. You watch Nick TV in particular for more than a few hours and you'll see boys being hit, embarrassed, etc. In one show a girl stole the clothes of three boys while they were all swimming at school. The three boys are left naked in the changing rooms, and when they don't come out the teacher yells at them to come out now or else. They're forced to parade naked in front of the rest of their classroom with only a floaty to cover themselves, while all the girls in the class laugh and point and give hi-fives. Somehow I just can't see Nick TV showing a similar show with roles reversed.
My daughter and two sons watch this crap, and it's a constant battle to re-educate them on what's really acceptable.
You're all right - if we continue to teach kids that beating men and boys is acceptable, and more than that it's going to win you respect from other women, then the future's going to look pretty shitty for half the human race...
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by Anonymous User on 12:28 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#7)
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Un-fortunately, this is an up hill fight. There are too many wussie-poopie males who get off sexualy on female on male violence. They get off on it as much as the females do. Maybe more so.
These are the guys that tell mens activists to "take it like a man." or say "I don't see a problem with it." Of course they don't see a problem with it, they GET OFF on it. They are toataly in bed, so to speak with feminists.
These are probably the same guys that go to their local 'dungeon' and hire dominatrixes to beat and humiliate them.
We have THRONGS of these types of guys in the "entertainment" media. I have personaly noticed in the last 5 or so years an increase in the images of men bound and humiliated, either by women or even other men. I see dominatrixes freaquently. (But never a dominant, the male equivilant of a dominatrix) I believe these men are actualy latent homosexuals. Maybe not, but it would explain why these guys get off on men in bondage and being dominated, humiliated and de-humanized. It would explain why they think it is so great to depict male genital mutilation and sexual assault.
Quentan Tarantino is particulairly and oddly fastenated by men in bondage. (Remember PULP FICTION?) I find it inexplicable, myself. Also in PULP FICTION ther is a stragely pro-longed gay-rape scene as Bruce willis' and Samuel L. Jackson's characters are sodomised while in bondage. I mean, What the Hell...?
Anyway sadistic and sexual violence against men is EXTREAMELY accepted and even lauded in this and other Western nations. The things done to men are barbarous and would NEVER be done to a female.
So where is the EQUALITY...?
I am so tired of hearing feminists squawking about wanting "equality". They have MORE than equality. They have special rights, privliges and perogatives most people in the world could ever DREAM of having!
Okay, fine. There will be true equality when men are treated the same as women, or women are depicted in entertainment and other forums with the same barbarous treatment as men.
Let's show some women bound and gagged, naked with a stun gun applied to THEIR genitals. (like one man was shown on FOX's show "24") Let's depict them in bondage and being raped by lesbians (as the men are by gays in "PULP FICTION") Let's play for comedy men beating up women, and kicking them in the genitals.
"Equality". You dumb @$$ feminists. If my people (American Indians) had it HALF as good as you pampered, coddled sows we'd consider ourselves pretty damned LUCKY!
Don't talk to us about "equality" you spoiled cry-baby jerkettes.
Okay, the more I write, the madder I'm getting. I don't want to say anything I may regret later, so I'll just stop here.
*GEEZE!*
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 05:33 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#10)
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I am native american (seneca).
A feminist.
A heterosexual man.
You think men are humiliated in cinema? That's really interesting.
Last Tango in Paris
Intolerable
The Accused
A Clockwork Orange
Last Exit to Brooklyn
Those are only a few movies, off the top of my head, that have scenes where women are humiliated and raped.
I think that the stereotype of feminists is what you're angry about. You'll find that many feminists are not what you describe.
And incidentally, if your people (tribe) have it so bad, how are you watching all the latest Tarantino movies and using the internet?
Indians were and are abused, but it is sad that you would use that fact as collateral for such a trivial argument.
thunderclouds24@yahoo.com
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by Anonymous User on 06:38 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#12)
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We do not object necessarily to films in which there is violence against men or women. We object to films in which violence against men is portrayed as humorous,acceptable or is trivialised. Yes, there are many films in which women are subjected to violence. However these films do not seek to promote the idea that violence against women is right and proper.
Hotspur
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by Anonymous User on 07:24 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#13)
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really? well, watch it sometime. violence may not be made humorous, but it is oversexualized. which is worse?
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by Anonymous User on 07:56 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#16)
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Again the essential point is that films/tv promote the idea that violence against men is more acceptable than violence against women.
Hotspur
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by AngryMan
(end_misandryNOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk)
on 03:53 AM July 21st, 2005 EST (#19)
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I'm with Hotspur on this one.
I haven't seen all of the films that you mention, but I have seen Last Tango in Paris. I take it you mean the anal sex scene? I have to point out that they were having consensual sex. I can't recall any violence at all in that film.
Let's take The Accused as an example, or Death Wish is very similar. These are tales of injustice and revenge. We see violence being done to a woman, but we are not expected to condone it - we are expected to be outraged by it. The rest of the film shows us the hero pursuing justice, and the bad guys getting their comeuppance. We feel a sense of satisfaction when we see the bad guys dying (or being jailed) at the end. Personally, I don't enjoy those films, but the violence against women is not intended to arouse us or amuse us - it is only there to provide a reason for the subsequent revenge. Violence against a woman is chosen specifically because, in the minds of the cinema audience, it is the worst kind of violation, and provides us with the greatest desire for revenge. It just wouldn't be the same if the baddies had only killed Charles Bronson's goldfish. Depicting violence is not the same as condoning violence.
I put it to you that violence against women is never portrayed as acceptable in Western cinema - it is portrayed, but it is never portrayed as acceptable. We are expected to have sympathy for the victim.
With men, on the other hand, violence against them is not only portrayed, but routinely portrayed as acceptable. It is intended to make us laugh, to amuse or entertain us, and we are not expected to have any sympathy for the victim himself.
Men are very often portrayed as disposable non-human drones. Look at the soldiers mown down in any war film, or the security officers in Star Trek whose average life span was about five seconds.
Where men are not sub-human extras, they are often bad guys who deserve to suffer, or they are heroes who suffer but survive.
It is not just about violence. By mentioning violent films you are clouding the issue. Men are often humiliated for our entertainment. In comedies which often contain no violence at all, men are made to look stupid, they are embarassed in front of their children, publicly humiliated, made to look incompetent. It is not socially acceptable for women to be portrayed in that way.
You mention rape in the cinema, but consider how male rape is portrayed. It is almost always a joke. Take 'There's something about Mary' or even 'Pulp Fiction'. If the rape scene in Pulp Fiction had featured female victims, there would have been outrage against it, but the victins were male, and it was a joke.
The standards which apply to men and women are different. The mere presence of violence in a film is not the issue.
"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." Louis D Brandeis, Supreme Court Justice, 1913
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by Anonymous User on 01:08 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#22)
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Well, I also have T-shirts, a job, and (at least some) food to eat.
Just because I have it somewhat better than other Indians doesn't tivialize the plight of a large number of American Indians.
Some Black people live in the Hamptons and have high paying jobs. Does that trivialize the plight of poor Blacks living in the Ghettos?
Believe me as Indians, in general, we have it NOWHERE near as good as the majority of (especialy White) women.
Is a majority of White women living in squalid conditions on some God-forsaken reservation with the federal government watching their every move (via the B.I.A.)? No. Are a majority of White women living in shacks with no electricity and no running water as many of the Lakota and Navajo are? No. Do the majority of White women lack in educational choices? No. Do the Majority of White women face violence at epidemic proportions, more than ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE ON EARTH the way many Indian men (including myself) Do? No. We Indians are more likely to have to put up with racial slurs, harassment and bigotry in the work place, as well. I have PERSONALY had to deal with it ALOT. And much of the time the supervisors won't lift a FINGER to stop it. Even Blacks don't have to put up with that as much as we do.
Also I am an Indian activist as well as a men's activist so don't tell me that what I stand against is "trivial". No bigotry against any human or group of human beings is "trivial". I don't care if it is against Men, Women, Whites, Blacks, Asians, Indians, Hispanics, or whoever. Bigotry is wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I will not tolerate it against anyone for one second.
Also. You have no way of knowing this unless you've been on this site for a few years, but I was also a male feminist, back in my college days.(late 80's, early 90's) I protested the depictions of women on those DETECTIVE magazines found in drug stores. They often depicted women bound and gagged and\or being raped by men. I PROTESTED AGAINST THEM! And that protest WON! Not only do you NOT see women depicted that way on detective magazines, you don't see detective magazines much if at all anymore. Why? Because people like me PROTESTED AGAINST THEM.
As far as movies like "A CLOCK WORK ORANGE" and others are conserned There was and still is protest against them for their portrayal of violence against women. And those protests are taken siriously by the "entertainment" media. By the way If memory serves me in "a CLOCKWORK ORANGE" the man AND the woman were in 'bondage'. I have never seen that movie and don't care to. 'y know why? BECAUSE OF THAT VERY SCENE!
And as others have pointed out, the depictions of violence against women are RARELY ever portrayed as "funny" or acceptable. Where as violence against men is played for laughes and sado-masochistic sexual effect.
You honestly don't think that a bound and gagged, naked man being shocked in the groin with a tazer wasn't sexual for ALOT of women (and even some men). Come on. I don't think any one can be THAT naive.
And if you are Indian. (and I believe you are) You, more than ANYONE should know what tremendous DAMAGE bigotry in ANY form can and does cause. ANY FORM. You must also be aware of the cyclical nature of things. What goes around comes around.
When this whole thing comes back on feminism, and it will because it always does, what do you think the results will be? Alot of women will be harmed socialy, economicaly and politicaly.
For instance, I have asked ALOT of men if they would vote for a female president. The ansewer was usualy "No.". And do you know what the number one reason was (is) that they wouldn't? It is because of the way they feel women view men. (With consternation, and hatred) Would you, as an Indian vote for a member of a White hate-group, like the Klan? Not if you're smart. And why not? (That should be obvious.) So feminism is already reaping what it has sown. It reaps hate and resentment (of men) and it is begining to sow distrust and waryness of men. Do you think Hillary Clinton will be president? No way. Not in this day and age, and for the very reasons I have stated.
So please, don't try to write me off as some kind of hypocrite who de-cries the mistreatment of men while ignoring the mistreatment of women. I have protested on behalf of BOTH and will always do so.
You might want to do a morality check on feminism though. Because they do exactly what you accused me of. They decry the mistreatmet of women in media but ignore the mistreatment of men in the media. In fact they APPLAUD it. When have you EVER heared a feminist critisize the 'groin kick' against men? My bet is, never.
So maybe you need to get a grip. or a cup of coffee with some cream in it, or SOMETING...!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by jenk on 01:10 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#23)
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This is why we have not had television in our home for over a year now. TBQ
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by Anonymous User on 01:24 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#24)
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You're back!
where 'ya been?!?
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by jenk on 01:42 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#26)
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Over at SYG, mostly. Trying my own blog on and off, I did make it too the men's congress with Dave, it was awesome. I've missed you guys but was a little nervous coming back. I am silly sometimes.
TBQ
Oh, did any of you hear that Thea is now a woman's studies major? Apparently all you oppressive woman hating chauvanist pigs drove her to it. *rolling eyes*
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by Anonymous User on 02:27 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#28)
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I noticed her posts stopped abruptly after she was subjected to some nasty (anonymous) attacks on this board. I suspected at the time that it was a feminist troll at work, trying to drive her away from MANN. I was probably right.
"Hell hath no fury....."
Hotspur
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by Anonymous User on 02:34 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#29)
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I'm sorry we've lost her. (Thea that is)
I was wondering what had happened to her.
I'll miss her. She was bright and fiesty. And I thought un-turnable. Un-fourtunately I was wrong...,
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 02:35 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#30)
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It feels bad when a freind becomes an enemy.
I guess that's what Thea has become to us, now.
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by jenk on 02:55 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#32)
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I have not had any direct contact with her, I started on a blog where she told her story of her change of heart. She was an extremist who went from one extreme to the other. They are not so far apart, after all, just different sides of the same coin. But I understand that her energy would be refreshing and welcome, and I am sorry you had to lose that. Who knows, she was not stupid, perhaps she will see through the crap and arrive at a middle ground someday.
TBQ
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by Anonymous User on 05:18 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#33)
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I understand where you're coming from, and there are a lot of people (regardless of race, creed, gender) who are bigots and hypocrites. Both women and men, blacks and whites, etc. etc. I think it is important to remember that not all feminists are bull dyke man haters just as not all men's rights activists are wife-beating woman haters.
And the fact that so many people in this world are blind (especially the privileged, which are few, when you consider the statistics), that's when designations and labels are thrown up. It makes me sad to see people box themselves into the stereotypes that they fight so desperately to be rid of. I agree with you on many counts. But many people (black/white/native american/hispanic and so on) are poor and underprivileged. I live in a rural ghetto, but work in a place where I have access to a computer. I see many people who are clearly poor or in need or homeless, and I see just as many whites as blacks and indians. It just depends. This is what the rich people want. They want us to fight over "the issues" that we have little or no control over, because it keeps us divided. And that division keeps us from rising. I identify with Feminism and Native American activism and any group of people who are abused because they are "weaker." But one of my closest friends is half Irish, and though they are white, they were abused in the course of this country's history as well. And he suffers with poverty as much as I do. We all have more in common (collectively as the POOR) than we ever had in common with the rich who take the power. Whether those rich people are male, female, white, Native American, black. I used to be angry and passionate about these issues, too. But as long as the finger is pointed at another label, nothing will change.
I appreciate your views, and as another Native American, I understand (really). Be well.
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by Anonymous User on 12:18 AM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#34)
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"For instance, I have asked ALOT of men if they would vote for a female president. The ansewer was usualy "No."
"Do you think Hillary Clinton will be president? No way. Not in this day and age, and for the very reasons I have stated."
"You might want to do a morality check on feminism though. Because they do exactly what you accused me of. They decry the mistreatmet of women in media but ignore the mistreatment of men in the media. In fact they APPLAUD it. When have you EVER heared a feminist critisize the 'groin kick' against men?"
There appears to be some violence in this animation, but it's pretty balanced.
Ray
Hillary Can't Wait till 2008
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by Anonymous User on 12:20 AM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#35)
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"Oh, did any of you hear that Thea is now a woman's studies major? Apparently all you oppressive woman hating chauvanist pigs drove her to it. *rolling eyes*"
Oink, oink.
Ray
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by AngryMan
(end_misandryNOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk)
on 03:22 AM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#37)
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Thea is now a woman's studies major?
Disaster! What was she thinking? Did she flunk law and have to take something easier? She's still young though. Hopefully she'll grow out of it.
"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." Louis D Brandeis, Supreme Court Justice, 1913
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by Anonymous User on 01:32 PM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#41)
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Okay, I think I see better where you're coming from.
But you have to understand that most feminists ARE upper-middle to upper class white women.
If they get their way the plight of American Indians ESPECIALY the men is going to be MUCH worse than it is now.
I have heard feminists who use the old stereotype that Indian men opressed "their" women historicaly. And that is just NOT true.
In fact (as you may already know) many Native tribes, including mine (the Cherokee)were nearly if not completely a MATRIARCHY. But yet many feminists use the "opressive Indian male" stereotype and other out right lies to further their cause.
And that cause IS the subjegation of men. I have talked to feminists that don't even bother to deny that fact. Again My Indian activism and men's activism meld together in this case because I see that if the radical feminists get their way (And they all too often do) that the burdon on Indian men is going to be devistating. That will filter down to the children and even our women eventually. Our men already have enough to contend with. What with the rampant drug and alcohol abuse, violent crimes committed against us (again more than any group of people on the planet)75% or higher unemployment and the highest suicide rate for any ethnic group, the last thing Indian males need is the feminists and the willing federal government to place yet one more burdon on our shoulders. I believe that this could be the one last thing to finaly destroy Indian people as a whole. It will be the men first. it usually is, but the women and children will not be far behind.
And now with the VAWA being renewed, if it is so in it's preasent form I think we indian men can begin kissing our butts good-bye. And why? Because a group of (mostly white) women (and some men) want to punish ALL men regardless of race, ethnicity, or color for crimes committed by a very SMALL number of men. And most of these "crimes" occured before most of us were even born.
And Yes I know not all feminsits are foaming at the mouth "dyke" types. I have talked with very reasonable feminists that do talk about legitimate consernes. They are not the problem. The ones who ARE the problem AND get the ear and aid of the federal government ARE the foaming at the mouth types. (in some cases literaly). feminists get laws and legislation passed. Very anti-male laws and legislation to be sure. These laws and legislations are not passed to beniffit the whole of the country but the few. AND they are INDEED designed to opress a certain group of people. Maybe these feminists do not see the consequences on American Indians through teir actions. But it doesn't matter the consequences are still the consequences. They will run rough-shod over any one to get their way.
They are dangerous, they are evil (yes I used the "E" word) they are destroying lives (and not just Indian lives) and they must be stopped.
You, personaly may not be one of those feminists that hates men to the very core of her soul, and that's fine. My beef isn't with feminists like yourself. It is with the ones that would not be opposed to a gendercidal holocaust, and are doing what they can to have the best one they can get. Remember not all haulocausts and exterminations need gulag and gas-chambers. To destroy a people all you have to do is hate and act on it. It gathers momentum on it's own and as Indians we BOTH know what the results will be in the end if that end is allowed to be.
I for one will not allow it. Not again, not this time.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 05:14 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#9)
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I was glad to come upon a site that gives men the chance to take a side on things. Of course, the the first thing I happened upon was this post (which seems to me to be a complete waste of this webpages space). I can't believe that "Ray" is using an issue occurring between twelve year old CHILDREN as fodder for an argument against feminism.
And as for applying the term: "female false accusors," well, that just pissed me off. It is estimated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation that only 37% of the violent sexual crimes perpetrated against women are reported by the (woman) victim annually. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.
The rest are often never reported at all. I address this "female false accusers" label in terms of sexual assault/harassment because I gather from the author of this posts attitude, that is one of the "false accuser" areas he is referring to. And I strongly disagree. Opinion is one thing, but for the love of God, don't make such a ridiculous stab at tearing down women when it isn't even slightly supported in fact. Any twelve year old (male OR female)is going to have it easier in our law system than, say, a middleaged tattooed biker. I am rather fond of women, and the yearly rate of assault is disconcertingly high. "False Accusers" or not. It makes the rest of us men look stupid when someone posts in this kind of ignorance.
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by Anonymous User on 06:29 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#11)
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You suggest there is under-reporting of genuine rape cases. You may be right. However it is ludicrous to suggest that under-reportage of genuine rape means there is a low incidence of false rape allegations. The evidence for a high incidence of false rape allgations is overwhelming.
You imply that we object that a twelve year old should have it easier in our law system. Your implication is false and insulting.
Hotspur
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by Anonymous User on 07:32 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#14)
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I merely suggest that women are already taught to be silent in this country when it comes to sexual violence. though i agree that a woman has no right to falsely accuse a man of an act of sexual violence, it isn't right to suggest that only females "falsely accuse" on a number of issues, and not males as well. would a male twelve year old have been believed any less than a female? or are you suggesting that if he had been male, he wouldn't have lied about it.
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by Anonymous User on 07:50 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#15)
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I am not aware that there is a significant incidence of false allegations of violence made by men against women. This is not to say that it NEVER occurs.
"would a male twelve year old have been believed any less than a female?" Probably yes, in my opinion.
Hotspur
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by Anonymous User on 08:00 AM July 21st, 2005 EST (#20)
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A 12-year-old boy certainly would have been treated differently. He'd end up with a 10-year sentence in a Young Offenders Institute, whilst this girl will almost certainly just get a slap on the wrist, as well as an Honorary Scholarship from the Women's Studies faculty at the local college for her contributions to fighting The Evil Patriarchy (TM).
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by jenk on 01:06 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#21)
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We are certainly NOT taught to be quiet when it comes to sexual violence. We are told again and again that the victim is never at fault, we are told that we will be protected if we come forward (rape shield laws), we are given state funded therapy, legal representation, and protection. I am a 34 year old woman and I have never been told to keep quiet about sexual violence, or domestic violence, or any other kind of violence. Even as early as the early 1900s, white women were protected from standing trial at rape hearings if the alleged perpetrator was a black man. The black man was lynched on her word alone.
Not only are we protected and supported after real violence, but we are protected from taking any responsibility for putting ourselves severely at risk (walking home at night half naked and drunk,) we are told that we do not have to be clear about not consenting ( saying nothing can and has been legally construed as lack of consent) and we can change our minds afterwards and still manage to get a rape conviction. We can be told a joke or given a compliment or looked at and sue for sexual harrassment. We have been told to keep quiet? By WHOM?
These things lessen the importance and expirience of those who have been truly violated. Excusing any and all behavior keeps women from learning how to behave smarter and avoid the violence to begin with. There are male and female violent criminals out there, and pretending there are not is niave and dangerous.
I would love to see you back up your assertion that women are told to be silent by some proof, or at least examples.
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by Anonymous User on 01:29 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#25)
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Actually, Isn't it MEN who are told to be silent about violence against them? especialy if they are attacked by a woman?
If not what is the demand by feminists and like-minded women for guys to: "Shut up and take it like a man!"?
Jinx
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by jenk on 01:48 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#27)
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Yes, men are not only told to shut up and take it, but there are no men's shelters, no therapy which is geared towards a male perspective (action as opposed to talking) and little enforcement of protection orders since 'women don't hurt men.'
The whole excuse of women not coming forward is denied when it is men doing the same, when in fact men have much stronger reasons not to come forward, such as more ridicule and public support of the accused as a victim.
The idea that women are supposed to be silent is based on the way it was for some women victims 50 years ago, ignoring all the changes made in the last 40 years.
Feminism is all about making use of all the changes while at the same time denying them.
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by AngryMan
(end_misandryNOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk)
on 03:27 AM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#38)
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Jenk,
Why can't I meet more women like you?
"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." Louis D Brandeis, Supreme Court Justice, 1913
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by jenk on 06:59 AM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#39)
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Because the only reason I am the way I am is Dave put up with 8 years of my shit before I finally started coming around. When I met Dave I was about as bratty as they come. That man is one stubborn old coot. ;-)
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by LSBeene on 01:08 AM July 21st, 2005 EST (#18)
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If a person (male or female) learns at an early age that a false allegation is "not that bad" then later in life when they do it they will do it more casually, for less important reasons, and with more cunning.
Many women ARE raped. No F/MRA is disputing that. However we do take serious issue with the fact that false allegations are dealt with lightly, especially since the devastation that is wreaked upon the REAL victim often lasts a lifetime.
As to how often women lie about rape?
An U.S.A.F study had 60% of the women who had leveled an accusation ADMIT they lied about it shortly after or just before they took a polygraph.
A study known informally as the "Kanin Report" showed that in a mid-sized city where it was conducted that 40% of women ADMITTED they had lied about rape.
Maybe you are new to this, maybe you are a troll, but in either case you are coming to a site where men who have studied gender issues, and who are well read, are posting.
If you care to know more, let me know.
Respectfully,
L. Steven Beene II
Guerrilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 08:57 AM July 24th, 2005 EST (#42)
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I'm always interested when a feminist/troll whatever visits and posts at this site. It matters not whether they are male or female (tho' interestingly, they nearly always claim to be a male who is aghast at other men who have issues with feminism) - they always reveal something of the vacuum which gender feminism thought processes reside in.
We mention false accusations, he/she mentions rape incidence as though that outweighs any valid concern over false accusations.
We mention making violence against men in movies acceptable, he/she mentions Last Tango in Paris and The Accused as direct comparators from a female perspective.
This last part is actually quite revealing. Why would someone mention a consensual sex scene from a movie as evidence of violence or the acceptability of violence against women. Someone who considers all sex violence?
What about The Accused? - a justice and retribution movie where many men help to bring the rapists to account. In what way does that justify or propmote violence against women?
The reality is that many feminists simply refuse to consider that things like portrayal/stereotyping of men, violence against men, a legal bias against men in many cases (sentence length, child support) etc. are remotely of concern. The fantasyland Patriarchy theory gives them an out - namely, an oppressor class cannot really suffer in comparison to the oppressed. It doesn't matter how logically and factually you evidence any of our concerns, the feminist believes it's irrelevant compared to the problems women have.
I still like the fact though that any feminist that comes to this site has to read that certain people will not sit back and let feminist dogma be propagated without challenge. Women's Studies classes don't have much scope for dissent from "oppressors" - this is probably a new experience.
Rob
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by Anonymous User on 10:31 AM July 24th, 2005 EST (#43)
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And we also hit them (feminists) with varafiable facts, like T.C. did. (and does freaquently) That usualy makes them madder or shuts them up, one of the two.
Most feminists these days are a bunch of morons, and that, too, is easily provable.
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by Anonymous User on 11:43 AM July 24th, 2005 EST (#44)
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Thank you, Anon.
I do TRY to make sure the statistical info I post here is fact.
That is why we differ from and will eventually overcome the militant femroids. We use fact, they use fiction.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 10:37 PM July 20th, 2005 EST (#17)
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She did it in self-defense!
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by Anonymous User on 02:37 PM July 21st, 2005 EST (#31)
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Oh, Yes. Of course. Clearly.
*Rolls eyes*
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 12:35 AM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#36)
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"She did it in self-defense!"
Self defense is largely based on using force that's appropriate to resist the force being used against you. Let's see if someone hits you with a water baloon do you hit them in the head with a rock, stab them or shoot them? I don't think so. That's not self-defense.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on 12:44 PM July 22nd, 2005 EST (#40)
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The feminists' BRAINS are water baloons...!
Crabby Goblin
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