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by Anonymous User on 03:48 PM May 5th, 2005 EST (#1)
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If I understood the judge's rationale for rejecting Lynddie's guilty plea, it was because the sexual humiliation of Iraqui male prisoners had become "standard and routine" procedure at Abu Ghraib prison.
Therefore, if Ms. England believed she was "just following orders," then she could not have felt she was "guilty."
I thought there was a code of ethics in the U.S. military that permits a soldier to reject orders if as an individual the soldier believes that the orders are immoral, illegal, or criminal.
Can someone with military experience comment please?
The obvious path for Lynddie's defense team now is to argue that she engaged in acts which, though heinous and sadistic, had in fact become a routine part of the prison command's protocol.
If this line of inquiry is pursued in trial, it will lead inevitably to exposing just "how high up" in the line of command these procedures were authorized.
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by Anonymous User on 10:00 PM May 5th, 2005 EST (#2)
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I heard a military lawyer interviewed on the radio about this. He said that the judge denied her guilty plea because the plea was contradictory. Her lawyer plead guilty, then offered a defense for her actions. If you plead guilty you can't then offer a defense. The judge questioned the competency of her lawyer (implying that she might want to get another one). The charge is going to be resubmitted, which according to this lawyer, was not a good thing for Lynddie.
--CY
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by OldManSenile on 09:11 AM May 7th, 2005 EST (#5)
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I thought there was a code of ethics in the U.S. military that permits a soldier to reject orders if as an individual the soldier believes that the orders are immoral, illegal, or criminal.
Its not ethics, its instuctions, regulations and laws. As a military member we have more than just U.S. and State laws to follow. We also have the UCMJ(Uniform Code of Military Justice), and International law.
I found info for ya in the MCM(Manual for Courts Martial), UCMJ, AFJI 31-304 (Air Force Joint Instuction), and LOAC(at the Air Force JAG site).
The LOAC is a on-line power point presentation.
Links will be at tyhe end of the post.
From the MCM
Rule 916
Discussion
The duty may be imposed by statute, regulation, or order. For example, the use of force by a law enforcement officer when reasonably necessary in the proper execution of a lawful apprehension
is justified because the duty to apprehend is imposed by lawful authority. Also, killing an enemy combatant in battle is justified.
(d) Obedience to orders. It is a defense to any offense that the accused was acting pursuant to orders unless the accused knew the orders to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the orders to be unlawful.
(Italics mine)
Discussion
Ordinarily the lawfulness of an order is finally decided by the military judge. See R.C.M. 801(e). An exception might exist when the sole issue is whether the person who gave the order in
fact occupied a certain position at the time.
An act performed pursuant to a lawful order is justified. See subsection (c) of this rule. An act performed pursuant to an
unlawful order is excused unless the accused knew it to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known it to be unlawful.
SubSection C
(c) Justification. A death, injury, or other act caused or done in the proper performance of a legal duty is justified and not unlawful.
Torture & humiliation are not proper performance or legal.
From the UCMJ
§ 892. Art. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation
Any person subject to this chapter who—
( 1 ) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
§ 893. Art. 93. Cruelty and maltreatment
Any person subject to this chapter who is guilty of cruelty toward, or oppression or maltreatment of, any person subject to his orders shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
§ 928. Art. 128. Assault
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who attempts or offers
with unlawful force or violence to do bodily harm to another person, whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated, is guilty of assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may
direct.
(b) Any person subject to this chapter who—
( 1 ) Commits an assault with a dangerous weapon or other means or force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm; or
(2) commits an assault and intentionally inflicts grievous bodily harm with or without a weapon;
is guilty of aggravated assault and shall be punished as a court martial may direct.
§ 934. Art. 134. General article
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the
armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons
subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by general, special, or summary court martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
Here are the links
MCM
UCMJ
AFJI 31-304
LOAC
As far as Lyndie is concerned. I hope she rotts in Levenworth for a very long time. I am so sick of people using the I didn't know excuse.
I sure in the heck don't want her in the military.
Just my 2 cents
OMS
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by Anonymous User on 01:02 PM May 6th, 2005 EST (#3)
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I thought her name was LYNDEE, or something like that. (?)
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by Anonymous User on 01:26 PM May 6th, 2005 EST (#4)
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I still say that much of what happened at Abu Ghraib wouldn't have happened if this culture did not accept, revil in, and encourage humiliation (particularly sexual humiliation) of males as it does.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Pvt. Melissa England isn't even