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by Anonymous User on 02:28 PM June 24th, 2004 EST (#1)
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"Gender never changes"??
Appearantly he's never been to San Francisco...!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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>>>The owner of the restaurant where the ladies night policy was originally challenged claimed that ladies nights are a benefit for men.
Well of course. The modern human male is so drugged up on the need for females that of course, satiating the addiction is "good" for them.
>>>an individual claims that the man would not have challenged ladies nights if he had a girlfriend.
Ah yes, the good ole "you just need a girlfriend ploy, which of course goes hand in hand with the "modern human male is so drugged up on the need for females" idea.
>>>Some men supposedly preferred places with more women.
Back to my first point.
>>>The executive director of the ACLU in NJ said that ladies nights discrimination was not as serious as discrimination against women and minorities but that she did support the ban
Of course not. When is discrimination against males *ever* considered a serious problem, let alone when compared to the horrid atrocity that women face when they encounter discrimination?
Bottom line: Society feels that there is absolutely *no* reason for discriminating against females, while there is always *some* justification for discriminating against males. The problem is that males are unable to see past their need for females that they are unable to see the limitations they have as long as their addicted is fed.
R
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by Anonymous User on 03:11 PM June 24th, 2004 EST (#3)
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Ladies Night exists because there is a difference between men and women in the elasticity of demand for bar patronage. The bars charge men more because men are willing to pay more. Stop going to the bars that feature ladies nights and the bars will stop having them.
If the men's movement wants credibility, we need to focus on the MAJOR issues. For example:
Ending the Military Draft
Criminalization of Paternity Fraud
Closing the Life Expectancy Gap
Protecting Fathers and Fathers' Rights
Stopping Violence Against Men
Fixing the Education Lag
Addressing Male Suicide
Funding for Men's Health
Addressing the Mass Inprisonment of Men
This is not an exhaustive list.
Amperro
Paranoia Is A Virtue.
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I agree that this is not a "major" concern, but it is an interesting litmus test to see if people are willing to accept just a little harmless gender discrimination.
A couple things you left off your list would be:
Ending the ridicule of the male gender in the media
Stopping the treatment of men as second class citizens
I would assert that these nights where men must pay full price while "ladies" drink cheap treats men as second class citizens. When we object, we are ridiculed as men without girlfriends or whatever. So I come down on the side of "go ahead and sue them." I say, cut no one any slack who demeans us, even if it's "for our own good."
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Anon, I like your list, but I'd prefer to see a gender-neutral draft if there has to be a draft.
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I think that we should tackle auto insurance. Unlike beer, we are legally required to purchase that.
Amperro
Paranoia Is A Virtue.
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Absolutely...it has always boggled my mind that this practice exists.
Jeff/This is not equality
"All human laws which contradict God's laws, we are bound in conscience to disobey." George Mason
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Well, it sure didn't take long for a wussie-poopy male legislator to introduce a bill against the "outrage" of denying women preferential treatment, now, did it?
But it's funny. This bill will cause feminists to be hoist on their own petard. Unisex hair salons, for instance, now will be able to charge more for women, since there is a valid "economic reason" - it takes longer to cut women's hair on average.
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Back in the days when sex was a sin instead of a social injustice, and it was legal to buy a woman a drink in a bar as an invitation to talk to that woman, then I would have no objection to a "lady's night" whatsoever.
Now, however, that would pretty much be grounds to charge the guy who bought the drink with attempted rape and sue the owner of the bar for not being sufficiently dilligent in protecting his female clientelle from sexual harassment.
That being the case charging women less for liquor is discrimination plain and simple.
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Discrimination is discrimination. It doesn't matter how you disect it, it is discrimination. If we went back to the all male saloons and bars and other things people would sure have a problem.
I would like them to roll back insurance in this state where if your a parent of a 16 year old male your rates automatically double. What galls me is that they seem to forget about who is the predominant war veteran, prison guinea pig, high risk worker in this country, steel worker, high rise construction, fire, police, taxi cab driver..etc...etc...etc which might just skew those death statistics a little when those glorified actuaries do their rate assessments.
Now were going to have to listen to ad-nauseum advertising about how a women is ____ drugged every blah blah blah and yet our state is right there to contribute as long as there is a recognized tax incentive to them. What a bunch of friggen hypocrites.
This is in my opinion the proof of the pudding.
"Banzhaf, who teaches public interest law, said three of his female law students successfully attacked Ladies' Night in the District of Columbia for perpetuating "the stereotype that women aren't economically secure."
"They also felt it was incredibly demeaning that women were being used as sex lures to get men into bars," Banzhaf said."
Sadly its only a matter of time before that pendulum comes crashing back, I shudder to think of the repercussions when it does.
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Then I suppose the Ladies' Night proponents are all OK with the idea of a White Night. Free drinks for whites only. No no don't worry, this does not discriminate against blacks(or other non-whites), it's actually for their benefit. You see, by offering free drinks and admission to white people, there will be more of them there to schmooze with.
Back to reality... Of course it's discriminatory! It's not "reverse" discrimination! It's just plain discrimination no matter how much pretty pink lace you dress it up in! I personally would like to allow businesses to charge whatever the hell they want to anyone, but since the "discrimination" label is only applied in certain situations, my position is to outlaw all of it, even if it means grandma will have to pay the full 99 cents for her burger on Tuesdays.
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The bill, by Assemblyman Joseph Cryan, D-Union, was tightened by the committee to make it apply specifically to Ladies' Nights. Bars and restaurants would be permitted to offer discounts based on sex "for economic purposes only."
So for economic discounts you could open a restaraunt and charge $1,000 for a burger but offer a 100% discount to male clients? (for economic purposes only").
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