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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @05:12PM EST (#3)
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"And let's thank Claire's as well"
Well, I don't think they did this out of the goodness of their hearts. For me personally, I don't think they deserve thanks for stopping their sale of hate merchandise just because they were given bad press and boycotted..... Maybe if they donated to DV shelters for men from the profits they made off those shirts, then they 'might' deserve thanks. But, well, even then I wouldn't thank them, I'd just be less hostile. I don't think anyone deserves thanks just because they stopped selling hate mercahndise. But that's just me.
But don't let me stop anyone from thanking them.
p. george
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @09:45PM EST (#18)
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"Every bodys smilin', (sunshine day)
Everybodys laughin, (sunshine day)
Everybody seems so happy today, it's a sunshine daaayy!"
I hate that song, but as soon as I saw this post I just HAD to sing it!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @02:02PM EST (#68)
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Tom,
Back at ya! (^_^)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @05:17PM EST (#4)
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YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Truly a victory of David and Goliath proportions. The strategy must be total focus of all our resources on one target at a time..
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Whoo~ah!!
Boy it is nice to hear good news! Major thanks to Glenn, and all who wrote.
I think we SHOULD thank Claires, even though they really did nothing selflessly, but to simply reinforce the deed. It IS the deed which counts, not the why.
Whoooohoo!
The Biscuit Queen
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Don't thank Claires too soon. I talked with them on the phone and they indeed confirmed that they had evaluated the D&G situation and have decided not to re-order any merchandise with the phrase "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them." This is good. However, they have not commented on whether they will continue to sell this merchandise prior to re-ordering. Likely they will continue to sell it until their stock runs out. They openly state that they will continue to carry D&G products without this phrase and refused to confirm the above in any way other than via a phone conversation. I don't see an ounce of credible social conscience from this company. I don't trust them and I won't be thanking them for anything in the near future.
Yes, this is a huge victory for us. Go Glen! This needs to be celebrated and a lesson learned in focusing our power. However, this particular company is no sweetheart. Use caution.
YMMV.
Mens Rights 2004 Congress
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However, they have not commented on whether they will continue to sell this merchandise prior to re-ordering.
I also haven't seen any commitment to not re-order them at some time in the future. To me, this is all the more reason to send them some positive feedback, making clear our expectation that they will GET RID OF THIS JUNK and that we will be checking for its absence.
My email to them:
Subject: CUSTOMER APPRECIATION
Dear Claire's management team,
I am writing to express my appreciation to you for deciding to discontinue selling anti-boy products. Thank you for recognizing your social responsibilities.
Several of my friends with young daughters had joined in the effort to inform you of the objectionable nature of the products you were carrying. It will be a pleasure to let them know that they and their daughters can patronize your stores without worrying about running into such mean-spirited, hostile messages.
Sincerely,
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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Once it became clear that Claire's was being "unresponsive" I did send out a message to about 20 friends with whom I'd never discussed men's issues before. 4 of the 5 who wrote back to tell me they were joining in were fathers of Claire's-age daughters. One had already seen the "Boys are stupid" stuff on his own and sent them a letter of complaint two months ago.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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I stumbled across this article while actually searching for some of the David and Goliath products, and I honestly cannot believe this little campaign of Glenn Sacks has gone this far. The slogans used in the David and Goliath line are jokes. The creators are not actually suggesting that people literally throw rocks at anyone. I am a firm believer in equal rights and am strongly against perpetuating stereotypes, but I also believe strongly in the First Amendment. If you do not find the slogans amusing, don't buy the product. There have been MILLIONS upon millions of t-shirts and other merchandise depicting derogatory images and slogans against and/or degrading women, and there will continue to be probably until the end of time. There are several websites and shops across the country like that of T-Shirt Hell that contain t-shirts and bumper stickers with similar slogans against women, such as "YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS IS MY LITTLE WH**E!" and "VAGINAS ARE WEIRD!" I do not agree with these products and I find almost every one of them offensive, but I would never boycott, obsess, or demand them to be obliterated from the planet just because I do not like them. The day we allow others to decide what we can or cannot buy is the day we lose the very freedom on which this country was founded. I will continue to buy David and Goliath products (most of which say nothing about boys at all) because I find them amusing, and because that is my right as an American citizen. As for this website overall, I think it is an abomination and an affront to all women and men alike. The ridiculous accusations and the subjects you discuss amazes me. Women have been fighting for equality for centuries and are still seen by most of the world as second class citizens. It is beyond me how you can believe otherwise. I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy world you all live in where women, or anything but old upper class white men, are controlling this country. Your constant comments about how women are consumers and therefore rule the world is almost as ludicrous as your beliefs that these t-shirts are going to somehow scar some little boy for life who, believe me, is far more interested in playing Playstation or soccer than he is to pay any attention to some girl's clothing line. You all go on talking about men's rights & justice, yet you continue to degrade and belittle women. I ran across several posts last night in which many of you were swapping jokes and laughing it up about as many demeaning and stereotypical comments toward women as you could come up with for your own hypothetical t-shirt slogans. I honestly do not see how that is any better than what you're supposedly fighting against. In fact, the comments and jokes I read were far worse than the slogans printed on the David and Goliath shirts. As far as the most recent comments are concerned, I find it absolutely appalling that you would compare the horrific actions of the Nazi party to a retail corporation selling sarcastically humorous merchandise. Why don't you try using all this negative energy on something more productive and worth fighting against. There are worse things in the world than sick humor. Go outside and live life instead of sitting at your computers stewing and obsessing over trivial matters.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @10:54PM EST (#24)
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Paragraphs would be greatly helpful.
First you tell us they are just joking and that men shouldn't take them seriously and you'll still buy their products.
Then further down you complain about men making jokes about women.
Tell, me are there jokes on tv radio, movies about kicking women in the vagina? No there isn't, but there is a constant theme of men being kicked in the balls as fun and humorous. Are you equally against thes jokes as you would be if they were about women?
Are there jokes about women being raped on tv, radio, movies? No, there isn't, and if there were there'd be utter outrage from you and just about everyone else. Yet, there are plenty of jokes to go around about men being raped, especially in prison. How do you think men who've been raped feel like? Oh, there's not enough men who are raped to care?
Is there a constant anti-woman theme throughout society such as these two things? And where there is misogyny don't women have groups to speak out against it? You say you are about equality, why would you deny men this right?
You speak of freedom for the owner to make these shirts. Yet, as far as I can see no mens activist has stoped this man from making those shirts. What mens activist's have done is talk about them, write letters, and boycott. And compelled a business to stop selling the anti-male t-shirts. Surely you who cares so much about the capitalist's rights in selling whatever he/she wants wouldn't deny the right of another capitalist the right to not sell what he she wishes?
No one has forced anyone to stop buying anything, we've just reduced one place that it can be bought at.
I believe strongly in the first ammendment as well. Although I do not believe this right is given to me by the state, nor do I need the state for this right. The first ammendment was something that was written to protect the govt. from infringing on this 'inalienable' right. Like you said we have the right not to buy from them, we also have the feedom of speech to speak out against what we oppose to whomever we want, and use rational arguments for why others might want to adopt the same/similar idea or belief.
Using your logic, you are denying us the first ammendment. But, I don't agree with your logic.
"The day we allow others to decide what we can or cannot buy is the day we lose the very freedom on which this country was founded."
For me personally, I don't want to force anyone to buy or not buy something. But, me being against our consumerist culture finds it amusing that you use this freedom as the foundation of this country. I believe there is much more to freedom than to say this is freedom's foundation
By the way, I'm someone who does believe it is upper class old white men who rule this country. But I'm not so much of a misogynist to deny the power that women have.
I've had to deal with an anti-male bias my whole life that made me hate myself for being male. Now that may not be good enough for you to think I have any right whatsoever in opposing misandry but thankfully I'm learning to express my opinions without the need conformity to others.
p. George
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How many times have you run accross "YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS IS MY LITTLE WHORE" in an upscale clothing store? The fact that you post two fringe products and assert that they compare in any way to D&G mainstream offerings is indicatave of a very poor argument... and judgement.
I did a quick search for the above quote on a t-shirt, I found it for sale here:
http://amoraltshirts.com/prdctpgs/wrong.html
and the funny thing is... at least that sleazy site was an equal opportunity affront to all, men and women both. I personally don't have a problem with that, in fact I wouldn't mind if they carried D&G products... because that's the sort of cesspool that they belong in.
You do not have to obsess about these products... because there's thousands of radical feminists out there doing it FOR you. How long would such products be allowed in the mainstream before there was a unified whine of outrage from your radical womyns studies sisters. Send your teenage daughter to a school every day where the guys are wearing "Girls are morons" clothes and then come tell me you don't think it's a problem.
When hypocritical people like yourself can post a picture of a boy wearing a shirt to school that says "Girls are stupid - throw rocks at them" (and not a picture of them getting thrown out of school for it) THEN I'll give such poor polimic as you posted above the benefit of the significant doubt.
I love how the weak minded talk of rights when those rights are perceived as to their benefit. Men are supposed to continue allowing their children and themselves to be one-sidedly degraded because it's your RIGHT to be amused. Typical feminist nonsense... rights without the intelligence to understand the ramifications.
Here's a lesson... you don't have the right to do anything you want simply because it amuses you. There are social standard that say:
It's wrong to put down Women
It's wrong to put down Blacks
It's wrong to put down Jews
It's wrong to put down Muslims
It's wrong to put down anyone that fits into your near vacant liberal mind... but it's just A-OK to put down my boys because they happen to not fit into your little "victimhood minority clique"
The men and women on this board don't live in your "rest of the world". We live in Western countries where to have a pussy makes you a "goddess" and having a cock makes you a criminal.
People like you are the sheep that keep this country stupid and maleable, the perfect liberal. Move on with your D&G grazing.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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where the hell's Gonzo?
Ooops! He beat me to it.
Right here, right here. These things take time, Brother.
:-D
I still haven't figured out if that's Todd Goldman, or Lorianne in Drag.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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have you seen the picture of this guy on the D&G website!!!
has anyone considered that lorianne might be todd in drag!?
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I still haven't figured out if that's Todd Goldman, or Lorianne in Drag.
You know, it seriously wouldn't surprise me if it was Todd Goldman. I mean, we just took away a big chunk of his business.
Methinks he fears that his "multi-million dollar company" might not be multi-million much longer.....
We really need some animated smileys on this site. A good hearty "LOL" smiley sure would be appropriate right now.
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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"...Foucault, post-modern deconstruction, and apodictic truths."
Hey! I got two out of three. I had to look up 'apodictic.' Am I right in guessing it's a pomo swear word? As in: "You're attempting the reification of apodictic truth, you miserable oppressor!"
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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Ooops! I didn't mean to... erm.. well... You know. :-)
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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Well, turn over a rock and guess what crawls out from under it. This rambling is almost reminiscient of the horrid little troll that runs D&G. Let's deconstruct.
I stumbled across this article while actually searching for some of the David and Goliath products,
Nice try and nice lie, dickweed. I *JUST* googled this using the exact terms, and didn't hit squat from this site. Things to make ya go "Hmmmm."
and I honestly cannot believe this little campaign of Glenn Sacks has gone this far.
Grab yer BVDs. Ya ain't seen nuthin' yet.
The slogans used in the David and Goliath line are jokes. The creators are not actually suggesting that people literally throw rocks at anyone.
Almost word for word something I recieved from Todd Goldman. Zen, crank up the Twilight Zone Music, eh wot?
I am a firm believer in equal rights and am strongly against perpetuating stereotypes, but I also believe strongly in the First Amendment.
As do I. And since Da Gubbmint isn't silencing anything, we have no violations of the 1st amendment, do we?
Or did ya skip civics class to go smoke dope that day?
If you do not find the slogans amusing, don't buy the product. There have been MILLIONS upon millions of t-shirts and other merchandise depicting derogatory images and slogans against and/or degrading women, and there will continue to be probably until the end of time. There are several websites and shops across the country like that of T-Shirt Hell that contain t-shirts and bumper stickers with similar slogans against women, such as "YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS IS MY LITTLE WH**E!" and "VAGINAS ARE WEIRD!"
And millions upon millions of them banned from schools, picketed, campaigned against, boycotted, et. al. Also millions of murders, millions of instyances of tortue - they allright too?
Your argument is a classic case of the fallacy of numbers. F. Thanks for playing.
I do not agree with these products and I find almost every one of them offensive, but I would never boycott, obsess, or demand them to be obliterated from the planet just because I do not like them.
Good for you. Your point is?
The day we allow others to decide what we can or cannot buy is the day we lose the very freedom on which this country was founded.
And by gum, the day the government does this, you will be absolutely right. And so long as it is private citizens which are pushing this, it's just a case of the free market at work.
Um ... You do believe in the free market, don't you?
I will continue to buy David and Goliath products (most of which say nothing about boys at all) because I find them amusing, and because that is my right as an American citizen.
Buy away. If we're lucky, they'll be collecter's items some day, just like Little Black Sambo dolls and such.
As for this website overall, I think it is an abomination and an affront to all women and men alike.
Here is your complaint form. --> [ ] Please print legibly.
The ridiculous accusations and the subjects you discuss amazes me. Women have been fighting for equality for centuries and are still seen by most of the world as second class citizens. It is beyond me how you can believe otherwise. I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy world you all live in where women, or anything but old upper class white men, are controlling this country. Your constant comments about how women are consumers and therefore rule the world
Oh really. How droll.
Let's see. Which group is it that enjoys the largest amount of life choices, social deferences, highest level of education, most disposable time, most disposable income, and have protections for their status enacted into law in the form of exemptions to laws, affirmnative action (When they are a MAJORITY!), and special crimes that can only be committed against them? Plus will never have to serve in combat to defend these protections?
That would be - Steven, the envelope - drum roll please....
...And the winner is ....WOMEN!
How you can believe otherise in face of the facts is staggering, exceeded only by your parroting and lapping up feminist propaganda and other such nonsense.
Play again?
is almost as ludicrous as your beliefs that these t-shirts are going to somehow scar some little boy for life who, believe me, is far more interested in playing Playstation or soccer than he is to pay any attention to some girl's clothing line.
Spoken like someone who has no sons - or at least doesn't love them.
You all go on talking about men's rights & justice, yet you continue to degrade and belittle women. I ran across several posts last night in which many of you were swapping jokes and laughing it up about as many demeaning and stereotypical comments toward women as you could come up with for your own hypothetical t-shirt slogans. I honestly do not see how that is any better than what you're supposedly fighting against. In fact, the comments and jokes I read were far worse than the slogans printed on the David and Goliath shirts.
Funny you should mention... (Oh, me bucko, you have come to the wrong place to try to puke your screed)
I wrote an article a few weeks back for this on Men's News Daily which proposed creating similar shirts, using cheaply available T's, and iron on technology available for printing. I even posted a graphic of my own.
Now I had a few people even DID it, especially at schools which pooh-poohed the whole D&G thing, and the reactions they recieved were of shock and horror; and then belated shock and horror when the School administrators realized it was no different than when the whoe was on the other foot, and they had been defending it.
It's called making a point by illustration, or loosely in Latin "Reductio ad Absurdium;" reducing it to the absurd. And know what? It works. When people look on something in horror, and realize it was funny when it wasn't their ox being gored, a person of conscience and character thinks twice.
Speaks more sadly about you, me bucko.
As far as the most recent comments are concerned, I find it absolutely appalling that you would compare the horrific actions of the Nazi party to a retail corporation selling sarcastically humorous merchandise.
I mean, sheesh, can't you darkies take a joke?
Tell it to Doug Tracht.
Why don't you try using all this negative energy on something more productive and worth fighting against. There are worse things in the world than sick humor. Go outside and live life instead of sitting at your computers stewing and obsessing over trivial matters.
Well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. For such a trivial matter it motivated you to create an identity, log in, and post.
HMMMMMMMMMMM.
Sure has a lot of power over you, for such a small thing.
Like I said. Thanks for playing. Warble, Tell 'em what ... it's ... won!
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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Well, turn over a rock and guess what crawls out from under it. This rambling is almost reminiscent of the horrid little troll that runs D&G. Let's deconstruct.
Wow, you guys sure like that troll reference. How charming.
>>I stumbled across this article while actually searching for some of the David and Goliath products,>>
Nice try and nice lie, dickweed.
You know for upstanding males of the community and such good role models for your boys you all use way too much school yard name calling to be considered professional. I don't believe I made any personal attacks or used any profanity in my post, but that isn't the only way in which we differ here.
I *JUST* googled this using the exact terms, and didn't hit squat from this site. Things to make ya go "Hmmmm."
Odd that you would question that I found this site by accident, as if I go looking for misogynistic sites to read and post comments on. Oh wait, that's you.
In all actuality, I WAS searching, not on Google, but on Yahoo, for David and Goliath products. A friend of mine saw some pajamas that are part of the non-rock throwing at boys side of the line that she had wanted but only found at one store in her area, so I was doing a search to look for a store carrying them for a cheaper price when I came across a headline saying someone was trying to ban the products, which led me to this hateful site.
>>The slogans used in the David and Goliath line are jokes. The creators are not actually suggesting that people literally throw rocks at anyone.>>
Almost word for word something I recieved from Todd Goldman. Zen, crank up the Twilight Zone Music, eh wot?
Ahh yes, well great minds think alike.
>>I am a firm believer in equal rights and am strongly against perpetuating stereotypes, but I also believe strongly in the First Amendment.>>
>
And by gum, the day the government does this, you will be absolutely right. And so long as it is private citizens which are pushing this, it's just a case of the free market at work.
Um ... You do believe in the free market, don't you?
I don't understand your logic here...How can it be a free market if you have all the products pulled from the shelves just because YOU do not agree with them? That's like saying, well I don't like peanut butter, therefore ALL peanut butter should be removed from every store so that NO ONE else can have a chance to buy any because by God, I don't like it. How is that free market??
...Which group is it that enjoys the largest amount of life choices, social deferences, highest level of education, most disposable time, most disposable income, and have protections for their status enacted into law in the form of exemptions to laws, affirmnative action (When they are a MAJORITY!), and special crimes that can only be committed against them? Plus will never have to serve in combat to defend these protections?
That would be - Steven, the envelope - drum roll please....
...And the winner is ....WOMEN!
Ok dude, you are in some SERIOUS denial if you think any of this is true. It seems to me you are pigeon holing a specific type of woman and generalizing to make your point more valid. There are some women who may have married a man that makes enough money to support both of them and any children they may have, such that it would allow her to do all of these things of which you are claiming...Or maybe if she was born into a wealthy family and has a rich daddy that would pay for her to have whatever "life choices" and level of education, blah blah blah that she would like...But these women are few and far between, and by no means a majority enough for you to be making such a generalization. All of the women I know have worked as equally hard as men, some of them even harder as single mothers with 2 or more jobs. I do not know any women who were handed anything in life without working twice as hard as a man to get it, and for less pay then their male counterpart at that.
Men have the same opportunities and the same law exemption & affirmative action rights as any woman does. But it is pointless to argue further on any of these subjects because neither of us will see it any other way and it is completely off topic, so I will leave it at that.
As for the "never having to serve in combat" comment...There ARE women who chose to serve in combat. There ARE women who are out there fighting for our country at this very moment. There are women who have died fighting for our country. Do not belittle them with this comment. Women in the military chose to be there just as the men serving do. It is not the women who chose to not serve in combat, it is old, white, conservative men that have made the law deciding that women shall not be drafted and shall not be forced to serve in combat. Do not put that fault on women.
In fact, more women would be in the military if it were not for the barbarian men many of them encounter in boot camp who do not believe that women belong in the military. But that is another subject for another day in which I will not be posting on this site. Do your own research on that one.
How you can believe otherise in face of the facts is staggering, exceeded only by your parroting and lapping up feminist propaganda and other such nonsense.
blah blah blah blah blah.....
Well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. For such a trivial matter it motivated you to create an identity, log in, and post.
HMMMMMMMMMMM.
Sure has a lot of power over you, for such a small thing.
Like I said. Thanks for playing. Warble, Tell 'em what ... it's ... won!
Actually I did post my comment anonymously first, but it was not seen, so I did log in, yes. This website did motivate me enough to post my opinion because it infuriated me the way you all speak of equality, yet sit here and bash women incessantly. I agree that men have rights, but does that not mean that women have rights also?
I just do not understand the anger on this site...what is there to be so angry about?? You're all so hostile toward me, why? Because I do not believe in boycotts?
Overall, no, I would not agree with allowing any child to wear a t-shirt to school that made it look like it was ok to throw rocks at anyone. I would not let my children wear a shirt like that period. But I don't think these shirts are intended for children. Most of the shirts in the David & Goliath line are very adult-oriented, so no, I would not condone my children wearing any of them. As an adult I find some of them amusing, even those not flattering to women (examples to follow), but I am an adult, not an impressionable child. Many of the T-shirts in the D&G line I think would in fact hurt a young girl's body image as much as, if not more than, the rocks shirt's would to a young boy.
None of the following t-shirts, also found on the D&G line, promote a very flattering image of women either:
-There is a shirt of a very grossly obese woman eating with the slogan
'I Beat Anorexia.'
This is offensive not only to women with body image issues and eating disorders, but also an insult to overweight people. Yet, it has not been banned.
There is a shirt with a picture of a little girl with a bag over her head with the slogan
"Looks Aren't Everything."
Again, this perpetuates the problem of body image which many young girls struggle with and kill themselves over.
Same goes for
"Todd Likes Skinny Girls, but He'd Never Turn Down a Fattie!"
And of course then there are the usual:
"I'm Naturally Blonde, Please Speak Slowly"
"Gold Digger...Like a Hooker just Smarter"
There is also a section of shirts specifically for men with pictorials on "How to Dump Your Girlfriend" and the like.
Oh there's also an entire line called "Goodbye Kitty" with different pictures on how to kill a cat. Better not tell the animal rights activists about that one, they may want to pull all of those from the shelves too.
None of these are flattering to women & I would definitely not allow children to see, or wear, any of them. But they are not made for children, like Southpark is not made for children. If you don't like Southpark, turn it off. If you don't like the t-shirt, don't buy it. If a kid at your school is wearing it, complain to your school board and talk to your child about it. However it is not up to you to decide what other people may or may not purchase. If another child is wearing this shirt it is the fault of the parents of the child wearing it, not the creator or the store carrying it.
For me this is not a sex issue, it is a censorship issue. It is the attitudes of misogyny on this site that I had a problem with enough to post a comment. And you only proved yourselves on that full force with your hateful responses.
I certainly hope you do not treat your mothers/sisters/wives, and certainly not your daughters this way. God help your daughters if you refer to them as a "Sow" or a "Feminazi" should they grow up to be independent, strong-willed women with their own opinions one day.
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Wow, you guys sure like that troll reference. How charming.
Glad to oblige. If the shoe fits....
You know for upstanding males of the community and such good role models for your boys you all use way too much school yard name calling to be considered professional.
Yeah, we used to do that and had feminazis shout us off of stage, and threaten our lives. So now we just get back in their face.
We're here; Loud, proud, and unbowed. Get used to it.
I don't believe I made any personal attacks or used any profanity in my post, but that isn't the only way in which we differ here.
Well, it isn't male style to hide disingenuousness beneath a veneer of politeness. While that's probably what you're used to, we gotta be us.
Odd that you would question that I found this site by accident, as if I go looking for misogynistic sites to read and post comments on. Oh wait, that's you.
What's the quote? "Misogynist: Someone who questions feminist lies."
And mysoginist too. Nope. No name calling here.
In all actuality, I WAS searching, not on Google, but on Yahoo, for David and Goliath products. A friend of mine saw some pajamas that are part of the non-rock throwing at boys side of the line that she had wanted but only found at one store in her area, so I was doing a search to look for a store carrying them for a cheaper price when I came across a headline saying someone was trying to ban the products, which led me to this hateful site.
Ban? Hmmm. That would imply trying to enact a law. Clever attempt to slide that in, though.
And hateful too. Nope. No name calling here.
Ahh yes, well great minds think alike.
Right up there with Goebbels and David Duke. You and Todd are in exalted company
I don't understand your logic here...How can it be a free market if you have all the products pulled from the shelves just because YOU do not agree with them? That's like saying, well I don't like peanut butter, therefore ALL peanut butter should be removed from every store so that NO ONE else can have a chance to buy any because by God, I don't like it. How is that free market??
Let me break out the crayolas for ya, babycakes. Since I am the consumer, and the consumer is driving the market, the market is free. Consumer doesn't like a product - product fails - company folds - see how that works?
Now, obliging consumers to buy products - that's fascist.
Ok dude, you are in some SERIOUS denial if you think any of this is true.
No ma'am - you're in denial if you don't.
It seems to me you are pigeon holing a specific type of woman and generalizing to make your point more valid.
See, by definition, when I speak of women in a colective tense, I generalize. Because a woman here and there doesn't fall under this rubric all or part of the way doesn't make it any more or less valid, because whenever you speak of case instances as opposed to statistical averages, you compare apples and oranges. I could cite many women who do fall under such things to the T, and it doesn't apply to a statistical generalization.
Ooops - thought you were dealing with a rube here, eh? Your mistake.
There are some women who may have married a man that makes enough money to support both of them and any children they may have, such that it would allow her to do all of these things of which you are claiming
Oh what utter crap. There's a lot of financially successful women running around who have no man at all to owe or blame for any part of their life.
Or maybe if she was born into a wealthy family and has a rich daddy that would pay for her to have whatever "life choices" and level of education, blah blah blah that she would like
Damn, and here I got mine the hard way; by studying, sacrificing, and working two minimum wage jobs at times while I was in college.
But these women are few and far between, and by no means a majority enough for you to be making such a generalization.
I can go to any middle class strip mall any day of the week during business hours and watch the parade of women in SUVs go to salons, and shopping, and all other kinds of things. Damn few mine.
Oh, that's right. They'd be at work.
All of the women I know have worked as equally hard as men, some of them even harder as single mothers with 2 or more jobs.
And did they get to be single mothers by chossing to mate with losers? Divorce them? How?
I do not know any women who were handed anything in life without working twice as hard as a man to get it, and for less pay then their male counterpart at that.
I don't know of more than a couple handfuls of woman running around that I couldn't legitimately ask if they earned their promotion, or were handed it in the last diversity drive. And just for grins, I pulled out a phone book here and randomly counted a few dozen business that advertised themselves as "Women's" something or other. "Men's _______" Three.
Not to mention the women's section in the paper which is chock full of "Woman owned and Operated" businesses advertising. A handless man could count the amount of businesses like that for men.
Thanks for playing, but we already disproved that myth a few years ago.
Men have the same opportunities and the same law exemption & affirmative action rights as any woman does.
Smae ones that a woman does? Okay, let's line up a white woman and a white man - who gets affirmative action?
Better yet, let's pull out my old "diversity handbook" from personnel on my last job - Huh. Whattaya know? A white woman counts more under federal guidelines than a black man.
Go figure.
But it is pointless to argue further on any of these subjects because neither of us will see it any other way and it is completely off topic, so I will leave it at that.
Let's call it what it is. It's pointless because you will lose, as you are already in over your head.
As for the "never having to serve in combat" comment...There ARE women who chose to serve in combat.
Choose is the operative word. You need to meet Phil sometime, a silver star winner in vietnam who never had a choice, and now works as a greeter for Walmart - You might probably call him a loser, but a grenade did awful things to him, and he's now in a wheelchair, slurring his words, with his memory function damaged.
There ARE women who are out there fighting for our country at this very moment.
Like the mythical Jessica Lynch - who it turns out wasn't so brave after all?
There are women who have died fighting for our country. Do not belittle them with this comment. Women in the military chose to be there just as the men serving do. It is not the women who chose to not serve in combat, it is old, white, conservative men that have made the law deciding that women shall not be drafted and shall not be forced to serve in combat. Do not put that fault on women.
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah... Oh, sorry - did the music stop?
I have my draft registration and my son's - filled out under penalty of law - not two feet away from me. Where is yours, Madam? And your letter and lawsuit insisting on paying the same price as men for your freedom?
Didn't think so.
In fact, more women would be in the military if it were not for the barbarian men many of them encounter in boot camp who do not believe that women belong in the military.
Well, in fact, as a decorated combat veteran I can count on the fingers of one hand and still hold my coffee the amount of women in the military who could keep up with men in PT. But that's another debate. Maybe if ya'll didn't insist on being coddleed and on doing girl pushups, you might change that image.
But that is another subject for another day in which I will not be posting on this site. Do your own research on that one.
Wise move. You'd lose that argument too.
Actually I did post my comment anonymously first, but it was not seen, so I did log in, yes. This website did motivate me enough to post my opinion because it infuriated me the way you all speak of equality, yet sit here and bash women incessantly. I agree that men have rights, but does that not mean that women have rights also?
We're all well aware of the rights women have, and a good chunk of them at the expense of men. I'm all for women's rights. Just against special ones for them by virtue of their plumbing.
I just do not understand the anger on this site...what is there to be so angry about?? You're all so hostile toward me, why? Because I do not believe in boycotts?
Wah wah wah. Instead of playing the poor woman card, maybe it's because you're a damned feminist.
I'll deal with the rest of your crap later. I have a job to go to.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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Damn, and here I got mine the hard way; by studying, sacrificing, and working two minimum wage jobs at times while I was in college.
As did I. I have been studying, scarificing, and I also worked two minimum wage jobs all through college, so wah, your pity party isn't going to work on me. Poor you that has to work for a living like everyone else.
I can go to any middle class strip mall any day of the week during business hours and watch the parade of women in SUVs go to salons, and shopping, and all other kinds of things. Damn few mine.
Oh, that's right. They'd be at work.
I don't know of more than a couple handfuls of woman running around that I couldn't legitimately ask if they earned their promotion, or were handed it in the last diversity drive.
I have been working at the same company for the last three years, working 60+ hours a week, barely able to pay my bills. A man I work with started shortly after I did, also in an entry-level position. Now take a wild guess who out of the two has been promoted in the last three years, and who is working at the same entry-level position. And why is that? Because the conservative white males running the company would rather see a man doing the job. So I don't want to hear your generalization of women who spend all day in the mall, because that is so far from my reality that it's not even funny. I have worked twice as hard to prove myself as many of the men in my company, working nights and weekends, and I will have to continue to do so to ever advance in my male-dominated field.
>>All of the women I know have worked as equally hard as men, some of them even harder as single mothers with 2 or more jobs.
And did they get to be single mothers by chossing to mate with losers? Divorce them? How?
You're contradicting yourself. I mean by you're oh-so radical way of thinking there can be no male losers, so how is it possible anyone I know could choose to mate with one of them? It is amazing to me how ridiculous your line of thinking is. How it is automatically the woman's fault if a man leaves her and their children, and how she could be to blame for him being a "loser" for doing so. You're unbelievable.
But whatever. You sir, have some very serious issues. I don't know what your mother did to you as a child to make you such an angry, jaded, prejudiced person, but I hope you get some psychological help.
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"I have been working at the same company for the last three years, working 60+ hours a week, barely able to pay my bills. A man I work with started shortly after I did, also in an entry-level position. Now take a wild guess who out of the two has been promoted in the last three years, and who is working at the same entry-level position. And why is that?",
Because your burger flipping skills aren't really as impressive as you think that they are?
"Because the conservative white males running the company would rather see a man doing the job."
They told you that, huh?
"So I don't want to hear your generalization of women"
No, you've got your own generalizations to make about "conservative white males".
"who spend all day in the mall, because that is so far from my reality that it's not even funny."
Matches my experiences of reality. Why don't you take a day off and go to the mall sometime during the week, see who's there.
"I have worked twice as hard to prove myself as many of the men in my company, working nights and weekends, and I will have to continue to do so to ever advance in my male-dominated field."
Not necessarily. Maybe they're just not promoting you because you're a bitch.
"You're contradicting yourself. I mean by you're oh-so radical way of thinking there can be no male losers"
Nonsense. I've heard Gonzo call many men losers.
"so how is it possible anyone I know could choose to mate with one of them? It is amazing to me how ridiculous your line of thinking is."
I don't see how that's possible since you are the author of his supposed line of thinking after all.
"How it is automatically the woman's fault if a man leaves her and their children, and how she could be to blame for him being a "loser" for doing so."
90% of the time, it's the woman who files for divorce. The only reason it's the man who "leaves" is because he's being kicked out of the house he payed for.
"But whatever. You sir, have some very serious issues. I don't know what your mother did to you as a child to make you such an angry, jaded, prejudiced person, but I hope you get some psychological help."
I'll take that as a concession that at least on a subconscious level you realize you've been trying to defend a less informed point of view against a better reasoner than yourself.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @01:43PM EST (#65)
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Damn, and here I got mine the hard way; by studying, sacrificing, and working two minimum wage jobs at times while I was in college.
As did I. I have been studying, scarificing, and I also worked two minimum wage jobs all through college, so wah, your pity party isn't going to work on me. Poor you that has to work for a living like everyone else.
Meanwhile, the priviledged feminists that collect welfare and paternity fraud based child support get a free ride through the system because of their vagina. By contrast, a male is unable to collect welfare or child support and get a free ride.
What, Ya forget to commit that paternity fraud? Don't know how to apply for welfare? Haven't gotten a kid yet so you can get in shool free?
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @02:28PM EST (#72)
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I have been working at the same company for the last three years, working 60+ hours a week, barely able to pay my bills. A man I work with started shortly after I did, also in an entry-level position.
Funny how these fem-bots hate to loose in a competition. If the female gets promoted she must have worked twice as hard. If a females gets passed over then the men are all bastards.
I suggest going into a death occupation of you are having such a hard time making ends meet. You obviously cannot get ahead where you are at.
What is a death occupation you ask? Farming, coal mining, tree trimming, firewoman, iron worker, construction, and more.... you know all those evil male jobs where men die at radically higher rates than women and women refuse to take the job because "it's too hard (whine)."
Oh. But then you would have to be a Rosie Riveter...and that might mean you would get muscles....
Warble
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As did I. I have been studying, scarificing, and I also worked two minimum wage jobs all through college, so wah, your pity party isn't going to work on me. Poor you that has to work for a living like everyone else.
Heehee - hey, honey, I wasn't the one on here whining about how hard "women" worrked - you wuz - shall I quote ya, sweet-cheeks? Oh never mind - you proceed to do it some more!
I have been working at the same company for the last three years, working 60+ hours a week, barely able to pay my bills. A man I work with started shortly after I did, also in an entry-level position. Now take a wild guess who out of the two has been promoted in the last three years, and who is working at the same entry-level position. And why is that? Because the conservative white males running the company would rather see a man doing the job.
Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear someone blaming "the man" for their personal shortcomings.
Of course, the possibility that the best man for this job was a man never even entered into your mind, eh?
So I don't want to hear your generalization of women who spend all day in the mall, because that is so far from my reality that it's not even funny. I have worked twice as hard to prove myself as many of the men in my company, working nights and weekends, and I will have to continue to do so to ever advance in my male-dominated field.
Worked twice as hard? By whose standards? How about productivity? Sorry toots, but if you put in 60 hours a week selling widgets, and Joe puts in 30 selling them,but he has twice the sales volume of you, bottom line, guess who is the more valuable employee?
What you need to do is unlearn all your feminist studies crap about oppressive patriarchal models and take an assessment - if the patriarchal model has withstood the test of time, it might just be because it works better.
It is amazing to me how ridiculous your line of thinking is. How it is automatically the woman's fault if a man leaves her and their children, and how she could be to blame for him being a "loser" for doing so. You're unbelievable.
Like it or not, toots, there's been a lot of yipping since about 1973 about choices for women. Downside of that is that you become responsible for those choices, even if you aren't "pro-choice." Breed with a loser, guess who's fault it is?
Maybe women should try breeding with these nice guys they expect to step up and be daddy and sugar daddy later in life, rather than blaming them for not wanting to have anything to do with a used up woman. Might be less exciting, but then again, the ancient chinese used to curse people with wishes that they would lead an exciting life.
;-)
But whatever. You sir, have some very serious issues. I don't know what your mother did to you as a child to make you such an angry, jaded, prejudiced person, but I hope you get some psychological help.
Ho-hum. Blame and shame. How weary that tired old game is.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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I just do not understand the anger on this site...what is there to be so angry about?? You're all so hostile toward me, why? Because I do not believe in boycotts?
Let me get this straight. She's shopping online for sweatpants or something and comes across a group congratulating themselves for achieving a commonly held goal. She decides, as a total stranger, to tell this group that not only does she oppose their goal, but she opposes the methods they used to achieve it. Within this little lecture, she includes:
As for this website overall, I think it is an abomination...
I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy world you all live in...
...as ludicrous as your beliefs...
Go outside and live life instead of sitting at your computers stewing and obsessing over trivial matters.
And she doesn't understand why she is met with hostility?????
A man I work with started shortly after I did, also in an entry-level position. Now take a wild guess who out of the two has been promoted in the last three years, and who is working at the same entry-level position. And why is that?
I would hazard the guess that an almost complete lack of social skills and self-awareness has something to do with it.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 01, @10:56PM EST (#128)
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2b.
You keep telling Gonzo and others that we "Keep generalizing women".
Well, look at your previous posts.
You seem to have a problem with men who are "old" or "white".
I saw several of THOSE generalizations.
I am American indian. So, believe me I know what being generalized and stereotyped is all about.
You keep sounding like, that because women were oppressed, that men should just shut up and take it when their rights are violated. My peoples (Indians) rights have been and still are violated six ways to sunday, and have been for the past 500 years. But not for ONE INSTANT do I beleive the rights of ANY white man or woman should be violated because of what my people have and are going through.
Also what about the "Buffalo soldiers"? (the African American members of the U.S calvary.) they killed thousands of indians along with the white soldiers. so should ALL blacks now have to pay for what was done THEN?
I don't think so.
But then, I,m funny that way. I believe in America. I believe in what it stands for. even when it doesn't work the way it should. I don't believe in sitting back and watching with self righteous glee when the rights of ANY Americans are violated because of what SOME members of that "group" did to mine.
The way to stop all bigotry is to..., well..., stop ALL bigotry. Not wait untill ones particular "group" gets enough political and social power simply to use it to violate the right of the "other group" that offended us.
It is the proverbial 'vicious circle. WHERE does it end?!?
Also.
If you look around you will not see many posts from any one, including Me, that that expresses a desire to oppress women, take away their constitutional and civil rights, or harm them in any way. the few posts i have seen that DO say such things have been met by us with disdain and even anger. But look on the feminist websites. just about all they ever do is generalize and say how much they hate men. they talk about the rights they want to take from them (particularly reproductive rights) and More than once i have seen them make refrence to male genital mutilation as sport.
No one that I know of here has ever stated any thing similar towards women.
No, we do not advocate takeing away women's rights.
We're just trying to hang on to our OWN. and as long as this is America that is what we are going to do.
P.S. If you want to see true gender hatred and want to scold someone for generalizing look up "SCUM MANIFESTO".
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Hmm, I don't think I was talking to you, "Hombre", but thank you so much for your insight.
There is no concession to a better reasoner, I just refuse to spend any more time or energy giving you lunatics fuel. I mean you plead such a good case with your biased logic of she's a woman therefore she's an idiot who has no idea what she's talking about, so it must be true.
I especially like the part though where you all leave out where I agreed with you just to attack me some more to make you look like the big man martyr. Kudos on that, boys!
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I just refuse to spend any more time or energy...
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!
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Let me try and find all your straying points. You are not just facing the 'boys'here, and I will keep it simple since I know most 'girls' have a hard time with logical thought.
1~”Your boycott is overreacting”
You originally came here because you did not agree with our boycott of David & Goliath merchandise. Now, did you personally write to the Christian Coalition for boycotting Disney? Did you write to NOW for boycotting Mattel (Barbie)? Have you written to PETA for boycotting veal? The fact is people boycott products every day. If you did not write to them as well, why not? Boycotting is the tool for those who live in a capitalist society to enact social change. What did you think we were going to say when you came here complaining of our using legal means of protest?
2~"Old white men rule the country".
Now women make up 51% of the voting pool. That is a majority. We live in a democracy, which is government by the people. This means women have a majority rule. Women are electing those old white men into office, more than men (at least 1% more.) Also, there are women's voters leagues, but no men's, and I am sure if you like, my husband Dave can find the stat which shows women vote at a higher percentage than men. The politicians represent those who elect them. The most active social group in this country are women. The group which has enacted the most amount of social change in the last 50 years are feminists. The group with the most amount of free time are women.
3~ “Women work as much if not more than men”
You are funny. I saw a study recently which stated that although more women graduate from Harvard than men, only 24% of those women work full time 2 years after graduating. There was a study from England recently where (Aprx) 50% of women in England did not work at all, 32% work part time, and 18% work full time. The average woman works 10 hours a week less than the average man, out of full time employees. This is a verifiable statistic.
4~”All the woman I know”
This is not a strong place to start a debate. All the people you know are not a statistically random pool of the population, and has no provable source. This means your friends are not diverse enough to represent everyone, and you could be lying. Anything you said after “I know” means nothing. The man in your company, IF you are telling the truth, could have been promoted for many reasons. It could be he came in with more knowledge, he could be a better worker, or maybe he is actually working instead of spending hours on-line debating about a boycott which has nothing to do with his job. You have no proof why he was promoted above you, so it is irrelevant.
5~ “There are several websites and shops across the country like that of T-Shirt Hell that contain t-shirts and bumper stickers with similar slogans against women, such as "YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS IS MY LITTLE WH**E!" and "VAGINAS ARE WEIRD!"” Here is the low down.
A~ Anywhere those products are sold, there are an equal amount of derogatory products about men. The sites are not one sided.
B~ None of these sites pander to children. D&G admits that they are “one of the hottest junior lines”
C~ NONE of those slogans you mentioned would be allowed into schools, unlike D&G products.
6~ “You all go on talking about men's rights & justice, yet you continue to degrade and belittle women”
Any line of reasoning in this direction is irrelevant. We are talking about D&G boycott, what we say on other subjects neither helps nor hinders our position on this subject.
I have no idea why you are here. D&G makes clothing which are sexist, promote violence, and are marketed towards children. We have a problem with this so are using legal, non-violent action to enact social change, which is pretty much a right for everyone in the United States. Your opinion really is just that. Your opinion You can sit and argue, badly at that, and insult us, again badly, yet all you do is polarize us and charge us for more action. Thank you.
The Biscuit Queen
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I would hazard the guess that an almost complete lack of social skills and self-awareness has something to do with it.
This is something I have seen over and over again. A woman comes in, behaves like a caricature of the most boorish man alive, and when she alienates everyone - particularly her bosses - blames her lack of advancement on her lack of a penis. A perfect excuse for her to never have to take a long hard look in the mirror.
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Hi,
did I get someones's attention? I am a mind controling computer screen. You will send all your money to ...
sorry weird mood.
Jen, great analysis. I love the way Gonzo writes, I mean, ya gotta admit, its like watching razor blades on human skin. But I really liked how you broke it down for her.
Good job Muffin ... err TBQ
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Wow! jenk/BisquitQueen, that is an excellent, well-put and worded reply. Thank you.
R
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @01:17PM EST (#62)
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I just do not understand the anger on this site...what is there to be so angry about?? You're all so hostile toward me, why? Because I do not believe in boycotts?
Excellent. So, when Ray and I start distributing the "Girls are Stupid; Throw Rocks at Them" at the local California High Schools then you will publically come forward to oppose the feminist that will want to sue us. You will have no problem with us stating that it is "just a joke."
LIAR!
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @01:19PM EST (#63)
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This is offensive not only to women with body image issues and eating disorders, but also an insult to overweight people. Yet, it has not been banned.
Another LIE. The tees you describe are banned in all California public schools and most other schools throughout the Nation. If a male were to wear one of the shirt you describe they'd be sued for millions for the creation of a hostile environment. Get a clue and stop the denial.
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @11:59AM EST (#54)
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Gonzo,
Thanks for the insight. The entire male staff at work is rolling on the floor laughing. You are the best.
Warble
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Now this will be typical evening:
Me: bwuahahahahaah *subsides into giggling*
boyfriend: *peers over from other computer* what?
me: *giggle* Gonzo's post! *read aloud* *more giggling*
boyfriend: *gives very peculier look* *shakes head, looks at computer screen again*
I keep feeling I'm the only one who appreciates the humor. :P
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Nope it's not just you. It IS some funny shit he does.
You guys have His and Hers computers ... Man ...
I am just gonna leave that alone. It's way to easy. So many paths for abuse there. Nah, I like you and don't want you to hate me for life.
Nope, I totally agree. Gonzo is a fucking RIOT. I have saved some of his stuff onto word documents because it was THAT funny.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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I may not agree with him all the time, but he is one talented writer. I even started reading his posts on this thread to my feminist friend (who, BTW is slowely starting to see the light and has completely taken up the sword on this issue). She was rolling!
Things that make you go HMMM.
He kills me!
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 31, @03:43PM EST (#109)
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We should just start calling him; "The great Gonzo".
(Wasn't one of the MUPPETS called that, though??)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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I keep feeling I'm the only one who appreciates the humor. :P
Maybe the only one between your boyfriend and you, but a lot of us fall out of our chairs laughing at the mean spin he can put on words.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @12:04PM EST (#55)
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I wrote an article a few weeks back for this on Men's News Daily which proposed creating similar shirts, using cheaply available T's, and iron on technology available for printing. I even posted a graphic of my own.
Now I had a few people even DID it, especially at schools which pooh-poohed the whole D&G thing, and the reactions they recieved were of shock and horror; and then belated shock and horror when the School administrators realized it was no different than when the whoe was on the other foot, and they had been defending it.
It's called making a point by illustration, or loosely in Latin "Reductio ad Absurdium;" reducing it to the absurd. And know what? It works. When people look on something in horror, and realize it was funny when it wasn't their ox being gored, a person of conscience and character thinks twice.
Hey Ray! Let's do this! I would luv to hit the malls with a tee saying "Girls are stupid; throw rocks at them" and use similar graphics (but different) to D&G's products as a basis.
I'll bet we could get the fem-bots in the malls to shit bricks! I cannot think of a better way to incite these male-haters to attack me!
This would be even better than the "California is a Hostile Sexist Environment Towards Men" tee effect.
Warble
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I'm gonna back up now so I don't get run over by the 324 posts that are about to hit...
bg
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"There are several websites and shops across the country like that of T-Shirt Hell that contain t-shirts and bumper stickers with similar slogans against women, such as "YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS IS MY LITTLE WH**E!" and "VAGINAS ARE WEIRD!""
An invalid analogy. The above mentioned website is located in the sleazy backwaters of the internet, while the offensive "Boys are stupid" shirts were being sold stores in an upscale mall (at least the ones I came across).
"Why don't you try using all this negative energy on something more productive and worth fighting against. There are worse things in the world than sick humor. Go outside and live life instead of sitting at your computers stewing and obsessing over trivial matters."
Oh come on. Feminists have had a fit for years over innocent Barbie dolls, which are much more bening than T-shirts that say "Boys are stupid - throw rocks at them."
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thank you also for the "sow" comment...let's add that to the list of unnecessary name calling, shall we?
Firstly, yes T-Shirt Hell is a sleazy website, but it is also mainstream. I know many people who check out the website regularly, even if they do not buy the merchandise. The two examples I used are merely the worst female-insulting slogans on the site at this time, but I have seen worse. At one time the site had a line of sleeveless white undershirts, or "wife-beaters" as they are more commonly called, which had slogans of just that. All of the shirts at that time all spoke of "bitch slapping the little woman and sending her back to the kitchen where she belongs when you need another beer."
Although I did not see this particular shirt in any upscale malls (I do not frequent the mall contrary to your website's common belief of American women), I have seen many other derogatory slogans on bumper stickers and buttons, etc. in stores in the mall such as Spencer's Gifts and Hot Topic. My point in these examples was simply that it is not only male-bashing specific products out there. It's sick humor, and it's very "in" today.
Also unlike the femminists you speak of, I have never had a fit over any dolls or t-shirts, nor demanded they be removed from a store because I didn't agree with them. I just keep walking and do not buy it. My only problem with your boycott is that by demanding products be removed from stores you are restricting others's right to purchase the product should they want to.
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As for "old upper class white men", the question must be asked "In whose interests are their actions?". Many of us in this forum believe that the upper class white credo "women and children first" is the answer to that question. Whatever twisted fantasy world that we might be living in, I fail to understand how you could fail to observe the abundantly obvious fact that lower class males of _any_ color are being ill served by those currently holding power.
I do not fail to see that the lower class is being ill served by those currently holding power. But I also do not fail to see that it is not only lower class males that are not being served. You will never have ANY idea the double standards and the struggle women go through first hand because you are not a woman. Women have come a long way from the oppression they faced in the past, but there is still a way to go. We will probably never have a woman president. As much as many of you will I'm sure go on with some nonsense mideival beliefs about PMS making a woman incapable of a powerful position, there are women intelligent enough to make good leaders in this country. But because of the prejudices against them they will probably never have this opportunity. Lower class males at least have the benefit of being male, which in the eyes of those in charge is far more important than social status.
As for the "upper class white credo "women and children first"...I can tell you right now that most women do not believe in this either. Women are sick of being treated like fragile flowers that must be protected. Many women would prefer to be equal rather than to "go first." However, until we (women AND men) change the way things are run in this country, nothing will progress away from this.
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As much as many of you will I'm sure go on with some nonsense mideival beliefs about PMS making a woman incapable of a powerful position, there are women intelligent enough to make good leaders in this country.
What we have a tendency to "go on" about is women trying to play it both ways. A few years ago, a female attorney got her female client off the hook for murder by using PMS as a defense. Women use dozens of "syndromes" as excuses to avoid accountability and being held responsible for their actions, so they are clearly hypocrites when they turn around and whine about that same mystique of emotional instability giving people some discomfort about putting them in positions where their decision making affects millions of people.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @02:41PM EST (#73)
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As much as many of you will I'm sure go on with some nonsense mideival beliefs about PMS making a woman incapable of a powerful position, there are women intelligent enough to make good leaders in this country. But because of the prejudices against them they will probably never have this opportunity. Lower class males at least have the benefit of being male, which in the eyes of those in charge is far more important than social status.
Wow. The fem-bot is quoting strait from the Marxist Feminists lines of female victimization and oppression.
Now which consecration camp are you located at? I'd like to pay a visit and help the evil white males worsen the oppression.
Gees. What a bot. She has more privilege than any other class in the history of the world and she acts as though she is in prison because this isn't the Soviet Union and absent of a free market system. That little bitch has to work for a living and compete against an….. evil white MALE!
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @02:43PM EST (#74)
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As for the "upper class white credo "women and children first"...I can tell you right now that most women do not believe in this either.
Ah bull shit. If this were true then women would demand equal treatment in all kinds of their life experiences.
For example, this fem-bot would demand that on ladies night that she pay the same price as a male. What a liar.
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @08:30PM EST (#98)
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"Women are sick of being treated like fragile flowers that must be protected" Women are treated like "fragile flowers" in the civil and criminal courts every day of the week and I never heard them complain about this.
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>You will never have ANY idea the double >standards and the struggle women go through >first hand because you are not a woman.
I love being given options on what to argue:
1. I'm a woman, qualified as lowerclass even, and completely missed all the struggle and double standards. I get more money for college because I gotta set of breasts, I can apply for additional health insurance, companies want to hire me OVER men, housing wants me over men, cops are less likely to give me tickets, I qualify for a broader range of lowcost healthcare services, need I say more?
2. You're also claiming that all male complaints are worthless and wrong, yet you've never experienced being a male, have you?
>Women have come a long way from the oppression >they faced in the past, but there is still a way >to go. We will probably never have a woman >president.
Jeezus, a children's saturday morning TV show argued against this point, it's because women don't vote for and don't support women! Or, if she starts getting into power, she does dumbass things like Jane Swift who went and had twins, made her staff babysit them, and generally let everyone know the stereotypes about working mothers are completely TRUE and then whine about oppression from their electorate.
>As much as many of you will I'm sure go on with >some nonsense mideival beliefs about PMS making >a woman incapable of a powerful position,
Nope, but I will say that many many women TODAY get into positions of power and then want part-time work or less work, they want a mommy track, they want to quit after 15 years with a company and start a family. You know what? You can't do that if you want to be president.
>there are women intelligent enough to make good >leaders in this country. But because of the >prejudices against them they will probably never >have this opportunity.
Phhhht. Lemme also clue you into something, people here elected Hillary by a narrow margin, that margin was so narrow not because she's a poor oppressed woman, but because people don't agree with her politics! Upstate NY is a conservative state, she's a dedicated liberal, people disagree with that. Some women have the opposite problem, they are trying to get elected in liberal states with conservative values. This is actually what men in politics have to fight against, that they have to convince people their politics are right, not just that they should elected because of what is between their legs.
>I can tell you right now that most women do not >believe in this either. Women are sick of being >treated like fragile flowers that must be >protected.
But they aren't fighting to not be protected, they are fighting to be protected further! They want quotas for female employees, lowered standards for entrance into military, police, firefighting, etc. They need rape shield laws and VAWA.
>However, until we (women AND men) change the way >things are run in this country, nothing will >progress away from this.
Execellent idea! Now, go away from this thread and find some other activism projects, such as writing to domestic violence shelters to demand they accept male victims as well, that the draft board start mandatory draft for women as well, that colleges stop offering scholarships based on what is between your legs, that jobs stop having quotas.
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OH, this is RICH
" with some nonsense mideival beliefs about PMS "
It's kinda funny how "feminists" get a visceral reaction to when men mention PMS. When WOMEN talk about PMS they blame all sorts of actions on it. Women have been cleared of MUDER CHARGES by using PMS as a defense. Try another tack.
Oh .... you did:
"As for the "upper class white credo "women and children first"...I can tell you right now that most women do not believe in this either. Women are sick of being treated like fragile flowers that must be protected."
Let's see. Men don't innitiate most divorces. But the it must be ABUSE. But when men innitiate one, were bastards. Ok, so any action a woman takes makes US bastards, and any action MEN take make us bastards. How egalitarian of you. How about demanding to be a part of the draft my little cupcake? How about saying something how your gender seems to use that gash between your legs as a slot machine when it comes to child support even when women RAPE little boys? Where is your "I'm not a flower" mentality.
You're full of shit. Your flower smells.
Get lost troll house cookie.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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God, it is refreshing to hear (read) a woman who is not stuck in parroting all the old cliches of "oppression" like some wind-up toy.
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Damn, Luna, that was excellent! I am impressed. The Biscuit Queen
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Hi Steve,
Thank you also for the "sow" comment...let's add that to the list of unnecessary name calling, shall we?
Oh, dear me, yes, let's. Right next to the indirect name calling used by yourself, hm?
Firstly, yes T-Shirt Hell is a sleazy website, but it is also mainstream. I know many people who check out the website regularly, even if they do not buy the merchandise.
Really? Wow. I had never heard of it until now. I guess that just says a lot about yourself and the caliber of people you hand with.
The two examples I used are merely the worst female-insulting slogans on the site at this time, but I have seen worse. At one time the site had a line of sleeveless white undershirts, or "wife-beaters" as they are more commonly called, which had slogans of just that. All of the shirts at that time all spoke of "bitch slapping the little woman and sending her back to the kitchen where she belongs when you need another beer."
Mmmmmm. And are they allowed to be worn in your kidd's schools? And the girls told to lighten up, because it's just a t-shirt? No? Just a little apples and oranges on your part then, huh?
Although I did not see this particular shirt in any upscale malls (I do not frequent the mall contrary to your website's common belief of American women),
Not one close to your trailer park, eh?
I have seen many other derogatory slogans on bumper stickers and buttons, etc. in stores in the mall such as Spencer's Gifts and Hot Topic. My point in these examples was simply that it is not only male-bashing specific products out there. It's sick humor, and it's very "in" today.
So since it's so in, it's okay?
Also unlike the femminists you speak of, I have never had a fit over any dolls or t-shirts, nor demanded they be removed from a store because I didn't agree with them. I just keep walking and do not buy it. My only problem with your boycott is that by demanding products be removed from stores you are restricting others's right to purchase the product should they want to.
How so? Like most feminists, you discount personal actions - put out an offensive product, piss people off, go out of business, so nobody can buy your product - and of course you blame someone else rather than accept personal responsibility.
Like many other folk it's push and push to shock and get a reaction, and then when you get one, you whine.
Thanks for playing, though.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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"Hi Steve,
Thank you also for the "sow" comment...let's add that to the list of unnecessary name calling, shall we?"
For someone who originally found this site while looking for D&G products, you're awfully sensitive.
"Firstly, yes T-Shirt Hell is a sleazy website, but it is also mainstream. I know many people who check out the website regularly, even if they do not buy the merchandise."
If they're not going to buy anything, why do they check out the site regularly? That aside, as Gonzo mentioned, the comparison fails.
"Although I did not see this particular shirt in any upscale malls (I do not frequent the mall contrary to your website's common belief of American women)"
Is that on our philosophy page? As it turns out, I do have the view that women commonly spend a lot of time at malls. If you spend less time there than most women, so what?
"I have seen many other derogatory slogans on bumper stickers and buttons, etc. in stores in the mall such as Spencer's Gifts and Hot Topic."
Funny, around these parts those stores only carry products with anti-male slogans.
"Also unlike the femminists you speak of, I have never had a fit over any dolls or t-shirts, nor demanded they be removed from a store because I didn't agree with them."
You should be proud.
"My only problem with your boycott is that by demanding products be removed from stores you are restricting others's right to purchase the product should they want to."
"Right to purchase"? Good Lord what'll they think of next? No, there is no "right to purchase". No store is required to stock any merchandise just because you might want to purchase it. If I find something objectionable at a store and let them know that I won't shop there because of it, that's my right, (a real right, the right to free speech). If they agree and remove the merchandise, or if they decide it's bad for business to keep it up because so many people are offended by it, that's their right, (also a real right because of our free market).
You don't get to force me to continue shopping at a store which carries products promoting violence towards boys, and to additionally force the store to continue carrying the line based on some imaginary "right to purchase" you think you have.
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you are restricting others's right to purchase
Just when I thought I had heard everything, along comes a feminist sow (the double oughts version of "Male Chauvinst PIG") complaining about infringement on her right to purchase!!!
yessir, feminidiocy is about e-kwal-it-tee, fer sure!
On the MND boards, before they got torched, a former military man described his experience in combat and how if one was receiving a lot of return fire, that one must be close to the heavily defended target.
Given the amount of flak that this site has been getting of late, it would seem that it is definitely hitting close to home on such burning feminist issues as the right to purchase .
yessiree, women surely do "still have a long way to go" if their right to purchase is being infringed in any way!!!
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"Firstly, yes T-Shirt Hell is a sleazy website, but it is also mainstream. I know many people who check out the website regularly, even if they do not buy the merchandise. The two examples I used are merely the worst female-insulting slogans on the site at this time, but I have seen worse. At one time the site had a line of sleeveless white undershirts, or "wife-beaters" as they are more commonly called, which had slogans of just that. All of the shirts at that time all spoke of "bitch slapping the little woman and sending her back to the kitchen where she belongs when you need another beer.""
I'd be more than happy to take part in a boycott of those products as well.
The point we're trying to make, Uhave, is that if there were a nationwide boycott of shirts making light of violence against women, people would nod their heads and sign the petition. Which is fine. But men and boys are expected to be much more tolerant and stoic when the defamation and violence-advocacy is directed toward them. We're expected to laugh it off, lest we should be labelled "oversensitive".
All I can tell you is I haven't seen any stores (nor people who have purchased) shirts, bumper stickers, keychains, magnets, greeting cards, and the like defaming women/girls and making light of abusing them, whereas I HAVE seen oodles of such products "aimed" (almost literally) at men/boys. I, for one, won't deny that women and girls do face their fair share of double standards....but we can't put an end to them by creating more of them.
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it is a widely accepted fact that anyone who uses numbers and single letters in place of ords (with the exception of fathers 4 justice) must be an unbelievably dull, pop music listening, idiot.
UR AN IDIOT U FREAKIN' TROLL
now just go away
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You're right jimmy"d." People who use single letters within their handles, (of course except for Fathers 4 Justice), could never be as intellectually superior as you.
Also, thank you for proving my point about many of the people on this site with the name-calling. That was indeed a very mature response and wow, you completely changed my mind. Your troll comment truly helped me to see the error of my ways.
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first of all lets clear something up, shall we? A troll is commen message board/ chatroom term. a troll is a person who posts a message or ststement that is intended to start a verbal fistfight. i personaly believe that you are a troll and i stand by that. As for the use of the letter d in my username, i was the fourth person on my football to arive that wanted to be known by the name Jimmy. So logicly thier was jimmya,b, c, and what would you known, jimmyd. also since i believe you to be a troll i saw (and still see) no reason to reason with you. so i decided to give you what you want a flame war so that you would go away. now as far as your general complaints against the movement go. We are not forcing people into dropping the line of clothing in question. we merrly send e-mails, letters,and phone calls displaying our displeasure with these items. they drop them of thier own freewill. Icould go on and on about how workingclass men have many disadvantages that working class women don't but i'am bored with you already so i won't
take it or leave it,
jimmyd
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @12:30PM EST (#57)
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"a troll is a person who posts a message or ststement that is intended to start a verbal fistfight". Correct. I feel the feminists may repsond to future campaigns by Glenn by submitting posts here which question the validity of the campaign. These posts will claim that the campaign is flawed for political reasons, for racial reasons, for economic reasons etc. The aim is to break our unity of purpose and promote heated promoted debate on left/right issues,racial issues, religious issues etc. This, I'm afraid, happens all to easily. Stalingrad would not have been won if the Russians had spent their time debating on whether the battle should be fought. Whatever Glenn's next campaign is,all our focus must be on HOW we are going to win it and what tactics we are going to use. Any posts questioning the validity of the campaign are mostlikely from feminist trolls and should be ignored or deleted.
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just ignore them don't censor them
we don't need to use that kind of ignorant assine tactic
--jimmyd
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @03:02PM EST (#75)
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These posts will claim that the campaign is flawed for political reasons, for racial reasons, for economic reasons etc. The aim is to break our unity of purpose and promote heated promoted debate on left/right issues,racial issues, religious issues etc.
Just wait. The retaliation on the part of the Marxist Feminist will be MUCH worse than you can imagine. I've already been through it in Sacramento, California.
It will of course include organized spam attacks, frivilous law suits, the usual infamous false allegations of whatever they can imagine, and more. You will know it when they attack. It will be an all out war and there will be casualties.
Warble
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All this talk about "denying me my right to by such-and-such a product" is so much drivel. Friend, you don't have a "right" to any product.
What you have a "right" to do is spend your money on the products you want, if, IF, a company chooses to sell them. If a company chooses not to sell them, you can stamp your feet and piss and moan all you want, to little effect. You can't make them sell something to you.
What we have done is simply told various retail outlets that we would prefer they not sell these products. We have voiced our displeasure. We made it clear that if they continue to sell them, we will find other places to shop. (Another "right" we have as consumers.)
John Doe's Clothing Store is under no obligation to sell what we want, and we are under no obligation to buy anything from him. That is the "free" in free market asserting itself.
What you have failed to grasp is the very concept of freedom. Love her or hate her (and some on this site do both), Ayn Rand made a very good statement regarding freedom:
"Freedom, in a political context, means freedom from government coercion. It does not mean freedom from the landlord, or freedom from the employer, or freedom from the laws of nature which do not provide men with automatic prosperity. It means freedom from the coercive power of the state - and nothing else."
Keep re-reading that until it sinks in. We have restricted nobody's freedom. You don't have a "right" to such-and-such a product, you simply have a "right" to buy whatever a retailer decides to sell. If they don't sell what you want, you are free to go somewhere else. You can neither force a retailer to sell, nor can the retailer force you to buy. (By "force" I mean physical force.)
So the next time you are tempted to accuse us of taking away your "right" to such-and-such a product, think again.
You don't have a "right" to it if the retailer decides to stop selling it.
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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If this move on the part of men and fathers is so lame, it should be easy for you Uhave to gather supporters, go to the retailers and demand they put hurtful slogans back on their shelves.
Unless of course your ambivalence you would rather go after the purveyors of anti-female merchandise. (Which you haven't in the past, even though you "check them out" all the time.)
Maybe logging on here and trying to cause trouble is your only motivation. It's much easier than standing up for what you believe in, like many here have done.
"Those that can do, those that can't teach, those that are too stupid for either of the above criticize."
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Please forgive the above. I was typing in a hurry. I meant to say:
"Unless of course your ambivalence prevents you. Maybe you would rather go after the purveyors of anti-female merchandise."
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @11:39AM EST (#53)
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I will continue to buy David and Goliath products (most of which say nothing about boys at all) because I find them amusing, and because that is my right as an American citizen.
Now get this fem-bot. If boys at my local high school were to wear similar tees they would be sued for creating a hostile environment.
So, you go ahead and create your fem-bot hostile environment at my local high school and we'll see you in court.
You have nobody to blame but your fem-bot ass because this is the law that feminist insisted must be present to protect them.
Finally, it is interesting that this fem-bot has bought into the feminist line of evil white males when she writes, "I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy world you all live in where women, or anything but old upper class white men, are controlling this country."
She forgets all about how women have the majority vote and hates the fact that her own gender is responsible for the current gender combination. It is women and only women that are controlling who gets elected into office with the views that they support.
What a hateful bigot!
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @08:18PM EST (#96)
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"Go outside and live life instead.." The whole object of mensactivism is to have a society where men can "live life". However we want to live life as first class citizens and not crawl through life as third class citizens. We want life worth living and not the feminist hell hole we inhabit at the moment....and we WILL have it!
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @05:21PM EST (#5)
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"I have a very quirky, sarcastic sense of humor," Goldman said in a telephone interview. "Most people just love the cartoons. If a few people don't like them, they don't have to buy them."
This fool misses the point. How 'bout I make a shirt that said "girls are stupid, bitch slap 'em" and sold them to young boys. Then when women complain I'll say "hey if you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em". "Hey i'm just being cute and quirky".
Here's what he also said
"Goldman said the controversy about his products has boosted sales, especially over the Internet.
"It's the best advertisement I can ask for," he said. "We're one of the hottest junior lines out there."
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wir e/sns-ap-stupid-boys-protest,0,6681741.story?coll= sns-ap-nation-headlines
P. George
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Todd Goldman, CEO of David and Goliath, has arrogantly stated that Glenn Sack's and supporter's campaign has "increased his sales from their direct Internet site."
So, what tactics do we have available to finish Stalingrad by depriving this arsehole of his 'Net-based profits?
The successful boycott of his retail outlets has been won.
Now, what about direct marketing off the Web?
Anybody know how to give him a nice dose of MyDoom?
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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How about swamping them with e-mails? We could send hundreds per person, and get every group you can to cut and paste a protest letter if they don't want to take time to write. May not slow down sales but will mess up their ordering system!TBQ
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @07:43PM EST (#16)
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It seems that David and Goliath has removed from its website its toll free number (or at least it isn't where I remember finding it). Fortunately, I wrote it down. See above. It still works for the time being.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @03:10PM EST (#76)
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Great! I'm calling shortly to ask for a "Girls are Stupid; Bitch Slap-em" tee! I'll make the initial order for 20. We should all flood their lines asking for similar slogans.
Warble
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even as a joke, this idea belongs in the dreck bin. By suggesting this you're joining his ranks, and that isn't something you want, is it?
Must I remind you of Goldman's position? I thought not.
The Shark
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @05:30PM EST (#85)
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If I were to follow through then the first thing that would happen is to shop drop a few "Girls are Stupid; Bitch Slap-em" tees at clairs next to the offensive anti-boy shirts.
Not a joke. Strategy. A strategy of illustrating the absurd with the absurd.
Warble
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Then this is where you and I differ. Since our work here is becoming more and more effective, I don't consider this tactic reasonable in the slightest.
It reminds me of the PETA crowd work: stand outside of KFC and show animals in distress. Stand outside the grocery and hand out flyers calling your mother a murderer for buying meat. Not only has this proven ineffective over time, it has alienated the general population.
Feminism is a slight of hand movement, with empty rhetoric to help conceal it. Much of their work relies on lies, deceit, and victimology. Although I appreciate your strategic mind work, I wouldn't be interested in participating with you in this instance. I’m not willing to stoop to their level, or Goldman’s for that matter.
Of course, a good army does have those soldiers that must do the dirty work. Also, in order to fight guerilla warfare you must utilize guerilla strategy. And then there’s the good cop, bad cop play.
Tell you what, I'll admonish you publicly while providing funds under the table. Reasonable?
(wink)
The Shark
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @07:31PM EST (#94)
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Tell you what, I'll admonish you publicly while providing funds under the table. Reasonable?
I just luv the way you think....this may have some merit......
Warble
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Yes, my friend. We will revisit this in the near future. I'm growing a guerilla on my back :)
The Shark
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"Goldman said the controversy about his products has boosted sales, especially over the Internet.
"It's the best advertisement I can ask for," he said.
While it's possible that he sold a bit more during the last two months because of the "free advertising", certainly the loss of future orders from Claire's has lowered his sales overall, in spite of any temporary increase in his website orders. So now we shut up about it, move on to other things, and see how well he can do without the retailors OR the controversy.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 29, @06:17PM EST (#11)
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"So now we shut up about it, move on to other things". Agreed, or better still,await Glenn's next campaign. The campaign was to take D&G trash out of our shopping malls and high streets. This victory has been achieved.
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Unfortunately, in the malls and high streets, Todd Goldberg's misandrist profits will still be much in evidence.
The human billboards sporting his crap will buy it off his still unrepentent web site.
His web site source of arrogant supremacy is still intact.
I can't accept that as "victory."
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @03:14PM EST (#77)
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"Goldman said the controversy about his products has boosted sales, especially over the Internet.
"It's the best advertisement I can ask for," he said.
He is of course (IMHO) lying. He'll never be able to support selling the products without the distribution infrastructure provided by department stores. There is a reason that department stores exist. If we could buy everything off the Internet then the department stores would have collapsed long ago. Don't believe the bluff!
Warble
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yeah he is funny in a way, for he is punch, the foolish king for a day, for he doesn't realize that at the end of day he will be sacrificed as well... solanis'es evil little book got me thinking about Goldman he is one of those pawns that women like solanis would use to destory other men. he truly is a fool, and he plays it well
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he doesn't realize that at the end of day he will be sacrificed as well
That's exactly right. What Goldman doesn't realize is that he's just fueling the hatred against himself, because he has the very same plumbing that his shirts make fun of.
If he seriously thinks that he's a friend to extreme feminists, he's deluding himself. They hate him as much as any man, for that very reason: he's a man! (Admittedly, a sorry excuse for one.) Two things put him on their enemy list:
1. He's male
2. He makes a profit.
Both are enough to bring out the most vicious hatred in any feminist. Of course, profit in and of itself isn't necessarily bad. But then, that's where the free market comes in: No one is obligated to line Goldman's wallet with green. (That's what our resident troll in this thread can't seem to comprehend. Nobody owes Goldman one ounce of support.)
Goldman needs to wake up and smell the coffee. He can make a profit today, but ultimately he's shooting himself in the foot: He's a male, and that's all the reason feminists need to hate his guts. Lots of profit is good, but when you sell your soul for that profit, what has one gained? (Mark 8:36 comes to mind.) The feminists will pretend to be his friend today, but tomorrow they'll be more than willing to cut his throat, all because he has a penis. It's a shame he's too blinded by his money to see that.
Wake up Goldman! The only reason the extreme feminists tolerate you now is because you're selling a product with a message they approve of. Once nobody buys your garbage anymore, feminists will disgard you like an old coat.
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @06:18PM EST (#91)
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Wake up Goldman! The only reason the extreme feminists tolerate you now is because you're selling a product with a message they approve of.
Naw. This guy is hardcore. He'll wake-up when he lifts up his eyes, after a few false allegations, and find that he is in jail. Then he will wonder what happened. I for one will have no sympathy for those that get a fair warning.
Warble
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Hey, despite what he says, Claires dropping the line is going to seriously drop sales. Yipee! Plus it's going to sincerely decrease the amount of time I have to spend seeing these things, which means it is eventually going to fade out because if you don't see this crap everywhere, nobody askes "where did you get that?" and they don't add to profitability.
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I applaud Glenn's stance, and fundamental ownership of the issue at the possible expense of his reputation. His hard work and dedication is paying big dividends for this movement, and my gratitude is fully on display right here, right now.
Thank you, Glenn.
I wrote several letters, called BonMacy's (know someone in the upper upper management at Federated), and know that many of you acted responsibly as well. My hand is extended in appreciation to each of you.
Thank you for your participation.
But now to the expertly exposed and currently bloodied center of the subject.
I do not like the ideas you display, Mr. Goldman’s (and Mr. is very loosely applied here) cartoons (cartoon is also very loosely applied). I do not like how you spoof a group which cannot defend itself. By manipulating a current state of injustice against this specific group (my God, man…little boys?), you are profiting from a type of hate that is best compared with what the Nazis practiced. Mr. Goldman, are you unable to correlate how such things often manifest themselves into something more, and how your actions contribute and act as accomplice to the current climate of feminist driven gendercide?
To advocate violence against this innocent segment of the population is a most egregious error in judgment, Mr. Goldman. In doing so, you have aligned yourself with the very group which wants you extinct, and against the honest group that fights for you existence. You have my condolences, sir. I will not be sending flowers.
In closing, I cannot sit idly by with zipper locked lips or self-manacled hands and act the coward. I must practice my First Amendment Rights, and speak out against injustice where I find it. I urge those of you yet to voice your feelings or take up the pen to do so now. The fight awaits you, and its rewards are a better future for all of our sons and daughters.
Enjoy.
The Shark
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Go to Claires web site
Call local stores
Ask them to remove product from shelves
Trust but Verify!!!
This is tantamount to fomenting bigotry...and local media should be called in to display product yet on the shelves!! in as many markets as activist parents of children can muster!!!
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 31, @03:56PM EST (#110)
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Apple,
I agree that the media SHOULD display that garbage. and show the public this un-deniable hate-speech.
I still remember in the late 80's when women and feminists protested 'DETECTIVE" magazines in stores because the covers often depicted women in "damsel in distress", bondage and rape situations. (They were as bad as they said, too, they were awful!!) Anyway the news media were all over that story, showing those covers and interviewing women about "how thet felt" about the covers.
Finaly the magazine manufacturers were forced to CHANGE the covers of the books or take them off the shelf.
They oppted to change the covers, but slowly the magazines disapeared from the shelves, possibly permenantly. Come to think of it, i don't remember seeing ANY of those mags, any more.
So yeah, the media should be all over THIS story as well, but they're not. And I'm not holding my breath that they WILL.
Thundercloud.
"Hika hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 31, @04:01PM EST (#111)
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That should be "HOKA hey!"
Not "HIKA hey!"
I haven't been drinking, I swear!
No, REALLY.
Really, I haven't.
...Really...
Thundercloud.
"Hika..., I mean HOKA hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 31, @07:52PM EST (#114)
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Hey Thundercloud! Maybe I missed posts but I haven't seen you around in a while. Good to see you again.
Marc
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 01, @11:40AM EST (#121)
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Marc,
Thank you.
I've been back for a while now.
I had computer problems and such.
And yeah there's a smattering of my posts around.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 30, @05:22PM EST (#83)
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But there's something more fundamental going on here. It cuts to the foundation of feminism. They can feel it, even if they are not fully conscious of it.
Make no mistake. The feminist groups are fully aware of this organized effort, and they are quite pissed. Don't underestimate their resolve to launch a counter attack.
Warble
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We're winning and we're winning fast.
The world is opening its eyes to the existence of misandry and anti-male discrimination. A great many people are beginning to see and to reject the hatred upon which feminism stands.
We are winning fast for a number of reasons.
First, there is nothing about these products which are defensible in any way. All that the management of Tilley's had to do was look at them and it was obvious that they got caught with their fly open. The only reason this crap stayed on the market as long as it did was because no one objected. Just look at how absolutely lame the resistance was - "you are infringing on my right to purchase".
Second, any bully will back down when really challenged. I think there is an immense lesson in this for how much of a paper tiger feminism really is. Once men have gotten over the fearful state of "Oh, we don't want them calling us nasty names - like 'misogynist' ", the tiger was effectively defanged. I'm not saying that it hasn't been difficult for men to reach that point, but now that men have, there will be no going back.
Third, men (and some good women) persevered and did not allow the bullies to shame us off the only morally defensible position possible. This bullshit of "it was only a joke" is just that - bullshit. Everyone could see through that, and see the hatred and contempt which was not concealed in any way.
It reminds me of the scenario in which a woman speaker at a banquet told the tired old man-bashing joke that ends with "... the woman's brain was used" and one lone man stood up and started booing. I hope the day has come that when an arrogant fool tells a joke like that, that the entire audience will be on their feet booing and hissing for the bigot to sit down and shut up.
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" It reminds me of the scenario in which a woman speaker at a banquet told the tired old man-bashing joke that ends with "... the woman's brain was used" and one lone man stood up and started booing."
A few years back, a friend and I went to a comedy club and one of the comedians started a bit bashing men. He didn't get real far into it when I started heckling him. We exchanged a few remarks before he got pissed and told me that he didn't go work I work and heckle me. So I told him if my work ever included promoting bigotry he was welcome to interfere in any way he'd like. He tried telling another man bashing joke, got no response from the audience and wrapped it up soon after.
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All that the management of Tilley's had to do was look at them and it was obvious that they got caught with their fly open.
I've been having fun imagining the reaction of the execs at Universal Studios, who were probably only marginally aware that they even owned a department store.
"We're selling WHAT????"
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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Check out the suggestion box Goldman has set up on his website. It states:
"Due to recent protest of some of our products, we have created a suggestion box to capture your thoughts."
Well, whadaya say? Let's give Goldman some suggestions!
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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Observe what happens when you submit a negative suggestion:
An pop-up animation of a boy throwing a piece of paper in a trashcan shows up, with the text reading "You must be from the stupid factory!"
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 31, @05:27PM EST (#112)
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for god's sake. These tshirts are meant as jokes.
If the men's rights movement is going to be as hysterical, uptight, and humorless as the feminist movement - and from what I've seen lately that's EXACTLY how it is - then I want no part of it.
And, as usual, the people organizing this campaign against these thsirts are too dim to understand that such campaigns merely create publicity for the product, and result in more sales.
I, for one, may buy such a tshirt for my (non-feminist) niece, on principle.
-nutboy
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I, for one, may buy such a tshirt for my (non-feminist) niece, on principle.
Fine, and while you're at it, if you have a nephew have a shirt with a similar message about little girls made for him, and let me know how well the "joke" goes over.
I'll look forward to hearing from you, nutboy (nice choice of nickname, by the way; like any good label, it really does say it all).
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 01, @02:52AM EST (#118)
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so you would have us sink to the level of radical feminists who get whiney about every harmless joke that in their twisted minds "encourages violence against womyn", then? So you are saying that feminists are RIGHT to whine, and that men should start doing the exact same thing?
don't you see? Their are two responses to this feminist silliness: sink to their level, or demand that THEY rise to a higher level, i.e a level where people don't wet their panties and have a conniption snit over a bloody, harmless T-SHIRT. Obviously, you prefer the former; I very much prefer the latter.
you, and those who support this whiney, antifree speech campaign, are no better than the feminists. Shame on you.
and btw making fun of my nickname is really a pathetic way to try to score points. My nickname is at it is partly to identify those who are dim, and who seize on it as a straw they can grasp.
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so you would have us sink to the level of radical feminists who get whiney about every harmless joke that in their twisted minds "encourages violence against womyn"...
We're not protesting some joke or image that is in questionable taste. We are protesting the overt, direct promotion of violence, violence. aganinst CHILDREN for heck's sake. Also, look at it this way: feminists clearly see humor of this kind as presageing actual violence. How then should we react when they start making such jokes themselves? Jen K. has told about her son being subjected to violence by a teenage girl, and how no one seemed to feel it was a big deal. It seems to me that this is the best way to begin fighting that attitude.
you, and those who support this whiney, antifree speech campaign, are no better than the feminists. Shame on you.
As someone else has pointed out, if we were really behaving like feminists we wouldn't be using a boycott, a tool of the free-market, against this kind of stuff. We'd be demanding new laws against it, and pushing to have girls wearing these shirts expelled from school for creating a hostile environment. Sorry, but not every taste will be accommodated, even in the freest of markets.
don't you see? Their are two responses to this feminist silliness: sink to their level, or demand that THEY rise to a higher level, i.e a level where people don't wet their panties and have a conniption snit over a bloody, harmless T-SHIRT. Obviously, you prefer the former; I very much prefer the latter.
Getting feminists to rise to a higher level would be fine. However, I'm old enough to remember when the feminst inspiered male-bashing trend amond American women first got started. A lot of men, me included, just ignored it and figured women would work out whatever they had to work out and life would go on. However, that's not what happened. Their rage built and built, and was used as a tool by the feminists, until we have a situation today where a man can be have his life virtually destroyed on a woman's unsupported word. Don't believe me? Just search this site a little and you'll find some stories. And do you know what the reply was whenever anyone called them on their man-bashing? "I don't hear any men complaining." I played into that attitude then, and I'm not doing it any longer. But, by all means, you go ahead and keep on trying to appeal to their better natures. If you make any progress, you'll be the first.
and btw making fun of my nickname is really a pathetic way to try to score points.
[sarcasm]C'mon, man, I was joking![/sarcasm]
The "humor" isn't so pleasant when you're the target, is it?
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A lot of men, me included, just ignored it and figured women would work out whatever they had to work out and life would go on.
Me, too.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 01, @01:49PM EST (#124)
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Yeah, me too.
But I won't keep silent any longer, either.
For the record, I was an Indian activist before I became a men's activist, as well.
The main reason i became a Men's activist was that As an Indian activist I saw the EXACT sort of hate-speech and dehumanizing language comeing from feminists and MANY women about MEN, as I heared hate-speech and dehumanizing language comeing from the Ku Klux Klan about Indians.
The diffrence being that alot of us Indians are working to DO something about the ethnic hatred and stereotypes thrown at us, But at the time i became a men's rights activist, there seemed to be very FEW men standing up for themselves.
Another similarity is that the media will not report on either Indian activists OR men's activists.
The media seems to hate Indians as much as it does men.
So no offense 'nutboy', But I have to speak out against ANY kind of hate speech. That includes anti-female hate-speech, as well as anti-Indian hate-speech and anti-male hate-speech.
I wonder if more people had stood up to hate-speech and propaganda in nazi Germany if perhaps MILLIONS of Jews would not have had to be tortured and murdered.
As an Indian who's people went through something very similar in this country as the Jews went through in nazi Germany, I can tell you with certainty I do not want to go through what my acestors went through. Then we went through it for being Indians. I refuse to enduer the same thing for being MEN!
And in ALL cases it always begins with a "little joke". But "little jokes" tend to grow into something more insidious.
Ask any Jewish person, or any Indian.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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. . .makes the message okay because. . .
. . .uh, why, exactly?
What's *funny* is that *nobody ever seems to answer that question*.
It's always just assumed that somehow -- magically; the means is never explained -- the response "It's just a joke," excuses or justifies something.
I'd like to see a genuine, valid, supportable explanation for a change.
And please keep in mind, should you answer, that these messages of hatred and violence are specifically targeting our. . .*children*.
Ack!
Non Illegitimi Carborundum, and KOT!
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If the men's rights movement is going to be as hysterical, uptight, and humorless as the feminist movement - and from what I've seen lately that's EXACTLY how it is - then I want no part of it.
OK. Your choice.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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I was having dinner at a diner this afternoon and overheard two guys in the booth behind me.
1st man: Canada? Canada! The only things come out of Canada are hookers and hockey players!
2nd man: My wife is from Canada.
1st man: What team does she play for?
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 01, @01:52PM EST (#125)
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Larry.
That's pretty funny! (^_^)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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I gotta admit I stole it from Bob Hope.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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Our culture has a very long history of using humor to reinforce social biases. From stereotyping blacks by painting them and having them perform like monkeys, to Bugs Bunny fighting the commies, to Lucile Ball frantically trying to stay on her husband's good side, to John Daley pretending to make Iraqis say stupid self-demeaning things, we find all sorts of things humorous which feed into what is acceptable for the day. Not all are bad. It is funny when a child gets caught after trying so hard to get away with something (like sneaking out.)
Taken in this light, things are only funny when socially acceptable, or commonplace and easily related to. Notice much of the humor above is no longer seen as funny because our society has changed. Blacks, 'Commies', and women are no longer thought of as a targets or inferior or a threat, so are no longer the subject of that type of derogatory humor.
Some of D&Gs slogans are funny. "Sometimes I like to run around in my underwear for no reason" IS funny. So is "Once I farted in class and everybody laughed." Even "Boys have cooties" is fine, because it reflects the way young girls normally think about boys. A "Girls have cooties" shirt would likewise not raise a ruckus. None of these promotes hatred or violence.
Throwing rocks at little boys, or anyone, SHOULD not be socially acceptable.Throwing garbage, poop, poking eyes out, making them pets, giving them lobotomies, these should not be socially acceptable, commonplace, nor funny.
My son was assaulted by a girl in school, repeatedly. He was kicked, bit, punched, and no one said a word. Yet if a boy even threatens a girl he is reprimanded (I have seen this first hand)So yes, violence against boys IS a problem.
What is your problem with our opinion. We are not effecting you in the least. We are using non-violent, legal means of protest. How is this effecting you? Maybe because we are being effective? Is that scaring you? We are making a fuss because this is a doable project. We cannot change laws, we cannot change the media, but we CAN have an effect here.
We are not dim, we are taking a calculated risk. Yes, some sales may be boosted, but we have just shut down most of his retail outlets in the states. Little girls, to whom he is marketing, will not be exposed to this drivel by chance. If people want the shirts they are available, for adults to purchase for their children. It also has drawn attention to the school districts, which, after one meeting, our local distrct will not allow these slogans into the school. They are a direct violation of the school dress codes stating "no clothing or fashion may be worn which promotes the use of alcohol,drugs or violence."
So, if we are dim, then we are effective none the less. If you are here making a stink, you must feel threatened in your position. Good.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 01, @02:08PM EST (#126)
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Jenk.
Very well said!
Something else that concerns me.
It is not just little boys that we need to be concerned about. we should be concerned about both boys and girls.
Yes the T-shirts may incourage girls to throw rocks at boys, but what happens when the boys get p!$$ed off and start throwing rocks right BACK?!?
When I was a kid if someone threw something at me. no matter what it was, Dirt, rocks, mud, a dead squirrel, or what ever, the first thing I did was throw the same thing right back at them.
And judgeing from my observation of today's kids, not much has changed.
So no good can come from these T-shirts. No good at all.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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"for god's sake. These tshirts are meant as jokes."
This is what irks me the most about modern society. All my life I have listened and watched as feminists and women-firsters complained and moaned and bitched and whined about every little problem in their life. Anything from being told they *must* wear makeup to how males constantly rape and beat them every day to how much more difficult the life of a beautiful woman is to how easy a man's life is. And society listens and sympathizes and throws money and apologies at them NO QUESTIONS ASKED. When a female complains about her lot in life, society considers this FACT. What women complain about is undeniable gospel truth to the point where society ITSELF is altered and changed to change those problems.
Then, some people wake up and realize, "Holy cow! Maybe *men* have problems as well and are discriminated against as well." And what is the reply? "Stop your whining!" "What's the big deal?!" "You're making a fuss over NOTHING!" "It's just a joke!" "Who cares?"
Well that last one has an answer. WE care. We care that males are considered second-class citizens. WE care that males are stuck in there gender-roles as wallets and damage-shields. WE care that males have problems in our society. WE care that society trains its people to ignore the problems of men. WE care that no one seems to care about a male unless his life is affecting someone else.
"If the men's rights movement is going to be as hysterical, uptight, and humorless as the feminist movement - and from what I've seen lately that's EXACTLY how it is - then I want no part of it."
This movement is for people (both men AND women) that have woken up and realized that "Hey! The life of a man is NOT all roses and sunshine!" If you DON'T think that discriminating against males is serious, then maybe you shouldn't be part of it, because if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
R
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