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I dunno about this submission. Okay, Malkin is a woman, and okay, she's making some assumptions about how men are expected to have some measure of integrity and accountability for their actions. And actually, I think Janklow is being rather remiss in how he's handling this.
But I think that just because Malkin is a woman and Janklow is a man, we might be getting a little oversensitive to such an expectation. I don't really think her intentions were sexist, and in fact, I think one of the good things about masculinity tends to be our personal penchant for individual accountability. The down side of this is that it leads otherwise intelligent men to accept the feminist assertion that men are cruel, heartless souls who lust for blood and sex overules their better nature. Generally, I think Malkin respects men and masculinity and means no harm here.
This kind of reminds me of the African-American sensitivity to the use of the n***** word. Like it's okay to use it if you're black, but it's downright heretical to use it if you're white. It's kind of like deliberately keeping an old wound open just so you can demonstrate some pain whenever you think you're justified in being offended.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 03, @12:01AM EST (#17)
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Whites who have used the word "nigger" have historically used the word to make black people feel inferior to whites. When blacks call each other "nigga" it is not used in the context of white supremacy.
Looking at the historical relationship between blacks and whites it is no wonder that a black person might feel sensitive and offended when a white person uses a word that has been historically used by whites to subjugate people with black skin.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 04, @01:30AM EST (#21)
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I agree with dittohd we must stand up to this form of shaming and that's what it is,shaming and that is something which we must not allow. Men today are in an oppressed position and we must not allow bigots on the right or the left to marginalize us.
Masc
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I think you're wrong on this. If I thought Malkin was an anti-male bigot, like Allred or Wolf or DeCoster, I'd have already sent my hate mail. But Malkin uses some editorial licenses here and means no harm.
We're just likely to piss off another potential ally.
As far as the difference between the word "nigga" and the word "nigger" I see no semantic difference except the spelling, which I regard as inconsequential. If the term is offensive, don't use it. If it's not offensive, get out of my face. Don't come to me and say the offensiveness of the term is purely dependent on the source. In my estimation, that, in and of itself, constitutes bigotry. I have no patience for bigotry no matter its source.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 04, @10:42PM EST (#27)
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That's just the real world. It is a fact that whites used the word nigger to subjugate black people. The source has everything to do with the reason black people might be sensitive and offended when a white person uses the word nigger.
It brings up much different feelings for a black person when a white person says nigger than when a black person says it. White people have used that word to make black people feel inferior. That's just the real world, people have feelings.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 02, @11:19AM EST (#2)
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Definatley an overreaction! If anything taking responsibility is a man's trait saying diabetes made me do it is like saying "I had cramp's" Lets not over react! Craig
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comparing cramps and Diabetes is like comparing a pinprick with a shotgun wound, cramps can't send you into shock ( god forbid your behind the wheel while that happens). cramps can't take away one's leg or arm as diabetes can. this is not saying that the senitor shouldn't have watched his sugar levels and controlled his diabetes but lets watch the comparisons.
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Malkin may be "man friendly" but she needs to be educated about using the emotive term, "act like a man." This one phrase has probably sent more people to the grave yard than any other.
It can be interpreted in any number of negative ways. For instance, some pinheads (both male and female) think it means having enough muscle mass to push other people around and intimidate.
In sum, it is a form of social blackmail against men and should be recognized as such. However, it may be intuitive to note that society seems to be longing for the positive traditional male traits like accepting responsibility. Perhaps feminist fatigue is setting in. Why shouldn't it? Radical feminism has been a loathsome burden to bear and has practically destroyed all of our social mores. Back to male basics would be a breath of fresh air!
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 02, @12:41PM EST (#4)
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I wrote this email to Ms. Malkin:
==================================================
"Dear Ms. Malkin:
I read in your article, "Whiners of the Year," where you say Rep. Janklow should, "Take it Like a Man."
You seem to be alluding to the ideology that he, should fall in line with the Stalinist Feminist model for men, where today in America "taking it like a man" has come to mean that any man must confess to any allegation against him, and admit guilt and complicity without protest. If you are not saying that, then could you be saying that he should just "get tough or die," that time old, honored, chivalrous ideal used by so many females to lump men together into a disposable unit for their exploitation. You may have noticed that 99.9% of combat deaths and casualties in Iraq are men, yet "all people" will benefit for a more stable Mid-East (which I believe is the goal).
I am not disputing the fact that Rep. Janklow is guilty, or that he needs to acknowledged his guilt, but I adamantly dispute your sexist use of the term, "take it like a man." I for one as a New Year's resolution, will no longer "take it like a man," because I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO THE FEMINIST MODEL FOR MEN, or the Chivalrous exploiters interpretation either.
I suggest you resolve in the New Year to refrain from stereotyping men into one broad sexist, disposable category, as so much of media, entertainment and government freely do.
In closing, please Iet me remind you of the words, "EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL." If you as the rest of media, entertainment, and government continue to carelessly look at men as just a group that can be stereotypes and categorizes for the sake of expediency, exploitation, and disposability, then I can guarantee that the last of my protests regarding the aforementioned will not have been heard.
Perhaps in one of your future articles you could clarify your position, and explain to us all, your meaning of the term "take it like a man." I can't speak for other men, but I for one am sick and tired of "taking it like a man," In this politically correct land of equal opportunity, equal justice and equal protection for all I'd like to start "taking it like a woman." Judging by all the health, longevity, education and employment statistics females seem to be fairing much better than males these days. “Taking it like a privileged woman” would definitely be a step up as long as we can’t just “take it like a responsible human being.”
Sincerely, Ray"
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I agree with Ray.
The feminazis have long enjoyed their privileged "appropriation of language" as a major weapon against men's rights.
The basic (post-modernist) insight is absolutely correct: "H/she who defines the terms of the argument prevails!"
Always, always (always!) .... look for the ulterior assumptions that, like oxygen, get taken-for-granted in any discourse about gender!
Then, follow those assumptions like a trail of dung back to the foundational feminist lie!
The men's movement clearly needs more semioticians! (Except, they're mostly French, so I guess we'll dispense with that potential arsenal ...)
"Sticks and stones may break my bones.... but WORDS are the real lethal weaponry!"
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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Great response Ray. The concluding sentence "“Taking it like a privileged woman” would definitely be a step up as long as we can’t just “take it like a responsible human being.”" was a thing of beauty.
Mens Rights 2004 Congress
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 02, @01:16PM EST (#6)
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Oh, come on, people.
In this instance, "act like a man" was used to express the wish that he own up to his actions and act like a responsible adult.
In other words, behaving like a weasel or victimised feminist type (e.g. "it's somebody/something else's fault") isn't manly.
I agree. I vote the people sensitive to this particular thing as whiners of the year, too.
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To: The above anonymous poster
I personally think you should act like a man and sign your postings, rather than hide behind the anonymous label like a child. Get a handle and post your comments like a REAL man!
Dittohd
P.S. Does this posting make you angry? It doesn't bother you that someone tries to manipulate you by asserting that if you don't act in a certain way, you are less of a man? Do you not automatically consider acting in that certain way to prove to all our other posters that you are, in fact, a REAL man?
How is this different from the person who starts off their argument with, "As everybody knows...". In fact, both are signs that the person doesn't have the intelligence or valid argument to back up their assertions. So instead, they attempt to shame that person into submission or agreement.
Admonishing a male to "act like a man" is a sexist manipulation, pure and simple, and no different from asserting that all women belong at home, barefoot and pregnant.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 02, @03:14PM EST (#10)
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RE: I personally think you should act like a man and sign your postings, rather than hide behind the anonymous label like a child. Get a handle and post your comments like a REAL man!
So, your assertion is that someone who couldn't be arsed to get a handle, and posts anonymously as a result, is a child? And you're the one complaining about people trying to be manipulative? On behalf of all children, I hereby declare you politically incorrect, whine whine whine.
RE: P.S. Does this posting make you angry?
No.
RE: It doesn't bother you that someone tries to manipulate you by asserting that if you don't act in a certain way, you are less of a man?
Nope. When you grow up, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." And to properly answer that kind of asinine manipulation, you simply, like, address the issue.
RE: Do you not automatically consider acting in that certain way to prove to all our other posters that you are, in fact, a REAL man?
Nope. I'm actually secure in my masculinity, thanks, which is why I don't go into a hysterical crying fit when someone uses a perfectly acceptable expression appropriately.
RE: Admonishing a male to "act like a man" is a sexist manipulation, pure and simple, and no
No, it's an ageist one. Answer that one.
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RE: Admonishing a male to "act like a man" is a sexist manipulation, pure and simple, and no
No, it's an ageist one. Answer that one.
It would seem that you agree the phrase is 'manipulative' then.
Isn't manipulation bad?
just a thought expressed on the k/b by westcoast2
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @01:38PM EST (#29)
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RE: It would seem that you agree the phrase is 'manipulative' then.
Not really. I'd say that it's an apt saying. "Act like a man" is implying that men are honest, upstanding citizens that don't go around mowing down motorcycles while running stop signs, and then going around crying about everything from diabetes to his terrible childhood.
What I was suggesting with my little joke was that children have more to be offended by that statement, if you really wanted to get overcritical, hysterical and whiny about it.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 03, @11:28AM EST (#19)
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"RE: Admonishing a male to "act like a man" is a sexist manipulation, pure and simple, and no
No, it's an ageist one. Answer that one."
================================================== ===========
Anonymous clearly evades the damage done to men when he says "sticks and stones." He seems to think that if he just says his opinion forcefully enough he has answered the point(s) in contention, but he is wrong.
Anon’s attempt to inject "ageism" into the conversation is irrelevant as the term being used is "take it like a man" not "take it like a boy." I recall "take it like a man" often being used on boys as well, when growing up so the use and abuse of "take it like a man" clearly cuts across all male ages and speaks more to the responsibilities and expectations that go with "legal" male maturity, than any discrimination against men due to age.
The tone of Anon's replies seems to point out a need on the part of anon to belittle (to personally attack), and not just address the points in question. Perhaps anon could employ a good course in manners and thereby defray the need to further interject rude insults (put downs) into his retorts. Such pettiness really does, intellectually, take away from any cogent argument Anon is trying to make.
Furthermore saying, "take it like a man," to a man, when uttered by a woman is clearly emotional abuse. Women throughout time have been masters of this manipulation and have “pulled it” to get men to do all sorts of unimaginably horrible things, that they would not have done otherwise. Men have done these things and for what; Love, promise of sex (as opposed to the female with-holding sex), peace in the home (as opposed to endless female verbal attacks and worse if not complied with)? Other forms of manipulation have been employed by women as well to make sure that men comply, when they are ask “take it like a man.” Men pay a high price for living up to women's expectations of men. Anyone who thinks rebelling against the term "take it like a man" is being to over-sensitive really hasn't thought through the subtleties of abuse that go along with that phrase. I think that before any other man is ever required to take it like a man again (own up to personal responsibilities for one's own actions) we should just defer to the privileged sex and say, "Ladies first!"
Studies of disparities in sentencing between men and women (for the same crime) have shown that women get shorter sentences and lighter punishments.
Sincerely Ray
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @01:43PM EST (#30)
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RE: Anonymous clearly evades the damage done to men when he says "sticks and stones."
Oh pardon me, spare me your wounded ego. Is it that fragile?
RE: Anon’s attempt to inject "ageism" into the conversation is irrelevant as the term being used is "take it like a man" not "take it like a boy."
"act like a man" could be bent around and out of shape by someone hating "ageism" according to my joke.
RE: I recall "take it like a man" often being used on boys as well,
We're not talking about "TAKE IT LIKE A MAN" but "act like a man".
RE: male ages and speaks more to the responsibilities and expectations that go with "legal" male maturity, than any discrimination against men due to age.
So you're suggesting that suggesting someone act like a "man" is to request that he act maturely and responsibly? Oh, what a sexist insult. Call the militia.
RE: Perhaps anon could employ a good course in manners and thereby defray the need to further interject rude insults (put downs) into his retorts.
Maybe you need to take some Valium or something, and quit whining.
RE: Furthermore saying, "take it like a man," to a man, when uttered by a woman is clearly emotional abuse.
Maybe I suggest a course in reading (Hooked on Phonics?) for you because the issue at hand is NOT the statement "take it like a man."
RE: Women throughout time have been masters of this manipulation and have “pulled it” to get men to do all sorts of unimaginably horrible things, that they would not have done otherwise.
[load of WHINING deleted]
You're bleating on like the raving "Feminazi" who says she was "verbally raped". Get a grip, get a life, grow a pair, and stop whining.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 04, @01:52AM EST (#22)
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I've been on other messsage boards and I've read the posts by other men there that say when one man wants to do something proactive other men scoff and shout them down.
You know,I hate to admit this but maybe they're right. Dittohd is right and we should support him.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 04, @03:42AM EST (#23)
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"when one man wants to do something proactive other men scoff and shout them down."
=================================================
A lot of good has come from Mensactivism discussions, even the heated ones. The sometimes vociferous, outspoken rhetoric is all relative. Some of the guys are vituperative and have every right to be, given the fact that so many of them have been victims of outrageous systematic abuses by our legal systems and social institutions.
I have tried to be proactive as have most others. I've been posting here for a long time with a lot of people disagreeing with me. Some have tried to "shout me down" (most haven't), but it's not a big deal. If we disagree I still come back. Most people on this site are decent. Even if they are not, I try to address the substance of their comments. Some people on this site are very stubborn, very tenacious, but that's no big deal, just part of the territory.
Sometimes I find the stubbornness of others interesting, and sometimes I just find it frustrating. I think it's outrageous that people have the nerve to not agree with me all the time (not really - just kidding). They have every right to their viewpoint. I've learned a lot from people on this site, and find the spirited discussions enlightening and entertaining.
It's not like people are saying things to your face either. They're just saying them to your cyber face, and I've yet to hear of a single person who got punched through their computer screen so just relax when they "get to you," and just come back with something creative to say.
My ex-wife was one of the most abusive people I even knew in my life, and the worst insult I ever got on this site doesn't even begin to register on the meter compared to the abuse she used to physically and emotionally assault me with.
The bottom line is this, "I think the vast majority of people on this site just speak their minds as they honestly see things, and beyond that they are good and decent people who I respect."
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @08:43AM EST (#28)
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Ray, I thought a couple of other slogans for you...
Divorced Dads Are not Criminals
or
Divorced Dads (or Husbands) are not ATMs
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @02:40PM EST (#31)
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Alright, look.
The reason why I got on people's case about this is, there are very REAL instances where men get the SHAFT from society.
So bleating on about someone say "act like a man" is kind of a waste of time and energy. First off, she was technically complimenting manhood, and second of all, the people who jumped on the write-at-her bandwagon really are a bunch of hysterical whiners.
If someone's doing something positive, cool. But running around like a chicken with its head cut off, especially for no good reason, is counterproductive. And worse off, it really does make the budding men's movement to look like a bunch of whiners.
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That last paragraph in my submission which begins with "Whether you agree..." and ends with "...that is all." was not part of my submission.
Yeah, that's why I did it after the itilacics and paragraph break. I get tired of being a mute admin.
I really wish that if management wants to add their personal two cents, that they keep it separate and sign their OWN name to it.
It was seperate, hence the paragraph break and non-itilacics.
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Adam,
Do you really believe that without a separation and separate signature, all posters here knew that you and not I had written that last paragraph?
Give me a break!
I don't expect everyone to get it, just most.
Your comment should have been clearly annotated as separate in some clear way (changing the italics to non-italics alone doesn't cut it because as posters, we all have that capability in our postings) and then your name signed to it.
Maybe next time.
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Its Standard Operating Procedure for blogs to do it like that, and I thought it was pretty obvious. Ditto writes is in italics, followed by any notes by the admin posting it. As it states at the top of the story that it was posted by Adam, it's not to hard to deduce that he wrote in the plain text.
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 02, @05:59PM EST (#15)
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It's also standard for slashdot and many other sites that use the type of setup that mensactivism.org uses.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 03, @11:51AM EST (#20)
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Dittohd writes "Here is an editorial by Michelle Malkin detailing her choices for "Whiners of the Year". Note the segment on Rep. Bill Janklow. Below is the e-mail I sent to her at her address MMalkin@WorldNetDaily.com.
Dear Ms. Malkin,
In your article, you state, "Rep. Bill Janklow. The Republican congressman from South Dakota is still refusing to accept the consequences of his actions like a man." Does this mean that he is acting like a woman? Are all men the same? Do all men act in one particular way? Should they? Is "acting like a man" good? If so, should women act "like a man" also? Do you consider your comment to be sexist?
Sincerely, Dittohd Austin, Texas"
==================================================
Whether you agree with the morality of the case in question is not the issue here, the issue here is one of definition. Namely, that we must define ourselves, and not let others tell us what a "man/real man" is, as if they define us, they define our self worth, and our honour and dignity will be forever dependant on others, and we can't have that. So make an unyielding stand, and say "I am a man, and none shall say otherwise" that is all. "ed."
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 04, @08:12PM EST (#26)
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I've never written in italics before.
Thanks, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 06, @01:19AM EST (#33)
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Hey! What programing code did you add to make it do bold?
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 06, @10:06AM EST (#34)
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Yipee!!! I can do italics!! Anyway, happy new year to all in Mensactivism.
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