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I've recently added this to the Men's Hour Blog. See the picture there as well.
Is potty parity, potty or parity? (Are New Yorkers taking the p*ss? No!
They're giving the p*ss!)
New York debates doubling women's public toilets
New York's city council is debating a bill that would double the number
of public toilets for women to shorten washroom lineups
The bill -- the "Restroom Equity Bill of New York" -- cites research that
shows it often takes women twice as long to use the washroom as it does men.
But at present, they get the same number of toilets, a situation it
describes as "one of the most blatant, demeaning and visible forms of gender
discrimination in our society."
Right! Men dying in wars, workplace accidents and suicides is nothing, but a
woman has to wait in a queue? Why would you need any more evidence of a
completely systematic and pervasive sexist bias.
Against men.
"In most stadiums, they have an equal amount of women's rooms and an
equal amount of men's rooms," said Yvette Clarke, the Democratic council
member from Brooklyn who is sponsoring the bill."
"Inevitably, there are always going to be women's lines while the men's
rooms are pretty much vacant. We're saying, based on that ratio, let us
convert some of those men's rooms to women's use, so women don't have put on
their shades and run into the men's room when the line is too long for you."
An expert in "potty parity" hailed the bill as a major step forward. !Once
women realize this is not inevitable or a biologically preordained
situation, we can do something about it," said John Banzhaf, a public
interest law professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
He has written an article for a national legal publication suggesting a lack
of adequate washroom facilities for women is a denial of their rights under
the U.S. Constitution.
"Waiting in line may not sound very important, but surveys are indicating
that many women are not going out to places, or not going out as frequently
as they did, because they don't want to face those long lines," Prof.Banzhaf
said
Washroom parity legislation is in force in at least 12 states and a handful
of U.S. cities.
In POTTY PARITY,
RESTROOM EQUITY, SQUATTERS RIGHTS in "FINAL FRONTIER FOR THE LAW?"
Professor Banzhaf writes
A controversial topic raises interesting issues of whether equal
protection and fairness require equal space, equal access, equal facilities,
equal opportunity or, sometimes, equality of results.
For more than 20 years we have recognized that, with respect to race, it is
unconstitutional to have restrooms that are separate but equal. On the other
hand, with regard to the two sexes, the universal norm is restrooms that are
separate and equal. But, in this context, what does "equal" mean?
Can women truly be said to be liberated when they often stand on
interminable lines at the theater, concerts, some restaurants, and in other
public places to perform a necessary and often compelling biological
function that men usually accomplish with virtually no wait? Does this
problem, which certainly can be corrected by adding additional toilet
facilities, amount to unfair discrimination?
This implies that men should sit down. Doesn't this "oppress" men.
No! Men standing up "oppresses" women. At Townhall.com Men must stand up Walter E. Williams writes women in Sweden,
Germany and Australia have launched a new cause: They want men to sit down
while urinating. Part of their demand is related to the "splash factor," but
more crucially, men standing up to urinate is deemed by these women as
triumphing in their masculinity, "a nasty macho gesture" and by extension
degrading to women. Feminists at Stockholm University are campaigning to ban
campus urinals and one Swedish elementary school has already removed
urinals. I don't know about you, but if I don't tell women to stand up to
urinate, they're not going to tell me to sit down to urinate.
From the same article - Young boys aren't spared from the feminist
attack. At a Boston area elementary school, nobody objected when girls wore
shirts emblazoned with "Girls Rule" or when they taunted boys with a chant
that goes, "Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider; girls go to college to
get more knowledge." But when boys donned shirts emblazoned with "Boys Are
Good," there was protest. One of the teachers protesting sported a button
saying, "So
many men, so little intelligence."
From Yoursay
SYDNEY, Australia- Young women in Australia and Sweden have a new cause:
They want men to sit down while urinating. This demand comes partly from
hygene concerns - avoiding the splash factor-but as reported in The
Spectator magazine, "more
crucially because a man standing up to urinate is deemed to be triumphing in
his masculinity, and by extension, degrading women". Frieda Nightanvil of
Women Arise Australia is gathering pledges from young men to abstain from
urinal use and recommends they pour fast drying cement in to urinals around
Sydney during the Olympics.
"We are hoping this will draw the attention of the world's media to this
ongoing fascist symbol of subjugation. This will be the last generation of
males who will employ such tactics of oppression as the urinal. But it will
be a struggle with the Cave Man mentality that even today is the mindset of
too many Australian males"
Stockholm University is about to ban urinals on campus, and one Swedish
elementary school has already removed them. Some Swedish women are
pressuring their men to take a stand, so to speak. Yola, a 25-year old
Swedish trainee psychiatrist, says she dumps boyfriends who insist on
standing. "What can I do?" said her new boyfriend, Ingvar, who sits.
You might think this means that women are fundamentally opposed to any
urinating whilst standing up. That it is a political act or oppressive.
Don't be silly. Quicker than you can say "double standards". It is purely a
matter of convenience, you might say, when they are doing it.
What's the deal
with urinals in women's restrooms?
Most major American manufacturers discontinued women's urinals for
various reasons decades ago. They were introduced into this country from
Europe in the early 30s (along with the bidet, which is still being made),
and were intended as a convenience for women who did not want their delicate
flesh coming into contact with yukky public toilet seats.
Basically the urinals featured a protruding narrow bowl that the user was
expected to straddle while facing the wall, having first lowered her panties
and hiked
up her skirt, whereupon she could do her thing. I'm not getting a good
picture in my mind of how this was supposed to work, and frankly I don't
think I want
to. Women apparently had the same problem, because the popularity of the
fixtures declined significantly in the 60s, resulting in their ultimate
demise
However at restrooms.org there is still advice for the woman
Woman's Guide on how to Pee
Standing Up
When the original Woman's Guide on How to Pee Standing was first created
in 1997, we only had the "finger-assist" method, listed halfway down this
page. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. We've had over
three million visitors to the Guide, and thousands of women from all walks
of life, from doctors to forest firefighters, to policewomen have sent us
encouraging e-mail, sharing their mostly positive thoughts on this very
personal topic.
Diane: I'm starting to think women have been kept in the dark about this for
a reason. Maybe Oliver Stone will do a movie...
I'm sure she's joking. I think....
Janice: Its much more exciting and daring to pee standing up at urinals.
Emily: I also developed a method which enables me to pee through the open
zip of my jeans as conveniently as a man.
Gabrielle: When I start to pee, I push hard to start a strong stream, and
push again at the end to keep the stream up until I'm done. I find that I
have good control over where the stream goes, and it's a pretty clean
process.
So there you have it. We have to have equal outcomes for women. The day I
even hear someone advocate in public equal outcomes for men, I will break
open a bottle of champagne (and I don't really like champagne). We could
insist that they use urinals which apparently they can do, but that would
"oppress" them. Men and boys can be forced to sit down, and
there's a potential health impact on the prostrate, but that doesn't oppress
them. Even if you stand up in private it is "asserting your
masculinity" and therefore "oppressing" women.
There's only one solution, apart from telling them to stick it in their
urinal, we have to have equal outcomes for men. Any biological feature that
is worse for men than women requires extra facilities and effort to make
sure we have an equal outcome. Therefore based on everything I've heard
about both the quantity and quality for women, I hereby demand that women
accommodate equal outcome for men in this matter, and that there is
legislation to get it. In short, I demand an Orgasm Equity Bill.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 07, @08:19PM EST (#2)
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It's plain crazy is that all thats left have we lost everything?
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 07, @08:42PM EST (#3)
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I constantly see men's restrooms with far less privacy than women's restrooms. Often when the door opens you can see the urinal very easily, and the sink, sometimes even the toilet, while the women's restroom is totally private from the outside. I also see the men's room having no mirrors and find out from a female companion that the women's room has one. Other times its no doors on the toilets. Will New York address these inequities too?
Marc
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 07, @09:01PM EST (#5)
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All my years in middle school through high school there were bathrooms with no doors going into the bathroom. On top of that there were no doors on the stalls. The girls had both.
p george
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 07, @09:35PM EST (#6)
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Yep. At Eagle Rock Elementary School in Los Angeles, the boys' room had zero doors on the stalls and the girls' room had a door on every stall. I remember even in 3rd grade thinking how unfair that was but that if any male complained he'd be seen as whining.
I guess some parents may have complained, or something, because eventually they put *one* door on *one* stall (out of about 15) in the boys' room. It's like, "there, boys, you have one door, now what more do you want???"
Marc
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Locker rooms too dude. in most of the places i've been as a high school and college athlete, the womens locker rooms have been more carefully attended to and have more privacy in the showers (sometimes even individual showers), however mens locker rooms only smell like sweat and mud and such, when womens locker rooms smell like ... well you guys know.
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My favorite was in NYC and DC when there was construction on the restrooms in two huge public transportaion stations. At the ferry there was construction on the men's bathroom, so the men had to use a port-o-potty in a trailer outside. In January. Same situation in DC, only it gets better, the women's bathroom was under construction, so they told women to use the men's bathroom and men had to, once again, use a port-o-potty outside. Same time of year.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 07, @08:56PM EST (#4)
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So all these years I've been pissing, I've been triumphing in my masculinity!
These people are the fascists. What would they be thinking if men started trying to control in what ways they piss?
P George
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 07, @11:26PM EST (#9)
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I work at a college in CA, where there is a lot of new construction, and I can tell you that there are as many commodes being installed in new women's restrooms as there are commodes and urinals being installed in men's restrooms.
Now that this has come up, I'm going to check and see how many of each is there. I suppose this could be a potential Title IX lawsuit against a college. If the percentage of commodes does not match the percentage of female students enrolled then under Title IX a lawsuit could be filed. Wait a minute, in this story from New York, they are saying due to different physiology they want a higher percentage of commodes per person for women than men. Isn’t that asking for special privileges based on gender?
In women's studies courses on college campuses they teach that gender is just “socially constructed.” Why all of a sudden are we now saying that there are physiological differences between men and women that require women to have special privileges? Doesn't that defy what women's studies teaches about gender being socially constructed?
Is there a women’s studies professor out there who can give rational answers to all of these questions?
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday December 09, @11:54AM EST (#22)
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Didn't ya know, Ray?
It's just different...
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by Anonymous User on Thursday December 11, @09:10PM EST (#24)
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Raymond:
I read your almost definitive post on Mensactivism, and found this part most interesting:
“Men standing up "oppresses" women. At Townhall.com Men must stand up Walter E. Williams writes women in Sweden, Germany and Australia have launched a new cause: They want men to sit down while urinating. Part of their demand is related to the "splash factor," but more crucially, men standing up to urinate is deemed by these women as triumphing in their masculinity, "a nasty macho gesture" and by extension degrading to women. Feminists at Stockholm University are campaigning to ban campus urinals and one Swedish elementary school has already removed urinals. I don't know about you, but if I don't tell women to stand up to urinate, they're not going to tell me to sit down to urinate. “
I thought you would find it interesting to know that we installed our 1st water free urinals at work today. I think instead of referring to our male urination habits as “a nasty macho gesture,” we will now have to refer to them as environmentally, socially, and species “enlightened” urinating habits. When we were investigating this technology I asked the company representative if there were any female urinals available. He said, We’re working on it.”
In arid climates like Australia, Southwestern United States, Middle East, Africa, etc. it appears that the feminist propaganda concerning bathroom habits of the sexes will be forced to face the hard reality of water conservation.
I think the only question we have now is, “When will women evolve to the superior ecological way of urinating, and stop “degrading” the environment, or are they so entrenched in their potty prejudice that we will have to toilet retrain them to stand?”
Here is the web site for a brand of waterless urinals.
http://www.jmgwaterfree.com/
Sincerely, Ray
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I recall something where the Piss Police were trying to make sure men had to sit to pee. Now if that isn't something else...
You know, I'm just going to be my usual, blunt, offensive self. Frankly, if women wouldn't fuck around in the goddamn john, and do like men do - go in, attend to business, and get out - their lines would be a lot fucking shorter.
More stalls is going to mean bigger or more bathrooms, and it's going to wind up with more fucking women putting on their makeup, and gossiping, and tying up the lines in one john than before. It's not going to change one thing. I worked at a nightclub, and I shit you all not, 15 - yeah, fifteen fucking stalls in three bathrooms for women. 3 urinals and one stool for men. I never had to wait in the line to take a leak, but there wasn't fuck one night where the women weren't lined up. And you can't tell me that a miniskirt and a thong is that much of a fucking problem to lift and drop to whiz. No - it's from fucking around and socializing in the crapper, when it's not designed to be a social club.
Another thing too - women are fucking slobs. Men's room had to be mopped daily. Women's room? Unfluched toilets, broken porcelain, women crapping in the TANKS, trying to flush tampons is bad enough, but trying to flush MAXI-PADS?
Christ in a bucket.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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by Anonymous User on Monday December 08, @12:07AM EST (#10)
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"I recall something where the Piss Police were trying to make sure men had to sit to pee."
I recall them forcing the removal of urinals on Navy ships, unless I'm mistaken.
Oh my, crapping in the tanks!?!
Marc
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of course they crap the tanks, what do you expect to happen when half the population is essentially lawless
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I have no idea what Gonzo looks like but somehow I have this mental picture of him after the club closes in a ladies room with a mop and bucket yelling poetic masterpieces that will later be posted on this board.
Keep it up bro! You are a role model . . .
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OK, as one of the only women posters here, I have the most authority on this issue.
~I have been wanting to say that!~
Women , as Gonzo said, take too damn long in the bathroom! It just amazes me, when I am in a hurry, how long women can sit in that stall. What are they doing in there?!I go in, do my thing, and am out in the same amount of time it takes my husband. Even on the rare occasion I have a skirt and stockings on. Badda bing badda boom. What women do in the lou is not more gentle or time consuming..even during that time of the month it should only take a minute at the most. Now the whole hair and makeup thing is misleading, as you do not need stalls to do that. It is whatever they do IN the stalls. Perhaps these women need a battery check at the door? ;-)
I think that we should use this as a huge place to make a stink. During sports games, there has to be a much larger male population than women, yet women need more stalls? Perhaps there should be a time limit, when your time is up your door swings open and you have to pay another 50 cents?
This pisses me off. I am a woman, yet I have to be lumped in with these pathetic whiners. Nevermind that there are people out there that have no food, no winter clothing, that we are fighting a war, no, we need more bathroms. And women wonder why men think they are shit for brains.
Oh no....starting to sound like Gonzo...help..
the Biscuit Queen
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jenk writes:
"I think that we should use this as a huge place to make a stink."
ROFLMAO -- I can think of no possible more appropriate comment on this whole subject. (keep reading the subject line and then jen's comment until the humor strikes you.)
And women wonder why men think they are shit for brains.
(is THAT why they take so long in the bathroom?)
I wouldn't exactly call the "male" who bills himself as "the father of potty-parity" to have much to offer in the smarts department either. I'm glad to see you so pissed off about the whole subject, jen. (the double meanings just keep on coming...) I've been saying for a long time that making such huge issues out of the monstrously trivial would backfire on women. I really don't take wimmins's concerns seriously any more - because this kind of nonsense seems to be mostly what they are concerned about.
The aspect of it that I would like to see men focus on is the way that "equity" for women has been redefined as "twice a much as men have." Think of that the next time you hear a woman say "wimmins still have a long way to go". In every aspect of life, from "glass ceilings" to Title IX, women have defined themselves as needing special accomodations to their inherent physical and psychological characteristics in order to be able to be "equal" to men, and wonder why men typically regard them as beings of lesser abilities.
The preponderance of men in the work force, AND their generally higher wages, is due entirely to the fact that men tend to change their behavior to adapt to the situation, where women demand that the situation change to adapt to their behavior. If a work crew of 100 women needs twice as many porta-potties to be able to do a job than a crew of 100 men would need, the cost of those extra potties has to be made up by the employer somehow in order to remain profitable - the wages of the potty-ers, for example.
I would love to see women "raising a stink" about this - simply to prove that there are a few women out there who don't think with their bowels and other bodily functions, and will keep demanding special privileges without end until men as a group say "STOP! ENOUGH!" to the entire female sex.
Me? I'm still flexible. I'll go take a leak behind the dumpster.
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by Anonymous User on Monday December 08, @04:16PM EST (#15)
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"Me? I'm still flexible. I'll go take a leak behind the dumpster."
Just be careful not to splash the homeless.
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*helpless laughter subsides* *wipes tears away from eyes*
If women's main problem is taking too long because of make-up, hair, etc. wouldn't this be allivated by banishing mirrors instead of adding stalls? I've heard solutions offered that we just convert the large bathrooms with many stalls, basically communal ones into microscopic individual ones, like on airplanes. This prevents the gossip factor - delete the mirrors too, and I wonder how much longer women would take in there. Maybe I'll go observe on an airplane sometime: "can I sit next to the bathrooms, please?"
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But then the fat groups will be suing for discrimination!
Glad to see that other women think the same way!
The Biscuit Queen
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Oh no....starting to sound like Gonzo...help..
>BEG Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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"We're saying, based on that ratio, let us convert some of those men's rooms to women's use, so women don't have put on their shades and run into the men's room when the line is too long for you."
Well, at least women have the OPTION to do this. If the male washroom was full, a man CANNOT run in and use the ladies room. If he did he would be berated as a "pervert", a "creep" and other nasty names. He could be charged with sexual harrassment and probably sexual assault.
Give me a break.
R
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I have conducted an extensive research program to examine this problem, though I may have to apply for grants from the NSF, NIH, CDC, WHO, and a few other agencies to complete my work. The following will reveal to you the subtle, though breathtaking, insights of my scientific breakthrough.
I stood before my toilet and checked the second hand on my watch. (NOTE: As I said, this was extensive research. I did this two times!) For me to pull down my zipper, dig through my pants and underpants, remove the little emperor, return that staff of life to his polite-company-hiding-place, and pull my zipper up, took four (4) seconds. (Please be aware I went at a steady but unrushed pace through all of this research.)
After leaving the bathroom, I again checked the second hand on my watch. For me to walk in and shut the door, step to the toilet, drop trough and sit, stand, tuck my shirt into my pants, pull up my zipper and secure my belt, and leave the room, took fourteen (14) seconds.
Now, to the best of my knowledge, women's muscles are much stronger than men's in the nether regions, to accommodate for gestating and bearing children, and they can pee much faster than men. (I offer as, admittedly circumstantial, evidence the fact that my wife, on average, gets into and out of the women's room faster than I enter the men's room, take care of business, and depart.) Leaving this as a second order correction, we have the fact (I repeat, for the sake of emphasis, determined by extensive research) that, for a pee, it takes a woman ten (10) seconds longer than a man to present an opening statement, detail one's case, and end with closing arguments. (We'll assume the ol' number two [2] takes men and women the same amount of time.)
So, if it takes about thirty (30) seconds for a man or a woman to actually pee, and an additional 45 seconds for a man or a woman to wash and dry his or her hands, the total time it takes for a woman to go to the washroom and pee is 89 seconds and the total time it takes for a man to do the same is 79 seconds. In other words, it takes a man eleven percent (11%) less time than a woman to take care of this business and a woman thirteen percent (13%) longer than a man. Since some of the people using the restroom are attending to our friend number two (2), we have a difference in the time required to use a restroom of approximately ten percent (10%).
I've got no problem with women having 11 stalls for every 10 stalls and urinals that men have, provided there's a reasonable balance of stalls and urinals in the men's rooms, but the women and femboys behind this proposal are just pushing for more special, undeserved and unneeded, privileged treatment for females.
-- Female supremacists are idiots. Throw laughter at them.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday December 10, @11:34AM EST (#23)
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...we'll just make the men's bathrooms twice as big!
...of course, I bet establishments who did that might get sued for "unfairness".
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