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All of .9 mill? The 5 person electricity retailer that I work for (with all of 1000 clients) reduced our accounts receivable by that much in the last quarter.
If they're trumpeting "successes" like this, they must _really_ be scraping the bottom of the rhetorical barrel.
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I cannot post to the above thread so i will do it here.
Steve, that is an excellent pamphlet. I have been looking for a way to introduce people to the issues when they ask, or more often look at me like I had three heads, without getting preachy, and this is an excellent way to do it. Great job.
I also will take this little off topic space to say something else. As a woman trying to stand up for men's rights, I find I am really close to alienating my women friends. Now I realize that I get really passionate about things and can go on and on, but I have really gone out of my way to not talk about things with my friends, knowing they really don't agree with me nor care. However, my position on this seeps into every aspect of my life, from parenting to marraige to what I find entertaining. I just cannot laugh with my friends, or talk about many things because they just aren't funny anymore. I actually got in a 'fight' with my closest friend because she called me "paraniod that everything is a conspiracy." I was just talking about my son's Halloween parade and the rules, and how they only affected one sex. I sent her a link to the pamphlet so she can see for herself, as she was saying she wanted to look up stuff before we talk again about it.
It has been hard to keep things in the same persective because there is a "conspiracy", it is just no one realizes they are full participants. The conspiracy is the status quo, and these women are too threatened to look at it because they stand to lose a lot of power.
I can understand why people burn out, not that I am at that point yet, but it can be very alienating to believe in something different.
I guess I just want everyone here to know that I am very glad to have this board, and that I know I am not crazy when I come here and talk to you all ~and not cause you are even crazier!;-) It helps having others to keep the ball rolling and keep from feeling overwhelmed.
Well, enough of the whole touchy feely stuff, sometimes the ol' estrogen kicks in.
The Biscuit Queen
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Yo, BQ. Thanks for yet another terrific post. (I'm not sure why you can't post to the other thread.)
Steve's brochure is, indeed, excellent and should be useful to many of us.
As a woman trying to stand up for men's rights, I find I am really close to alienating my women friends.
I'll bet you are.
they really don't agree with me nor care.
I don't doubt it for a femtosecond. The screwy thing to me is how much I encounter the same from men. (Until the feminist juggernaut damages their lives, of course. Then they wonder why no one is coming to their aid.)
It has been hard to keep things in the same persective because there is a "conspiracy"
There sure is. So many people claim there are conspiracies, when and where they don't exist, that one can sound like a nutcase by pointing it out when one does exist. So it goes. There's no getting around the fact that mainstream feminism is a conspiracy of hatred against men and boys. (I looked up the definition of "conspiracy" in my Merriam-Webster. There was definition 1 and definition 2, with 2 divided into A and B. It wasn't very helpful, because each definition contained a form of the word "conspiracy." I think it's a conspiracy :).)
these women are too threatened to look at it because they stand to lose a lot of power.
And men often won't look at it because they are afraid to challenge those with so much more power than themselves.
I can understand why people burn out, not that I am at that point yet, but it can be very alienating to believe in something different.
Brace yourself. You may find that you are never able to drop it, no matter how worn down you become at times. You may find yourself unable to sit by in silence, while hateful lies and oppression are spread against a group of people who don't deserve it.
I just want everyone here to know that I am very glad to have this board
It's great to have you here.
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Jen,
I want to say a couple of things to you. First off I know how you feel about being burnt out in some ways. I got into the men's movement after what happened to me (you already know) and after about 6 months I got burned out and left. It's not unusual. First off, the charges against me were gone and I was trying to let go. I didn't want to be consumed with bitterness and anger that was creeping into many parts of my life. I left the movement for about 1-2 years. But as I read more and more horsesh*t in the news I couldn't stand it anymore. If you need to take a break, do so. I for one value your help. I really do. Am I your "best buddy"? Do we go fishing (I don't anyways, lol)? Are we lifelong "buddies"? No, to all of it, but you are a woman who is so supportive and understanding and maybe you just need to hear that. (sniff sniff, anyone got a tissue, can I have a hug). But seriously, you are appreciated.
I know how you feel, and many can relate to what I am about to say: most people who are living in the US are unaware of the injustice. **WE** all know why: it's not covered by the media, the laws don't much recognize it, our culture downplays it, and all of the rest. Your friends are not "connecting" to you because of:
1) they are immune to the punishments that they see men getting
2) they have been indoctrinated with the Feminazi propaganda lies machine for years (you're basically telling them that several "BASIC TRUTHS" that they live with are garbage
3) used or not, the power that they would have to surrender is not power they want to give up
4) women today are conditioned to believe and then rewarded for using self-justification and moral-reletivism. Anything can be explained away. And even someone who knows better gets in trouble and the self-preservation instinct kicks in: if you can stay out of jail by claiming to be a victim, you stay out of jail.
Don't get burned out. Stay away for a few days, and like me, you will be EAGER to come back here and read and post. And when dealing with people who have been indoctrinated, go slow, help them empathize, and give them time to think. My dad gave me an excellent example once: its from the Bible. In the story Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees and he says: "even whores and thieves will be in heaven before you". My dad then said the phrase in a righteous and angry way and then he said it looking in my eyes with empathy and sorrow. I got the point. The first way makes peoples "shields" go up and they close the door to their minds. The second way MAY make them think.
Jen sweetie, you are valued here. Why do you think when I heard you saying how frustrated you were that I wrote this post. I wrote it for you. =)
Peace be upon your house and in your heart.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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With all this emphasis on collecting child support, for the good of the children of course, why isn't there a similar system to account for where and how the collected monies are spent? I know this is probably a rhetorical question but men (mostly the paying NCP) should not be held under a Damocletian sword about paying support when the custodial parent (95% of the time the mother)can spend the money on her beer, cigarettes, hairdos, etc., without any consequences incurred. Makes one wonder why we (men mostly) are fighting tyranny in Iraq when there is plenty of tyranny enshrined in the corrupt family courts right here at home!
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I agree with the above poster. I have heard and arugued this myself on many occasions. People who claim "best interest of the child" should be stuck with that. That's not said very well, so maybe I should explain.
Once a parent invokes "best interests of the child" there should be set and specific guidelines on how they may conduct their affairs in relation to the child. If a mother says that since she got temporary custody and moving the child to the father would be "disruptive" to the child, the logical extension of that is that move-away-moms should either STAY PUT or give up custody. Why? BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD!!!!!
Now on child support here is my position. 10% of the money can be a "slush" fund. The rest is accounted for in receipts and in the use of the money the NCP has some input.
"Should mom have to write a check each time she buys a happy meal!?" No, that is what the 10% slush fund is for. Also, DAD is not the only one SUPPORTING the CHILD. MOM is supposed to be a contributor to the child's welfare. If dad's money is used to buy the clothes, pay for the school, etc etc then MOM can pay for the little things. The really ignorant thing is how divorced moms think that DAD should pay for RENT. Sorry cupcake that is what 1/2 the divorce settlement and ALIMONY is for. If it's a single mom, get a J-O-B. Your uterous is not a slot machine hitting triple 7's that drops money from a slot. CHILD SUPPORT is for the CHILD. Not for mom to buy a dress for work, get a car, or any other thing. And the idea that using child support money for cars, business suits, and such is wrong in 2 ways:
1) why shouldn't DAD get that money, so he can get a better job and look professional at work
2) put the money into an untouchable trust for the child's education. UNTOUCHABLE period.
And I will tell you WHY this idea will be fought tooth and nail. Most moms, even the good ones, DO spend money on the children, but whatever is left over (hey, its "not much anyways" - self-justification) is spent on whatever mom sees fit. And once there IS accountability it's going to be as obvious as a pile of coal on a ballroom floor that the amount women ask for is excessive. The "extra" left over may not seem like so much, but maybe if its "not that much" the mom should give it back to the dad or put it into a college fund. An UNTOUCHABLE fund.
It's one thing that today's women are afraid of: Accountability.
Hope this added to the discussion
Peace
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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"Should mom have to write a check each time she buys a happy meal!?" No, that is what the 10% slush fund is for.""
It would be better to have the CP issued a debit card by the Child Support Enforcement Agency. The child support money can be sent to an account rather than mailed to the CP. Each expenditure will be instantly debited to the account and can be monitored by the NCP either by a monthly statement or accessed on the internet 24/7. I have 3 credit cards that I monitor on the internet so I know this system is feasible and is NOT outrageously expensive to do as some nincompoops would argue.
But of course I am assuming the child support enforcers are genuinely concerned about the "best interests of the child or children" and not in feathering their own political nests.
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I had a friend, I say 'had' because this was one friendship that didn't make the cut of men's issues, who just got divorced. Her husband moved the family to Japan for business then started having affairs. She moved back to the US and started divorce proceedings. She feels entitled to 1/2 his paycheck, past, present and future. She even wants him to claim his living expenses, which his company pays for the increased cost of living in Japan, because she feels this is income which should be divided. She went out and bought the most expensive brand new SUV she could find on purpose, she bought a new wardrobe, computer, redecorated her new house, and has a very hefty savings account all on his dime. She worked through the marraige, (I was her day care provider)so her carreer was not stunted much by the marraige.
He is a scum and he should pay for it has been her attitude. She is all victim. Now I am sorry, those kids do not need $3000 a month in child support, but that is what they get. And then she complains because once they are officially divorced it may go down to $2000/month. She also puts him down in front of the kids, says the most rediculous things like "mommy has toys because daddy left and doesn't make mommy feel good anymore." (I thought I might just drop a load right there when I heard that one!)
She was floored when I suggested that it was his money, that they were divorced and when that happened he stopped owing her anything. She was also floored when I suggested that buying a new truck wasn't really appropriate use of CS. Needless to say, we haven't talked much since then.
I will have to post an e-mail I got on a new way of figuring out child support. I like it a lot. I will go find it and post it next.
Jen
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This is an excellent letter by Chris Frostic, @ choice4men in reply to this article.
What the article does not say is that the reason that the State of Michigan is owed so much is that courts are setting Child Support Payments using a system that is based on "income" rather than using a cost basis to set childsupport orders.
The reason I put "Income" in brackets is that the state is able to impute a non-custodial parents income based upon what the Friend of the court case worker believes that the individual is "able" to make instead of actual tax returns and other tangible proof of actual income.
Very rarely does a child support order get reduced when a non-custodial parent gets injured, loses their job, or has other misfortune happen to them.
Every two years the State can do a re-evaluation and raise the support. Support payments typically range from 40 to 50 percent of an individuals income.
There is little or no credit for time spent parenting and if there is a warrant out or you are in arrears there is always the fear that if you attempt to contact your children that you will be arrested because of that arrearage.
Our current system alienates non-custodial parents and takes (typically fathers) away from their children.
Why is the State Foster Care System allowed to use a system that is cost based to calculate what they pay for foster care and private individuals are burdened by a system that is based on Income?
Here are some links to references:
http://www.frostic.com/erroneous.htm
http://www.lc4m.com
Current State of Michigan Foster care rates:
http://www.mfia.state.mi.us/olmweb/ex/cff/905-3.pd f
As you can see the State of Michigan typically pays $18.00 per day for their "Child support" to the Foster Parents which is the full amount they deem necessary to take care of each child.
In a Custody case each parent is assumed to pay 1/2 of what it takes to care for the children.
1/2 of $18.00 (For a non-custodial parent who participates in parenting 0% of the time) would be $9.00 per day for each child.
Why then do non-custodial parents pay based on their income?
It is really in the best interest of the child to improvish and criminalize the non-custodial parent of that child?
Should Necessary child support create a generation of women who know that all they need to do is get pregnant by the man who makes the most money to get 18 years of subsidized living?
What will your Sons do if they get mixed up with a preditory female?
There is a serious need for reform in Child Support and Family Law in this Country and State.
These are the points that need attention:
1) Men should have the same post-conception right to accept or reject fatherhood that women do.
2) In family law matters default judgment should be Joint Legal and Physical custody with no money changing hands.
3) In Cases where Child Support is necessary there should be a cap of 1/2 of what the state pays for foster care.
These changes would result in removing the incentive for paternity fraud that is currently built into the system, and encourage and
enable non-custodial parents to take an active part in the raising of their children instead of just being a "walking wallet" for the custodial parent.
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