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I apologize now in that I didn't have the time to read the articles yet (I will later today, and hence, may modify my position), but the following sounds to me like bullshit:
"Most fathers felt that the mother's work was beneficial and facilitated family life. "
I didn't really get a vote on my wife's choice to work. I suppose I could have forced my position on her, but that would have had other ramifications. Most of the men I know whose wives work would have rather had someone at home at all times when the kids were around.
Somehow this sounds to me like the author has an agenda.
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The first article seems legit at first glance, and IMO the negatives of staying on welfare for a family might overcome the negatives of no parent at home with the kids... although I'd have to look through their biblio. and methods before I trusted it.
The second... well... that one is much more likely to be agenda driven IMO.
"Caring and counting: The impact of mothers’ employment on family relationships by Tracey Reynolds, Claire Callender and Rosalind Edwards"
A report on the impact of working mothers on families... likely written by three working mothers, and it concluded that working mothers are great for families... WOW THAT'S A SURPRISE! Now I wouldn't say it's guaranteed biased, but I'd have to very carefully scrutinize their methods before I'd give them an ounce of credibility.
If I get some time I'll dig into the second report and see what there is to see.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday November 04, @11:56AM EST (#3)
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I do some cognitive research myself (using neuroimaging mostly) so I know how easy it is to "cook the books" so as to get the politically correct "desired" result from the data when only subjective self-report measures are used. It's a lot harder to do, of course, with "hard" data such as that gathered from neuroimaging techniques, and the inconvenient evidence of such things as "hard-wired" sex differences will, in the future, become more and more difficult to ignore.
Anyway, this report isn't worth the paper it's written on. What also can't be ignored is the correlation of working mothers with divorce (of course there are plenty of studies "proving" no adverse effect of divorce on children).
Vince S.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday November 04, @11:11PM EST (#4)
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When will someone consider whether mothers' working outside the home reflects a couple's choice to allow the father not to work outside the home?
News alert: men are good for more than just being wage slaves.
News alert: men can care for children as well as women can.
News alert: men deserve the choice to work or stay at home with their children as much as women do.
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Exactly.
Couples should talk this over way before having children. Even then there may be unforseen circumstances that will influence the decision for one or both spouses to work, such as financial needs.
IMO couples make these decisions together. And just like all decisions in a family, there are often competing interests. That's life. Any decision between two people takes cooperation and teamwork. There is no pat answer.
And nowhere is it written that there is only one way to organize and run a family. If it is important to the couple that one parent stay home with young kids, then sit down and logically decide who that will be. It doesn't have to be the mother. Or they can trade off, with one staying home when the kids are young and the other later when they are a little older.
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If it only were so simple. Men who stay at home face ridicule from and judgement from the general population. I have talked with a stay-at-home dad and none of his nieghbors or his wife's co-workers had any respect for the 'lazy freeloader'. He was doing a fine job at parenting, but that did not matter. Also, most women marry men who make more than they do, it just isn't possible for many men to financially stay at home, and doesn't make sense for the lower wage earner to support the family.
Women cling fiercly to the idea they are the better parent. I think when more men decide to stay at home, there may be some resulting changes in divorce rates since women could not play the automatic best parent card.
As a day care provider for 8 years, I KNOW that working effect the kids. This article is bullshit. Kids who get dumped for 10 hours a day usually do not feel very wanted by their parents. Especially when you look at a parent spends 10-15 hours /week with the kids, the sitter 40-50 hours a week. You think weekends will make up for that? Not for most parents. I know ONE family that both parents work and the kids are very well adjusted. One. They spend every second of their weekends with their kids, which is rare. Kids need their parents, and I think this whole both parents working is like saying that abortion is in the best interest of the child.
I will say that kids who are poor seem to have a better understanding that their parents HAVE to both work, where as well off kids see that their parents CHOOSE to work. What are you saying to your kids? Work is more important than you, and money is more important than you, when parents could get by with one income but don't.
Well, off my soap box. I don't know how much this is about men's rights, more the down side to feminism. Keep in mind this is only MHO.
The Biscuit Queen
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Men who stay at home face ridicule from and judgement from the general population. I have talked with a stay-at-home dad and none of his nieghbors or his wife's co-workers had any respect for the 'lazy freeloader'. He was doing a fine job at parenting, but that did not matter.
So? That was the two people's arrangement. There is no gaurantee in life that people will like what you do. "People" can look down on any number of things. Big deal. Some people look down on garbage collectors .... so what? It's an honest job.
Also, most women marry men who make more than they do, it just isn't possible for many men to financially stay at home, and doesn't make sense for the lower wage earner to support the family.
So? That's their (the two parents') choice. They could decide the other way if they wanted. Also, men could marry a woman with the understanding that he wants to stay home with the kids, just as many women make their intentions about work/family known in advance. That's why I said people should talk about all these things BEFORE they get married and certainly before they have kids.
Women cling fiercly to the idea they are the better parent.
That's true. But it's not just women who "cling fiercely" to that idea. Most men believe that too, at least when talking about babies and young children. Ask them. Traditionalist men are adamant that the woman has to be the hand-on caretaker. So this view is heavily culturally reinforced. Both men and women buy into it.
Again, nothing is forcing people, no law, from making different arrangements within their own families.
I think when more men decide to stay at home, there may be some resulting changes in divorce rates since women could not play the automatic best parent card.
They shouldn't be allowed to play that card now. We should go to a system of rebuttal presumption of joint physical custody in this country. That is ... either parent would have to specifically petition a court to NOT have legal custody. Ask your friends how many support that?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 06, @04:53PM EST (#7)
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As a 20 year old person of female persuasion, I'm kind of torn. I want kids. And, wanting kids, i want to stay home with them. The only reasons I wouldn't are:
1) Financial. If I need to work, I need to work.
2) Expectations. Nowadays more and more men not only assume you want to keep working, they're urprised and mystified if you say otherwise. Of all things, women have the strongest reaction against it! I have been questioned on whether I want to be some glorified maid, raising his kids, while he goes out hand has fun.
Somehow, now the perfect woman has not only 2.5 kids and a house to clean and a marriage, but a full time job.
Something has to give. Usually, it's the cleaning, marriage and kids. I'm saying I'd have a full time job anyway-- why add another just to be the 'Perfect Woman?'
That's just me, tho. I think, when it comes down to it, it's a bad idea to generalise on the subject. Ask the object of affection. Chances are, more girls want tradition then you'd think, and more guys want modern. Neither is "wrong," unless they conflict in a relationship.
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