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Really, I'm not that informed on the laws governing leaving the country in Saudi. But it would seem that as an American citizen, she would have some rights to leave and divorce her husband. I mean, if for some strange reason my family decided to go to Saudi, they wouldn't lawfully be able to forbid me from leaving early, right? Her children would also be American citizens. Logically, I wouldn't suppose so the only way was for her to run, but I don't know for sure.
On another note, I really wonder about her husband. Apparently her father was abusive and violent, but her husband seemed to accept her decision to stay at the consulate and leave the country - which apparently required his permission. And how much authority does the father-in-law have in such a relationship? I don't know.
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"Why should the laws make any difference? If she is really desperate enough and really enduring all this torture, why can't she sneak out of the country with her children in the dead of night if necessary."
I'm interested in what the laws are because apparently she followed the laws: She got her husband's permission and left her children and belongings. Anyway, one reason she couldn't do that is because she would have to live in hiding, she couldn't go back to the US and announce "Hey family! Hi US of A! I escaped! Here's me with my kids!" her kids would immediately, and rightfully, be returned to their father.
"This is APPARENT??? REALLY??? How so?"
All right, conceded, rephrased:
"She says her father was abusive and violent"
but why did her father still figure so prominantly in her life?
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I'm interested in what the laws are because apparently she followed the laws: She got her husband's permission and left her children and belongings. Anyway, one reason she couldn't do that is because she would have to live in hiding, she couldn't go back to the US and announce "Hey family! Hi US of A! I escaped! Here's me with my kids!" her kids would immediately, and rightfully, be returned to their father.
Actually, they probably wouldn't immediately, but they'd at least be a poker chip. As it is now, the pheminuts can use them for martyr points. I imagine the marching orders probably read "No book deals, no public support."
Just because I despise the pheminuts doesn't mean I think they are stupid, thus far, in fact, they have out-cannyed anyone who opposes them. This has short term value, but risks a loss in the long term because they'd have to defend American sexism in family law in an apple to apple comparison of Saudi law. Not a winning proposition.
Also, what immediately and uncharitably springs to mind is that once she figured out she couldn't extort child support from a Saudi national (Yeah, it's bloody impossible, they regard female overseas custody as illegitimate and illegal) and she was out her meal ticket for that or from book deals or tours of the Oprah-sob-story circuit, she just cut her losses as the little bastards were of no further use to her; Hopefully, since she's young, she can still land a nice american sucke... er, man to (ahem) provide for her.
What the hell. I'm an uncharitable SOB most the time, and I'm feeling particularly cynical tonight, so I'll go with that.
...why did her father still figure so prominantly in her life?
I've spent some time over there. It's the culture - even being uncharitable, sociologically there's no way around it, so it can be presumed to be her choice.
And that's coming from me, so it means something.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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I'd prefer a situation of a compassionate guy stuck with a miserable wife - with the guy understandably wanting to keep his children. I'm a romantic, so sue me.
Do you think once she got to the US shared custody would be a viable option? Highly doubtful - I could see her husband's point of view in that scenario. However, it's also possible once she somehow got in contact with Pat Rouch [I think that's the name] she realized the ammount of possible martyr points to be accumulated. We don't know for certain if she was fond of her children, she may've been happy to ditch them, once she got the option of leaving at all.
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I meant after running to the consulate - she also said she was afraid of her father's family, not her husband; I was assuming that since she wasn't sent home with her husband, he picked up the kids and said "to hell with you" or some equivalent.
Somehow, I don't see Saudi Arabia being particularly concerned over how American feminists view their laws - this isn't a new thing, cases like this crop up every few years. Get their 60 minutes interviews, and public outrage, and then fade away.
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Really, I'm not that informed on the laws governing leaving the country in Saudi. But it would seem that as an American citizen, she would have some rights to leave and divorce her husband.
It would seem so; and in fact she is - but only if she abandons everything.
I mean, if for some strange reason my family decided to go to Saudi, they wouldn't lawfully be able to forbid me from leaving early, right?
Well, I have been to Saudi, and if you were a moiinor, even on your majority, your father would be able to deny you permission to leave if you all had been made Saudi Citizens.
Her children would also be American citizens.
Saudi law holds Saudi citizenship as being of higher worth and consideration.
Upshot of it is, in order to leave a bad marriage she didn't want to be in, she had to abandon her personal property and her children. While I have some sympathy, especially in light of the Saudi/Mohammedan culture (Which I find to be noxious)it's a shame that the same amount of sympathy can't be summoned for the American male, who lives under the exact same circumstances.
We in America have no room to criticize. We do the exact same thing, but just reverse the genders.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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If this woman whats a taste of real governmental and cultural oppression because of her gender then she should get a sex change operation when she gets here. Then get a family and then a divorce. She hasn't experienced real gender oppresion until she has had a taste of the corrupt family court laws and the war against "deadbeat dads" in the USofA!
Phooey on her petty little problems over in Saudi.
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Pat Roush is a feminist activist on this subject. Here's a link to an article she wrote on this poor woman victim's plight dated June 20.
Note the following quotes:
>"Due to Pat's involvement in this issue, it has become known that there are hundreds, if not thousands of American women and children being held inside Saudi Arabia – tortured, terrified, threatened and unable to come home to America."
It's amazing that she "knows" this for sure but can't get a more accurate figure than "hundreds, if not thousands". All these women are tortured, terrified, and threatened? Are there really this many American women in Saudi Arabia with Saudi husbands? And if this is really the case, what percentage of ALL women in Saudi families are tortured, terrified, and threatened? 90%%? 100%? 125%? 200%? Just more made-up statistical data that feminists are so famous for, the way I see it.
>"She had grown up in a household with an abusive Saudi father who had beaten her on a regular basis, threatened her with a knife, and locked her up in a room for two years as revealed to me in an audiotaped interview a few weeks ago."
Pat Roush knows all this for sure? This woman was locked up in a room for 2 YEARS? All these facts are based on an interview a few weeks ago? Is the only proof we have what someone said in an interview?
>"I will never leave my children here to suffer the same horrible life that I had to endure,"
It sure didn't take long for her to change her mind on this one based on the latest article. Where's the woman's instinct to protect her children at any cost?
I would love to see her husband divorce her in a Saudi Arabian court, get child support based on an inflated imputed income just the way they do it to men here in the states, deny her visitation based on her abandonment of her children, and then seek to have her extradited and thrown in jail when she doesn't pay every month.
I wonder if there's a way to contact the father and advise him of the way of doing things here in our "free" United States.
Dittohd
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