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proves once again that conservatives and feminists are just diffrent sides of the same coin.
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I was incredulous when I read that statement a while back! I can't believe she had the nerve to say that.
I was wondering how long it would take for this to end up here on Men's Activism. :)
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @07:53AM EST (#5)
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The Chavaz article is a classic example of the two faced feminist approach. They want all the prestige and empowerment of military appointments. However, they maintain that the privilege of being slaughtered should reside exclusively with men. I think it's called "chivalry".
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @02:55PM EST (#24)
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Chavez is not a feminist.
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'Linda, I must say I'm surprised and a little disappointed that you would write something like this, especially given your work with an organization with the word "Equal" in its name. Human beings should be treated as equals, and so we should either support military action or condemn it, regardless of the types of people who volunteer to fight in it. I am most disturbed by the notion that some of us seem to have--that a woman's life is worth more than a man's, or that a mother's life is worth more than a father's. This is just the sort of injustice I'd expect you to fight against.'
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 14, @11:19PM EST (#4)
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I responded as well. In this case, it is quite easy to do so. It takes all of 30 seconds and I'm sure she would notice a hundred replies to the same ridiculous comment.
Mark
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @09:54AM EST (#6)
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Boys, Chavez is a friend.
Don't go mad over a statement taken out of context of an entire article.
I repeat, Chavez is a friend. Cool out.
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How is it out of context? I read the article. It's entirely in context. She thinks it's worse for a mother to die than a father. Women's lives are therefore more valuable than men's, in her opinion. She belittles the sacrifices all men who have risked or lost their lives in combat have made. She belittles the loss their families feel. How dare she?
Chavez is no friend of mine. And obviously no friend of men in general or mens rights.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @11:27AM EST (#8)
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The men's movement shoots itself over and over again with its devotion to ideology.
The problem here is the Farrell wing that wants to create "feminism for men." To do so, one must become as single minded as feminists.
Chavez has not stated that men's lives are less valuable than women's, nor has she deprecated the value of men as fathers. She is one of the most staunch supporters of the value of men as fathers.
Chavez is a believer in the traditional sexual roles, and she's right. It is not an improvement to become just as rigid as the feminists, arguing for absolute equality and sameness.
Farrell's "feminism for men" platform is precisely the reason most men reject men's issues. It's for wimps and ideologues. In short, it's for world savers who, very much like communists, want to re-make humans.
Once again, Chavez is a friend. Go ahead. Be a block head and antagonize her. You'll lose a friend and make an enemy. This is the normal course of men's groups. Seen it a thousand times.
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"Chavez is a believer in the traditional sexual roles..."
Fine. I'm not.
"Once again, Chavez is a friend. Go ahead. Be a block head and antagonize her. You'll lose a friend and make an enemy. This is the normal course of men's groups. Seen it a thousand times."
Go back and re-read my response to her if you think I was "antagonizing".
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @01:27PM EST (#10)
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I ceased any involvement in men's issues when it became apparent that the same kind of people control the men's groups as control the feminists -- morons who want to remake the world.
Those who do not "believe in the traditional sexual roles" are fools who have thrown away thousands of years of inherited human wisdom in the belief that they can completely reinvent human life in their own limited lifespan.
Morons holding these beliefs long ago won out in the men's groups.
Any man with sense and balls steers a wide path away from this idiocy.
Go have a crybaby session with Farrell. He'll teach you how to cut off your balls and be proud of it.
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Very mature. "any man with sense and balls" indeed. Nice tactic, call those who disagree with you crybabies. Sorry I outgrew such tactics in junior high. "I double dare you" "Are you chicken?"
Please.
It's idiocy to want equality based on ability? I have no problem with men or women engaging in non-traditional sex-roles". As long as they can do the job, I don't care what their gender is.
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"I ceased any involvement in men's issues when it became apparent that the same kind of people control the men's groups as control the feminists -- morons who want to remake the world.
Those who do not "believe in the traditional sexual roles" are fools who have thrown away thousands of years of inherited human wisdom in the belief that they can completely reinvent human life in their own limited lifespan.
Morons holding these beliefs long ago won out in the men's groups.
Any man with sense and balls steers a wide path away from this idiocy.
Go have a crybaby session with Farrell. He'll teach you how to cut off your balls and be proud of it."
"Anonymous user"--how courageous of you to remain anonymous--I have tried to discuss these matters civilly with you and you have responded by calling me "a moron without sense and balls". How can you expect us to believe you're anything but a troll?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @02:14PM EST (#15)
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The men's movement was long ago hijacked by crybabies. It's not name calling. It's a fact.
The men's movement is populated by strange non-sexual entities who cannot handle the role of a man. It's for weaklings and sissies.
I haven't met the person yet who's against equality in the workplace. Doesn't exist.
A man who will not take on the traditional responsibilities and obligations of a man deserves no respect, and he gets precisely that. The world (and nature) are not going to change just because sissies want it to. The solution is to be a man.
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So define what it is to be a man. Let's see why
I'm a "Sissy crybaby weakling."
I want to know.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @02:48PM EST (#21)
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One of the most difficult and important responsibilities of a man is to stand alone.
Tough, but it's true.
My father taught me how to be a man. It's a long, hard process. At times I resented him for doing it.
Men are meant to strive, to succeed, to face danger, and sometimes even to sacrifice themselves for the women and children. It's not fair and it ain't supposed to be. When women and children return the proper respect for that, men are properly rewarded and cared for.
It is true that the second part of that broke down for a lot of me. The women ceased returning the proper respect.
For some time I struggle to find a solution to that. And I finally did. I discovered that there are women who still believe in returning that respect. Just have to find them. They exist.
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Just curious, justthisguy. To whom are you responding?
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So all that Teamwork I learned in the Army was making me into a sissy? Can't "Stand Alone" if you're part of a team.
I do strive to succeed, and I don't blame others
for my shortcomings. I'm not out there screaming that women are keeping me down. I'm out there demanding that respect you talk about it.
Linda Chavez was disrespecting the sacrifices men make. Now do you get it? She doesn't respect men.
Yes, good women exist. I'm married to one. They are the minority, but they do exist. And she agrees with me about Linda Chavez.
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I'm responding to the anonymous user who says that the men's movement has been hijacked by crybabies. Why do you ask?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @03:00PM EST (#28)
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OK, now I'm going to gell you a something about Linda Chavez.
She's one of the most courageous and respectful women out there. She is the head of an organization that fights (and fights very well) to end the quota system that punishes men, the Center for Individual Rights.
She's one of the most effective people out there trying to end discrimination against men in employment and education. She's a friend.
As I said before, accept that she believes in the traditional roles and sees differences between men and women.
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"I'm responding to the anonymous user who says that the men's movement has been hijacked by crybabies. Why do you ask?"
I understand now. For some reason, AU's reply to me wasn't showing up at first; only your reply to him/her was. I didn't know (at the time) who was talking about "balls" and stuff (so mature). I see now the sequence of posts.
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I disagree. If she was respectful, she would have said "Thank you" to all the men who have died in service and not said that their deaths were less important than if a woman had died.
Done. End of story. Why can't you see that? She is not my friend. She is not my enemey, but she is certainly not my friend.
I see that I struck a nerve, when I called her your idol.
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"A man who will not take on the traditional responsibilities and obligations of a man deserves no respect, and he gets precisely that. The world (and nature) are not going to change just because sissies want it to. The solution is to be a man."
The solution is for you to stop referring to people who disagree with your take on the world as "sissies". See how far you get in life with that sort of diplomacy.
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Yeah, I've had some trouble following a chain of posts at times.
I've been hitting this site for a while, just finally decided to get a handle and post.
I didn't want to post anonymously.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @03:08PM EST (#33)
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What can I say? Some people aren't very bright.
The men's movement isn't exactly full of intellectuals.
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And now, you say I'm stupid.
Nice. I suppose asking you to respond to my points is a bit much.
Goodbye.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @09:40PM EST (#48)
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Linda Chavez doesn't run nor is she a member of CIR. It is headed up by Terrence Pell. I have been involved as a donor with CIR since it began (when Ann Coulter was with it). I don't think you know what you're talking about "moron". You have a lot of hack opinions that you back up with nothing except verbal abuse. You probably think your positions are common sense or something, but really it is just thoughtless ignorance. Go be a man and stand by yourself, we'd probably do better without you.
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Go be a man and stand by yourself, we'd probably do better without you.
Take a closer look at the "shaming language" used by anonymidiot. Betcha "he" is a "she." And give ya three guesses who?
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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I quote "As tragic as the death of a father is in a young child's life, it simply can't compare to the loss of a mother. " That directly states that the value of a mother's life is greater than the value of a father's life. Can't you see that?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @01:58PM EST (#13)
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No, it does not.
I happen to be father to two daughter who lost their mother to a car accident. Chavez isn't arguing that the contribution of either parent is unimportant. She's just stating a fact about the differences between women and men.
Our first attachment in life is to our mother. It is our most primal attachment for the simple reason that we gestate in our mother's womb.
My mother is an LPN who works primarily with the elderly. She reports that almost every human leaves this world saying the same thing: "I want my mommy."
This does not state a preference for mothers over fathers. It's just a recognition of the fierce primal attachment to the mother. This is no way suggests that fathers or men are less important.
Once again, Chavez is a friend. She just doesn't buy into the "there is no difference between men and women" nonsense. Men and women are different, and they are supposed to be.
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I agree men and women are different. And we are supposed to be. Yes, men are, in general, more aggressive. And women are, in general, more nuturing. And, yes, we all gestate in our mothers.
How does this contradict the fact that she flat out said that it is worse to lose you mother than your father?
When my parents die, I will mourn them. I will not say, " well, it was worse when mom died." How rude and insulting.
Since we're using anecdotes, I know people who have died in combat. A friend of mine died in the Persian Gulf on February 25th, 1991. He was temporarily assigned to stay in the barracks that got hit by a scud missile. Now, I want Linda Chavez to go to his family's home, and tell them that it would have been worse had Joe been Joann. That it was less tragic than if a woman had died.
Once again, she's no friend of mine. I am not friends with bigots. I do not think it is less tragic when a woman dies, or a asian, or a jew, or a african, or a man.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @02:25PM EST (#17)
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Calling others bigots is now the last refuge of the scoundrel.
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I call them like I see them. So now I'm a scoundrel as well as a "sissy, weakling, crybaby"
If I said "losing your mother cannot compare to losing your father" in a publication. I would be called a "woman-bashing misogynist". Fair is fair.
I notice you did not respond to any of other statements. Must have been because you can't.
Why don't you register and get an ID?
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By the way, if scoundrels call other bigots
Then who calls others "Sissies", "crybabies", "morons", and "weaklings".
Can't stand to see your idol put down, huh?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @02:49PM EST (#22)
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"Calling other bigots etc"
Whoever made the above post is obviously a feminist attempting sabotage.
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"I agree men and women are different. And we are supposed to be. Yes, men are, in general, more aggressive. And women are, in general, more nuturing. And, yes, we all gestate in our mothers."
Even if the above is true, the key phrase here is "in general". I'm glad you included it. Those who ignore that part of the above are the ones who insult every woman who plays sports by calling her a man, and who insult every man who's more nurturing than combative by calling him a woman.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @03:16PM EST (#36)
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Ground control to major Tom.
No wonder the men's movement is such a farce.
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Thanks. Most don't appreciate the distinction.
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by Anonymous User on Friday May 16, @12:29AM EST (#50)
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No, just another conservative that loves to blow his own horn. Everyone that doesn't fit into his rigid role is a pussy, wimp, or whatever insult of the day he chooses. If you aren't pussy-whipped and out protecting and providing for women then you aren't a real man. People like this are why feminists are able to roll over men and why family courts take kids away from men. If you speak up for yourself you're a whiner or at worst gay (oh, the horror, the horror). Conservatives and feminists both want women to be a protected special class, they on occasion team up together.
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Dodging the arguments with ad hominem attacks is one of the last refuges of someone who's already lost.
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Anonymous, you've got it wrong about Warren Farrell. I've read all but one of his books and I've never come away thinking that he's promoting "feminism for men" as you put it. He doesn't promote lies, bigotry, discrimination and hatred toward women. He challenges and corrects the lies and disinformation that comes in overabundance from the feminist camp. Challenging a bigoted, hypocritical attitude that's based on lies and illogical thinking is not counterproductive or shameful. It is not an indication of ideological rigidity.
Farrell stresses that he would never condone or be a part of any movement that promotes hatred of or violence toward women. If the tables were turned and it were women and mothers who were the objects of hatred and ridicule he would be defending them. I've said this before to people who make this charge against Farrell. He is far kinder and more generous to women than feminists are to men.
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Why don't you answer for her statement that mothers are more valuable than fathers, instead of writing ten sentences of airy nonsense that have nothing to do with the topic of discussion?
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Gentlemen:
In my not so humble opinion, you are wasting your time with this troll. I'm not even sure the person agrees with Chavez. Perhaps he/she just wants to stir things up. But it's obvious that this person has nothing constructive to say. Please consider stating that you are ignoring the childish ad hominum of this troll and instead use your time on some activism, maybe writing to Chavez.
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Yeah, I'm done with the troll.
Already sent my meassage to Chavez. I urge everyone to do so as well.
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Already sent my meassage to Chavez. I urge everyone to do so as well.
Good for you, justthisguy. After all, the main purpose of this site is Men's Activism. And thanks for getting a handle.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @04:06PM EST (#43)
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I don't regret for a moment leaving men's issues behind me.
I can remember when I thought that men could actually organize and change things.
Didn't know that I was involving myself in a cesspool of stupidity.
Every once in a while, I come back to take a look. Nothing's change. Just damned fools messing their pants.
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by Anonymous User on Friday May 16, @12:01AM EST (#49)
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Messing our pants eh? You mock a war vetran and other men who aren't whipped by women into "traditional roles" spending thier life in an endless pursuit for sex. Keep up your chivalry while women take over and drooling fools such as yourself sit on the sidelines protecting the poor weak ladies.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @04:40PM EST (#44)
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"And thanks for getting a handle"
Thomas,
i have a handle on another computer which I no longer use, and would like to keep the same handle - hobbes - on the computer I am using now. however it won't let me because that handle is already taken (by the comp. that I no longer use). Is their any way for me to use my old handle even though I use a different computer?
I'm sure there is a simple fix to this that I haven't figure out yet...
Thanks
-hobbes
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hobbes,
I'm note sure, but what about using something like "hobbes1" or "hobbes1000?" When I go into the MANN chats (which I usually can't attend) I use "Thomas1000," because Thomas has been reserved by someone else.
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AHA!
i think figured it out...
I'll see if this post is labeled...
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I'll see if this post is labeled...
Great. It's good to see.
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By the way, I had moderated this character's posts as flamebait. That gave it a rating of -1. If you want to see posts rated as -1, you have to set your preferences to do so. Many people don't want such worthless ad hominum to show up, so they set their preferences to screen out all -1 posts. Somehow the -1 got changed to 0, so you can now probably see the posts of this AU.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 15, @03:34PM EST (#41)
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In other words, you lost.
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No, you lost, because you have done nothing but dance around the topic of discussion and make ad-hominem attacks as an anonymous user. The rating system exists so that users can register their opinions of other users' comments, as well as act as a noise filter, and that is what he did. I'd have marked it as flamebait as well but the second you post to a thread you lose moderation privileges over the entire article and any moderation you've already done is rolled back. I would suggest you enroll in a critical thinking or debate course at your local community college before you try to stir things up on a board like this.
By the way...
Your lame attempts at coolness are sad like teardrops!
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If we are going to oppose women in the military, it should be on the grounds that female soldiers are a detriment to a military operation due to their physical limitations. It should not be on the grounds that human beings, big and small, are too emotionally retarded to live in a world without our precious Mommies.
It should also not be on the grounds that women are too "good" as living creatures to be put at risk of becoming un-living creatures. Especially not when that "goodness" has more to do with a social popularity contest between the sexes which women win for whatever reason.
Of course, I'd be willing to live with the stipulation that women be exempt from soldiering because they are too "good" to be endangered soldiers if it was coupled with the stipulation that men, likewise, be exempt from Motherhood because male brains and brawn are too sophisticated to be wasted on singing lullabyes and picking up toys.
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I have tits, and so do mothers, therefore since I am valuable they must also be valuable. All those males who don't have tits are different than me so they must not be valuable.
The value of a person is directly proportional to how much they resemble me.
This is how the feminazis think.
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