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Can anybody give me more details on the lawsuit that was brought against the 10 domestic violence shelters? I'd really like to read more on this.
Is the LA chapter suing to have the shelters' doors opened to men? (More power to 'em! I'd love to see that happen!) And, legally speaking, do you think the NCFM stands a good chance to win the lawsuit?
If anybody has any links to this story, please post 'em! Also, is there an online broadcast of the radio show? I'd love to listen to it.
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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If anybody has any links to this story, please post 'em! Also, is there an online broadcast of the radio show? I'd love to listen to it.
Go to the NCFM site, also , Glen Sacks page.
We may want to link Sacks page on the board too.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @04:42PM EST (#4)
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http://www.hisside.com/
Here is the link for the radio show and I will contact Marc A. and ask him to divulge what is o.k. I am not sure what should be divulged at this point as the suit has been filed against L.A. County. It is now a pending lawsuit. I'd love to sign my name to this, but it's probably better that I don't. Please don't take that as an unfriendly gesture. It's not. It's just one of those legal things I'd be well advised to omit at this point. I'm sure this will all be coming out more in a little while and I hope that all goes well. Battered men could certainly use a break. Sorry for all the evasiveness.
A Friend
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No problem, I understand completely. That's one of those legal situations where ya wanna make sure all your "i's" are dotted and all your "t's" crossed. Just promise me one thing:
GIVE 'EM HELL! :o)
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @07:41PM EST (#7)
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The lawsuit is against 10 domestic violence shelters in Southern California that receive state funding and that refuse to provide shelter to male victims. Some shelters do not even refer male victims to the one shelter that helps males (way out in the desert community of Lancaster). This particular suit is aimed not at money but at an injunction to get the shelters to serve both sexes and consequently to provide the same outreach to males as to females. So it’s more than just getting them to provide space to males; it’s also about getting them to stop lying about male victims. In the future when the setting is ripe we might also sue for money damages but for now we are not.
The suit is based primarily on the following laws:
California Government Code Section 11135(a):
"(a) No person in the State of California shall, on the basis of race, national origin, ethnic group identification, religion, age, sex, color, or disability, be unlawfully denied full and equal access to the benefits of, or be unlawfully subjected to discrimination under, any program or activity that is conducted, operated, or administered by the state or by any state agency, is funded directly by the state, or receives any financial assistance from the state.”
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdoc ID=3741504234+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
California Code of Regulations, title 22, section 98000 and 98100:
“No person in the State of California shall, on the basis of ethnic group identification, religion, age, sex, color, or physical or mental disability, be unlawfully denied the benefits of, or be unlawfully subjected to discrimination under, any program or activity that is funded directly by the state or receives any financial assistance from the state.”
http://ccr.oal.ca.gov/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientI D=152177&E22=title%2022&E23=98000&E24=&infobase=cc r&querytemplate=%261.%20Go%20to%20a%20Specific%20S ection&record={65BB4}&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg42
And my favorite, California Code of Regulations, title 22, section 98243 (too bad the government hasn’t bothered yet to apply it to males):
“Any rule, policy or practice which treats men and women differently for purposes of any program or activity on the basis of aggregate statistical characteristics of men or women, whether founded in fact, belief or statistical probability is a discriminatory practice.”
http://ccr.oal.ca.gov/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientI D=152177&E22=title%2022&E23=98000&E24=&infobase=cc r&querytemplate=%261.%20Go%20to%20a%20Specific%20S ection&record={65BB4}&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg42
We do plan to post the complaints for our lawsuits on the NCFM-LA Website. Only two of them are posted there so far and the Site is about two months behind because our courageous Webmaster J.K. is tirelessly working on new paternity fraud legislation. We hope to have it updated in a week or two. Right J.K.? :-)
On the lawsuit against L.A. County for a Commission for Men (which is posted on our site under “Activist Projects,” “current”), we had a small but significant victory last week when we thwarted the County’s attempts to get the case thrown out of court without a trial. The trial is set for April 28, 2003. Sanford B., Murray, S., Warren F., Martin F., Dianna T., Patricia O. and others have already agreed to testify without a fee if we cover their airfare/travel costs. (Ray B. and Elton C. have generously offered $1,000 each toward this and we thank them wholeheartedly.) The case is tied (officially, "related," meaning they've put them together to be heard by the same judge though not necessarily at the exact same time) to another case we have against the County for spending millions of dollars on an office of women’s health with no office of men’s health. That case will be heard in about ten months or so.
I can’t say much more about the case at this time but we’ll keep mensactivism posted.
Marc Angelucci
National Coalition of Free Men, Los Angeles
http://www.ncfmla.org
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Do you think there's any chance the mainstream media will pick this up and report on it? (The suit against the DV shelters, that is.)
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @09:39PM EST (#11)
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One reporter for a medium sized local newspaper in the San Gabriel Valley expressed an interest so far. I think there is a very good chance of coverage, yes, but bigger type of coverage probably won't come until later in the game when we put an effort into press conferences. We have done this in the past and have had reasonable success. We're just too swamped right now and it's probably not the most ripe time yet, especially with the war. We'll do it at the right time. Marc
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @09:45PM EST (#12)
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Good questions. It's certainly a newsworthy, controversial story, however, Bernie Goldberg didn't just write his book "Biased," because the media is so objective, & fair and blanced to topics like this.
I'm taking a wait and see attitude about that. No doubt there would be a very thorough coverage of the established d.v. movements opinions if any such coverage should ever happen.
A Friend
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Marc - Thanks for this message and for the great job you and Ray did on Glenn's show.
I would love to be a part of something similar here in Maryland for the local DV shelters where men are shipped to motels rather than to the "Womens" DV shelters. No one seems to think there is anything wrong with this! We have also had a Commission for women since 1975 but none for men. What would it take to follow your example here in the DC area?
Stand Your Ground Forum
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @09:38PM EST (#10)
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"What would it take to follow your example here in the DC area?"
As we've often said here (Mensactivism) the needs of men are great and resources and volunteers few. A good activist lawyer is the obvious answer, but as with many things it's just not that simple. We at NCFMLA have a full hopper of projects waiting in the wings to get our teeth into. One of them is tabling at colleges and universities (especially ones that have law school students). Another place that has proven productive is in front of the court houses themselves (on public sidewalks). We have other sites, but we are so involved in so many things that we honestly aren't properly covering them all.
Others should not feel obligated to follow NCFMLA's example. It's o.k. if you do, but the dynamics (projects) of each group are very dependent on the backgrounds, skills, abilities, etc. of the people in the group.
We have been very blessed to have brought together the group of people that we have and our future holds many obstacles. Still, in looking back, we have already come a long and amazing way. Each day (night) in this group is an adventure (literally). The role players in this group are covering a lot of ground in a very short period of time. It's a little hard to give a more conclusive assessment to our activities. when things are so fluid, so dynamic, other than to say it is ongoing in several areas. It is definitely happening on several levels.
Just so you know that we're not bragging let me say that we could all use a day or two off. However, we feel that we are doing things that are so important to helping some hapless, unknown, victimized guy who is out there, that our consciences drive us to accept the responsibility for the opportunities that have been set before us. He's heavy, he isn't my brother, but that unknown hapless guy out there has been me and that makes it very personal.
A Friend
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @09:55PM EST (#13)
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Tom,
Good question. I wish I could help. I don't know the law in DC and I don't think this is likely to get far under federal law unless maybe if you have a plaintiff that has a very powerful story where perhaps death or very serious injury was a very clear result of the discrimination. I'd research the gender or sex discrimination laws in DC and consult civil rights' attorneys about it if any of them are willing to at least offer advise. We couldn't sue the shelters under the CA law that we ordinarily use (Civil Code 51) because it only covers "business establishments" and these shelters are nonprofits who don't fall under that category, at least not legally. And we couldn't sue under the state constitution because the shelters are private. But if they receive state funds they are not supposed to be discriminating per the law I cited earlier. And that is the type of law I think you should look for in your state if you want to do a lawsuit like this. There are websites where you can do term searches for the laws in your state. Perhaps www.findlaw.com has something helpful. It will probably take some time and some work. And for any lawsuit I recommend first trying to resolve the matter outside of court in some way and documenting it in writing, like going to your county's and city's domestic violence commission or council meetings, speaking out, writing a proposal for a task force on male victims, etc. Get it documented and in writing. Courts are almost always at least a little more favorable when you show you tried to resolve it outside court first and the other side was unreasonable. As you know it can always be tactful to work with NCFM in DC too. Good luck with this Tom.
Marc
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by Anonymous User on Saturday March 22, @05:31PM EST (#5)
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http://www.lapdonline.org/flash/lapd_intro.html
http://www.dvmen.org/dv-80.htm#pgfId-1378736
I assume Marc was referring to these two sources when he spoke.
Here are the links that show how the LAPD still doesn't tell the truth about domestic violence. My pastor heard no less than the an LAPD Police Chief using the false 95/5 statistic in a lecture on domestic violence he was giving in a San Fernando Valley church. A police chief lying in a church to a pastor may sound pretty bad, but the frosting on the cake was that this police chief got caught lying under oath in a court of law a week or two after this. As you can see by these two links the LAPD (now under federal gov't oversight) is still lying about domestic violence. When you're as crooked as LAPD it just comes natural. Too bad they don't sue these feminist trained minions of the domestic violence movement.
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