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Do shirts and ties discriminate against men?
posted by Adam on Wednesday February 26, @09:11AM
from the Inequality dept.
Inequality Serge writes "Have your say." Pointing out the double standards here will be a good thing.

Chivalry Linked to Sexist Views of Women | Pheminism at work - From the "MS." files  >

  
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Dress for success (Score:1)
by dave100254 on Wednesday February 26, @12:34PM EST (#1)
(User #1146 Info)
I read that book a long time ago. It eluded to the training of society to view people dressed a certain way as professionals', or those that the rest of us should defer to. Has anyone noticed while wearing a suit they are treated with a fair amount of defernce by the general public? Men opening doors for men in suits, calling them sir? In as far as dress codes go to work for a company, if the codes are not comparable for both genders, then they are sexist. Either they don't feel that women fit the role of "professional", and then therefore it doesn't matter what they wear, or they are discriminating against men out of fear of reprisal enforcing a dress code for women.
Re:Dress for success (Score:1)
by CoyoteV on Thursday February 27, @10:58AM EST (#5)
(User #233 Info)
Shirts and ties discriminate against men no more than bras and blouses do against women. I think there's practically an equilibrium between the genders when it comes to dressing professionally. All of us would prefer a more lax means of attire, but that is the rule of the professional world when it comes to rigid codes. We are more lax in the South, 'though there is still a sartorial hierarchy affecting both genders. It may not be practical, but it exists, nonetheless. I, fortunately, wear ties only when the social occasion dictates. The rest of the time I dress comfortably, as do the ladies. Put any of these IBM'ers out in an un-airconditioned environment and they quickly dress down. Not that easy up north. I think the inventor of the tie moonlighted as a hangman. As did the inventor of the bra and corset, only as a torturer. There are, however, medical reasons for wearing a bra...such as imminent sagging. There is no apparent reason for the garrotting application of a tie, IMHO.
Comfortable men's clothes (Score:1)
by chuck on Wednesday February 26, @12:40PM EST (#2)
(User #4 Info)
There's always the possibility of taking the challenge to the extreme and then finally settling for what is reasonable in the first place -- as a "compromise."
 
Unfortunately what I think of as reasonable -- a kilt -- others are likely to think of as extreme.
 
There's a great deal to recommend a kilt; it's cool (in both senses), so air conditioning costs are reduced; it's traditionally male; it's not crotch-clutching, like whatever you may be wearing now: it's incredibly comfortable if you sit at your work; it doesn't have to be tartan ("plaid" to the uninitiated); you don't have to be a Scot; it doesn't have to be wool, or expensive; it is quite formal, depending on the material and pattern, you can even wear it with a shirt and tie without dying of heat prostration; it's very masculine (watch the women react).
 
All these are very good reasons for the management to take you seriously when you tell them you intend to wear a kilt to work (or when you do it without asking, which is probably best.)
Check out sportkilt.com and utilikilts.com -- and have a cool, comfortable summer.

Re:Comfortable men's clothes (Score:1)
by Uberganger on Thursday February 27, @04:47AM EST (#3)
(User #308 Info)
The only problem with wearing a kilt to work is that if a female colleague saw your knees it would probably count as sexual harrassment.
Re:Comfortable men's clothes (Score:1)
by Severin on Thursday February 27, @07:43AM EST (#4)
(User #1050 Info)
Hear, hear!

Kilts are just about the most comfortable clothes I own. I've even gone to the trouble of making some of my own, because it allows me more flexibility in types of material, look, etc. But you do get a certain amount of static when you wear one.

Sean
Kilts (Score:1)
by incredibletulkas on Saturday March 01, @09:58AM EST (#6)
(User #901 Info)
Acutally it's called wearing "kilts," ala "pants;" it's best to remember that terminology when you demand to wear one, citing "cultural sensitivity and tolerance" to your Gaelic heritage (or preferences, if you're not "Scot").

Good point about genital constriction BTW, since such is dangerous as well as uncomfortable beyond anything that women complain about in their "expected" attire; likewise, a necktie is pretty much just a societal leash-and-collar/hangman's noose, and wearing one is a sign of qualified privilege only at the cost of submission, much as a dog wears his collar and does his work proudly, but also at the expense of freedom.

(Not that dogs should be free-- but this parallels disturbingly with feminists' trivially referring to "men as dogs," in terms of both mentality and the need for "domination and training"-- I was fairly outraged at their disclaimers of how "it's funny when used by women against men, not the reverse" and "men need to learn to take a joke" etc... I guess "no" only means "no" when spoken by a WOMAN (even though we know about THAT myth as well, i.e. men are required by law to be not only mind-readers, but also to be fortune-tellers to be sure she won't have REGRETS afterward since rape and paternity are the only ex post facto laws allowed on the books.


Re:Kilts (Score:1)
by chuck on Saturday March 01, @01:48PM EST (#7)
(User #4 Info)
A correction to your correction;
An important book here is "So You're Going to Wear the Kilt" * by J. Charles Thompson. A North American by the way, and not a purist about family connections or other hard-and-fast rules - though he does let you know what looks best. Personally I prefer a non tartan kilt (preferably with pockets) or a tartan kilt , one of the "universal tartans" to be worn with a large capacity sporran (a.k.a. a Scotman's codpiece).

*Note singular usage.

Chuck
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