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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 25, @09:01PM EST (#1)
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Dear Eeva:
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and God Bless you.
Much of what you say has happened to me.
How many times will this same shocking story have to be told before people begin to understand it's happening. They just don't get it still. This evil movement cotinues to MANufacture new victims every day, getting more bogus statistics to MANufacture more male victims to get more money, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. When will this evil movement come under control or be stopped?
Sincerely, Ray
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Love you Ray, your posts have been much appreciated here. I'm sorry for your grief and sorrow. The stories must be told, over and over. So that it stops and never happens again.
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Very sorry to hear of this Ray. I have heard many stories like this. Several of my friends and I have experienced bits and pieces of this during divorce, but nothing as extreme.
I am amazed when I meet men who are still standing after this.
Best wishes.
Will
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 26, @01:34PM EST (#5)
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Eeva sent this very nice email to me. I find her sense of decency and fairness refreshing. I can say that since working with the victims of paternity fraud and their immediate, struggling, disenfranchised families I find her closing words especially timely:
-------------------------------------
"Thank you for reading and writing. I have received so many sad letters like yours. The answer is for men and those women who support them to say that enough is enough. Most women don't do what I described is happening to men. However, more and more of them do so. Yet, on the other hand, more and more women like myself are becoming aware of what is going on. Take the message to the polls. Ask your representative what is he/she going to do about it. Unless we do something, it might be too late. Talk about it at the office, challenge those who doubt the veracity.
And don't be afraid, only cautious. Look at all the good women who marry and support those men men who have been hurt. These women sacrifice everything, they work to earn a living so that the man's salary can go to the former wife, who may be supported by several other men (a neighbour of mine does that). These women act as the real mothers to their husbands' children (whenever, or if, they have a chance to see them) though their own children, if they were brave enough to have any, go without. Yet they never complain. Maybe I should write about them next.
There is plenty of love, the secret is to find it.
Take care,
Eeva"
---------------------------------
Thanks Again Eeva, your honesty and help is much appreciated. You are living proof that there are loving people who are making a difference. Sincerely, Ray
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Ray I can't imagine going through what has been described above, and I've read more about it I'm feeling a sense of betryal and outrage that our system of justice could be so distorted... but no doubt it's nothing compared to what you must feel. Best wishes.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 26, @11:42AM EST (#4)
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Short personal story:
This article is so true. My ex who has some serious issues concerning personal responsibility and accountability used the “system” as a way to eliminate me from her life when she decided to build a relationship with a woman.
After finding out that she broke our engagement and after I left her house for good, the following day the police show up at my place and arrest me. I was shackled to “gang-bangers” (as they called themselves, I am an engineer) and thrown in a holding cell at the county JAIL with a car thief. My bad luck, as it was a holiday weekend so I had to wait two days and two nights in confinement with incarcerated felons before going to court to get bail set.
I still had no idea what the actual charges were against me. I ended up spending a week in a holding tank because my ex ‘felt’ scared so the judge kept me locked up with a loophole called MA 58A, which denies bail. Although my ex testified that I had no history of violence (and I had never been arrested before, I had a clean record) I was locked up and did not even know what the actual charges were, and was unable to even defend myself. Walking into court shackled made me look guilty before any facts and made it impossible to even examine the lies, and the two lesbians show up and cried on demand when needed to make me look bad (they were observed laughing when leaving the courthouse later on).
My ex’s new lover was providing false witness and lied and actually said I assaulted her (she was not even there that night). She provided an old bruise on her ankle as evidence that the court accepted as some type of demonic hard evidence that I was some sort of monster or something. I’d like to add that this ankle bruise was totally inconsistent with her made up account of what happened anyway.
I was forced to plead guilty just to get out of confinement and now have the usual long probation (many years), many meetings at expensive abuse meetings, and I have to leave work a couple of times every week to go to a courthouse, or a meeting...
To make a long story short, today women have the right to lie, change their story, provide inconsistent evidence, and keep you locked up and you will suffer because you are a man. This is what the 'system' is set up for now. I was shocked at the amount of men who were in lockup because they had some type of domestic issue occur in their life. An observed commonality among these men were that they were generally poor, and there were no actual injuries to either party involved, and they all say that anytime they have an argument with their woman, these woman all threaten to call the cops for no reason at all because they all know that the man will be arrested and dragged away.
Men’s liberty and basic constitutional safeguards are now the acceptable collateral damage in the political WAR being waged against domestic violence. Be very careful in your selection of a mate, and make honesty your ‘number one’ prerequisite in your selection.
Real violence is wrong. But the way the system works right now should be the number one focus of all free men (and women) - there has to be a better way... what happened to me was very wrong.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 26, @03:48PM EST (#6)
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Dear Anon:
My then wife's week or two old bruise, from moving a filing cabinet, was on her thigh. I am still in shock and disbelief at the unconstitutional, police state tactics that were used against me to reward a woman who had put me on crutches as I was pleading with her to stop trashing the house in a violent rage.
If the police (LAPD) spent as much time looking at the true evidence as they do looking for rationalizations, and unbelievable stretches of the imagination, to support their profiling prejudices, there wouldn't be so many innocent men being egregiously denied justice.
You are my friend. We are bound together by a common bond of gross injustice at the hands of domestic violence law. May our injuries received at the hands of tyrannical oppressors be the might that fuels our indignity to rise up and say to these evil, evil devils, "As God is my witness, you will antithetically change from your venal ways or you will go down rotting in your own filthy corruption, with no more effort made on my part, than the repeated proclamation of this truth, that I have stated here."
The flagrantly corrupt LAPD is NOW under the direct oversight of the federal government, because of past egregious crimes committed against the good citizens of Los Angeles.
Unfortunately, LAPD still adheres to the same corrupt domestic violence policies fostered and imposed on our government by the influence of the many women's commission in Los Angeles. There is, to this date, no Commission for Men to have valid, needed input into d.v. policy. This post underscores the desperate need for a Men's Commission, and that is why the County of Los Angeles is being sued to start one.
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 26, @05:15PM EST (#7)
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Thanks for the response.
I have to remain 'anonymous' until my nasty unconstitutional probation/restraining order ends. When my probation is up, I will be attaching my real name to all posts. I can't risk her knowing anything about me right now. She is too vindictive of a person and she will protect her false sense of self above my freedom any day of the week.
My 'ex' walks around this city in which we both live, and I am somehow expected to watch out and make sure there are no accidental meetings (i.e grocery store, fuel pump..ect..) for I will be put in prison for 90 days if we accidently saw eachother - this is because of the "stalking laws' that have been added into restraining orders.
I assure you, I hope to never see her again and I hope her and her lesbian lover leave my home city, but I am walking on pins and needles everytime I leave my home for I can get jailed for simply driving within 400 yards of someplace she might be even if I don't know she is there in the first place. It is totally up to her to act as jury and judge on this decision just like she did when she tried to lock me up in the first place. Even now, I could provide a 100 personal references on my character, including ex girlfriends, and the system only cares about what she thinks about me. My probabtion officer bases her level of "difficulty" in handling my case based on how my ex thinks I should be treated. She calls her all the time. It is totally messed up.
I have been stripped of my dignity, for 35 years I always strove to do the 'right thing' all the time - ruined by a very confused woman...
When on thinks about it - She did the right thing, she got the upper hand in ridding me for good by a system designed to empower her without addressing the facts or the truth in the matter. She got to keep all my stuff in the process. I do not dare have my lawyer ask for it back (fear of vindictive action - one phone call...), and she hasn't offered it back anyway.
When did our country get so f*cked up? This (false) victim advocacy is right out of "1984"
Since when is having an argument about someone breaking an engagement to pursue a lesbian lifestyle become a felony when no one was even slightly hurt?
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by Anonymous User on Sunday January 26, @06:02PM EST (#8)
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This came about because too many men were shamed into silence, and too cowardly to confront gross attacks on men. But the times they are a changing...
Nothing can undo the grave injustice that you've suffered. I feel badly for you. But it's like those scenes in Rocky IV, where Rocky hears that voice, "Get up, you bum, Jesus loves you" (or something like that). You can and must get back up.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 27, @02:09AM EST (#9)
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"When did our country get so f*cked up? This (false) victim advocacy is right out of "1984"
Since when is having an argument about someone breaking an engagement to pursue a lesbian lifestyle become a felony when no one was even slightly hurt?"
Dear Anon:
To specifically answer your question it has been since the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) was passed during the Clinton administration based on false feminist statistics concerning domestic violence. This area of law has been a Draconian force of man hating injustice ever since.
Please do everything you can right now to survive this, and when you come out on the other side we welcome you to actively take part in the struggle to take back our constitutional rights in this and other areas where men are being violently abused by the American system of law itself. The source of all this tyranical injustice is the influence of America's radical feminists on our elected representatives and legal system. Hang in there and please feel free to jump in and post here anytime even if you go off topic a little. It's more important that you have the support of good men who understand what your going through, have been there too.
I don't know what area you live in, but the National Coalition of Free Men is a fine organization that I am a part of in the L.A. area. There web site has links to the various chapters they have in cities in the U.S.
Sincerely, Ray
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There's only one way to insure that this doesn't happen again. Avoid women. Learn from your lesson, and exile them from your life. It's not worth being jailed, loss of property, the defamation of character, and all the associated heartbreak. Forget it, and move on.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 27, @08:03AM EST (#11)
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this might be a solution for an ideal world, but how about we stop pleading guilty when we're innocent.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 27, @11:13AM EST (#12)
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"how about we stop pleading guilty when we're innocent"
I couldn't agree more. But in my case, my lawyer told me it was the best way to end the nightmare that I was going through.
When a judge denies setting bail, and there are no actual injuries or even evidentiary proceedings, and being stuck in prison with convicted felons for A WEEK, getting out and saving my life from ruin took precident over any 'higher ground'... unfortunately.
The system is absolutely rigged for a guilty verdict. In my case, if the judge had set bail (mind you - gang members who shot firearms had bail set, and I didn't, and when mine was set it was set for the same amount) WAS the only reason I did a plea bargain. The victim advocates knew I was too smart, and that the case was too flimsy to let me have any control in fighting the insanity.
I think a better answer to your question (stop pleading guilty when we're innocent) would be:
- there is so much information available for women that informs them on how to handle domestic matters including advocates, and there are no consciousness raising material or advocates or contact material for men on how to handle things when falsely accused of domestic violence (of course "violence" only has to be "percieved" not actual) that men like myself are not equiped to even understand what we are up against until we find ourself pressured into pleading guilty to save our jobs and lives from ruin.
Who is doing this job on a national, or even regional basis? I bet no one. All we do in the men's movement in grumble about things on posting boards, while the men-hating feminists take more and more constitutional safe-guards are rights away from men every year,
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For starts we could create a resource board with National info on male-friendly attorneys with a proven track record of helping men.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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Here's one based in Maryland called the "Fathers United for Equal Rights Foundation."
http://marylandfathers.org/
Josh
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 28, @03:11PM EST (#16)
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Anon,
What an awful expirience. Yet instead of taking it lying down, you are here trying to fight back. Kudos to you!
I think your expirience is an important one to have on record, it is horrifying to see just how far the system goes these days.
I actually was wondering if anyone has talked to any police officers about what their rules are. It could very well be that their hands in many cases are tied as well. Or it could be that they just don't realize this is a possibility.
My father was a cop for 32 years, and he has seen way more crap than he should have. Maybe since all the police see is DV against women, they honestly do not think it CAN happen to men, or they are so jaded they don't see what is in front of their faces.
My friend's sister is a chief of police nearby. I thought I may talk to her about how these things are handled there. It may be easier than we think to talk to these people, if we keep in mind they are just people, who can be as misled as anyone. LAPD are not the only police in the country. Perhaps if we can start in small towns with getting some procedures changed, it will spread.
Right here with you, Anon, Jen
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 28, @08:16PM EST (#17)
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"My friend's sister is a chief of police nearby. I thought I may talk to her about how these things are handled there." "LAPD are not the only police in the country." "I actually was wondering if anyone has talked to any police officers about what their rules are."
Jen:
http://www.glennsacks.com/baseball_players_domesti c.htm (no spaces)
Please read carefully the 7th paragraph in this story to get some insight into how these things are handled in many municipalities, since the Violence Against Women Act is a federal law, and since the training most police dept's. receive is based on the feminists' model of domestic violence.
Not every place is as bad as L.A., some are better, but some are even worse. I don't want to scare you, and I don't know the ages of your sons, but imagine one of your sons in this hypothectical situation:
He dates a girl a few times and decides he likes his old girl friend better so he goes back to her. In a vindictive fit of jealous rage the young female he is breaking up with argues with him, then gets very vindictive and calls the police and says he harmed her in some way and shows the police bruises she got from sports events (Title IX). Your son tells the truth, but the police do not have their "quota" of male arrests for the month so... you guess the rest. Welcome to L.A. This happens every day here, and a lot of other places in the U.S.
I sincerely hope that everyone here treats you more graciously in this string, than in the last one. If I ever disagree with your opinion I will endeavor to refute that, but not you as a person. I encourage you to continue your posts and welcome your input. Considering that Warren Farrell was once on the Board of NOW and is now one of our staunchest allies it would be irresponsible for anyone to "once and for all" dismiss anyone who wants to learn more about the many injustices that have occurred at the hands of the radical feminist agenda. We all have to start somewhere, and I can think of no better place then mensactivism. Again, welcome.
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 29, @09:13AM EST (#18)
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Thnaks Jen.
Yes it was an awful experience. I am healing though - slowly.
I tell everyone, expecially my male friends about how they are one phone call away from ruin... As I get my life back in order, I am very good at getting my point 'out there' - I am working leads right now. ;-)
Anon
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 29, @01:55PM EST (#19)
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Jen:
Here is a direct quotation from that article that I put the web site address to in another post. The author is Glenn J. Sacks and the aritcle first appreared in The Los Angeles Daily Journal and The San Francisco Daily Journal:
"Part of the problem is the training that police officers receive from the domestic violence industry, which insists that 95% of domestic violence is committed by men. Southern California domestic violence consultant Anne O'Dell, who has conducted over 500 domestic violence trainings of police officers and commanders, judges, district attorneys, and victim advocates, tells her trainees that "if a police officer is arresting more than 8% women, you've got a real problem. When an officer arrests 12% or 15% women, I'm outraged." O'Dell says that dual arrests should occur in no more than 3% of incidents."
Hence the quota system for arresting men that we have in place in California.
Sincerely, Ray
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Dear Anon - Thanks for telling your experience. It's important that we as men get our stories out in the open. Too often there is an assumption that men 1) have all the power 2) have everything they want 3) don't have emotional pain. It is hard to believe but it is true that this message has been drilled into the consciousness of millions of people in the US. With this in mind I have started a place on the web for men to write about their experiences in hopes that others will read and learn about men's issues and men's pain.
This is a long winded way for me to ask you if I can use your story? I would be happy to post it anonymously for you. I understand completely your situation. Just let me know. You can see the beginnings of things here.
I hope that anyone here who wants to post their experience will feel free to do so. You can post it here. You can contact me at tom@standyourground.com
Stand Your Ground Forum
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