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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 22, @01:12PM EST (#1)
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The great thing about driveing the feminists to madness is, that it's a very short drive.
(FUN too!)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka-hey!"
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Good to bring the topic up, but it I read it and it never quite spells it out: YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING YOU WANT, INCLUDING A PERFECT MATERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH KIDS AND A HIGH-FLIER CAREER!
This is true for people of both sexes, yet the article acts like women are sleighted for not being able to do what men can't do. It tacitly assumes women have the RIGHT to forming a strong motherly relationhip with kids AND be able to expect to have the same rewards financially and professionally as if they had given what men gave to get it. The article suggests that "changes have to be made to allow women to get on and off a work and mommy track without them being penalized for it."
Ahem, mesdammes, but men are penalized all the time for choosing to do *anything* other than work 40+ hours a week. Certainly with a fly-in, fly-out high-powered mgt. job, one should expect to live in airports and charge 120 hours a week to the company, and not see one's kids. Men do it all the time.
The choice both sexes have remains clear: you pick a job/career or spending more time doing other things, including having/being with kids. The *choice* (a word feminists love to bandy about) is *all yours*.
Equal rights is (or ought to be) about two things: reasonable options and the right to accept responsibility for exercising any of them. The problem with this article is that it fails to point that out in no uncertain terms. In fact, in some spots I catch the author trying to somehow deflect the "blame" onto men.
Well, no surprise there.
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me thoughts exactly. You choose your own path. That includes choosing and forming a plan with a mate that will divide up the parenting duties the way you want (or better yet the way both of you want). Easier said than done, obviously, but not impossible.
Also, we don't need laws telling employers to be more family friendly. Many have gotten the message via the job market. To attract and retain quality employees you have to provide more "perks" than the next employer. Most companies don't miss this cue. Those who do will pay the price via the market economy. They'll get the employees that were picked over by the more family friendly company.
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The other thing we don't need is the guvvamint telling us the value of any given job in the context of other jobs, especially with the intent of "equalizing" those choices.
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I didn't read all of this stuff, but what caught my attention was the once-again repeated cliche that men shy away from strong women. I'm sure you can find men who do, of course, but as a generalization it's total bull.
In my experience, what most men don't like is _pushy_ women. Most guys don't like pushy men either - pushy _people_ are a pain in the ass. And pushy ain't the same thing as strong.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 24, @12:04AM EST (#6)
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Greystoke,
Man, I'm with you. that one REALLY pushes my "hot button".
That whole, "men are "scared" of, or don't like, a "strong" woman" s#!t.
What, I ask, is the definition of a "strong woman", according to feminists and like minded women?
That's a rhetorical question, of course.
When alot of women and feminists say "Men are intimidated by strong women", It's code for; "Men won't let us push them around, dominate them control them, abuse them, and lead them around on a doggie-leash! those awful, awful men!"
If THAT'S the definition of a "strong woman", then yeah, I DON'T like them. And I'm glad to hear MOST men don't.
Why is it we never hear the REVERSE of that 'accusation'? "Women don't like "strong men"".
Well, In my expirience feminists HATE men who stand up for their gender, their morals, beliefes, principals and truth. And most of all feminists hate men who stand up for THEMSELVES.
THAT is what a "STRONG MAN" does. Feminists HATE men like that. Ergo, they don't like "strong men".
So, WHO hates WHO'S gender when they are strong...?
To drive my point home, Anyone think this may be why the feminists and like-minded women are so afraid of Men's activists speaking out against (millitant) feminism?
A "strong woman" isn't one who beats the crap out of men. To use violence simply to get your way makes you WEAK, "ladies" not strong. It makes you selfish and cowardly. Not strong.
To be truly 'strong' You must be willing to give of yourself, be RESPONSIBLE for your own actions and desisions. And most of all to be truly 'strong', You cannot HATE.
Mother Tereasa was strong. The virgin Mary was strong. Women like Trudy and Wendy are strong. LadyRivka is strong. My mother is strong.
The feminists Hate, decieve, lie, sell out, destroy families and have set a country in to a 'civil cold war' between genders. All the while useing decent women, men, even CHILDREN as pawns and sheilds. Hideing behind a wall of self serving "laws" that have NO reason for being in a free country.
These women, that the media so proudly hail as "strong women", Barbra Boxer, Hillary Clinton, Naomi Wolf, Pat Schroder, Barbara Striesand, "Hanoi" Jane Fonda, Etc. Are the Haters, and the preditors of human decencey.
They use media and law to strike down thier "enemies" from an anonymous distance, like the cowardly sniper, simply for their gender alone.
These women are not "strong". they are WEAK.
Their hatred and deviousness and contempt for men, RIVALS, no, SURPASSES that of the Nazis.
True strength comes from, not how many people you can "Knock down", but how many people you can HELP UP. ALL people not just of your own "kind".
True strength can EASILY stand in the gail winds of truth. Yet the feminists FEAR the truth.
You Feminists are not strong. You women that THINK like the feminists are not strong.
Any TRUELY strong woman stands on her OWN merrits and accomplishments. Not the weakness and failure of others.
Do men hate "strong women"?
no.
Most men I know, includeing myself, CRAVE truely
strong women.
Too bad there are far too few.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka-hey!"
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Can't have it all? Family and a career too?
Welcome to the club. We men have been doing it since the dawn of time.
Oh, but I forgot - it's not about equal rights, it's about special rights.
How silly of me. And we EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEvil men haven't rolled right over and capitulated toot sweet.
How thoughtless and cruel of us. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 24, @10:50PM EST (#8)
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GONZO!
Great to have you back! I was wondering where you went.
(Haven't heared from Thomas and Letslockandload, lately, either, come to think of it...)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka-hey"
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Haven't heared from Thomas and Letslockandload, lately, either, come to think of it
Just returned from a break. It's good to be back.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 29, @01:00PM EST (#14)
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YAY! Thomas, you're back! \(^O^)/
I do remember you saying you were gonna be gone for a "couple of weeks". But then about a month went by...,
Anyway glad you're back.
Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 25, @12:29PM EST (#9)
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It really seems that you have had some pretty bad experiences with women in your life...sorry about that - you seem very bitter and angry. Who are these women you are referring to who want "special rights"? Do you even know what the word feminism means for most people today? It's about equal HUMAN rights, not men, not women, EVERYONE. These people who want "special" rights represent a small proportion of "feminists." You don't want to be labeled as a batterer just because some men batter? Well, I don't want to be berated on the internet because you've had some bad encounters with women in your life.
I'm so proud that you men have been juggling family and work since the beginning of time. Gee, you really deserve a pat on the back. But, traditionally, just who was watching those children while the hard-working men were struggling to balance work and family?
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It's postings like the above, by "Anonymous User on 02-10-25 13:29 EDT" that really bring home how far we have yet to go.
It writes: "Do you even know what the word feminism means for most people today? It's about equal HUMAN rights, not men, not women, EVERYONE."
The casual belief that feminism has something to do with equality is still out there in the general public. There are actually people who, after years of ms-information (and in spite of the facts), still believe that. (sigh)
Granted, a few of the earliest feminist writers wrote about women not always living off men, of men and women taking an equal share in the pleasures, rights, AND resposibilities of having and supporting a family.
These voices were very quickly silenced by main-stream feminism, of course. Since then it has been about 'having it all.'
Here's just one simple example (there are many more):
- Women asked for, and were granted, entry into the mostly-male work force. They have equal pay (thought they often don't want to do equal work).
- Men, instead of being welcomed and 'encouraged' to spend more time at home and with their children, have become more and more ostracised, villified and demonized. Men have virtually no rights when comes to home and family -- though they certainly shoulder most of the resposibilities.
Feminists who are considered to be the Great Guiding Lights of feminism have advocated genocide -- the killing of all men -- in their writings. This hate literature is currently available on bookshelves in most major book stores.
Dear Anonymous User, as an exercise to the reader, I would suggest that you go to your favourite search engine and do a search on the terms 'useful idiot' and 'feminism.'
Ragtime
The Uppity Wallet
The opinions expressed above are my own,
but you're welcome to adopt them.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 26, @12:24AM EST (#11)
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'Anonymous',
Ragtime is right.
However, I am not suprised that you believe that "feminism" is about equality between Women and Men. and I think you sincirely believe that.
I did too, at one time.
In the begining, feminism, truly WAS about equality between the sexes. Women, (like Susan B. Anthony, for instance) were RIGHT about many things, includeing 'Women's right to vote'.
And rather quickly (by historical standards) Women gained not only the right to vote but equality with Men on nearly, if not every, level.
This was done, I'd like to mention, by the hard work of both women AND men, who saw the system as truly faulty and un-fair to women as a whole.
Women would not have equality on ANY level if MEN had not agreed with the feminists of the time.
Around the time of the 1960s, however, a new crop of 'feminists' were emergeing.
While these "neo-feminists" still made SOME valid points about women's rights, etc, these "neo-feminists" had in their hearts something that the "origional feminists" did not. A deep-seated HATRED for all males. a hatred that continues to grow to this day.
As time passed these women, now known as 'militant-feminists', found their way into branches of government, the educational system, the legal system, the Arts and main-stream media. Through these means they convinced (and are STILL convincing) the culture that Women are still the "victims" of a "patrirachal" "misogynistic" society.
But I am amazed at how many people exept the term of "patrierchal society", with out even knowing it's definition. In a "patriarchal society" Women have no voice, They cannot get involved in public affairs and they certainly can not VOTE.
Therefore, by valid definition, we do NOT have anything even close to a "patriarchy".
As for the influence of "feminism" on society, now. As I said these millitant feminists control things like the main-stream media.
This sounds like 'paranoia', to many, but if one looks (objectively) at the facts one will see that it is indeed TRUE.
For example: The main-stream media withholds MANY MANY facts and information pretaining to Men's health.
As You may allready know, 'Anon.', October is "Breast cancer awareness month". The media has announced this a number of times and has done TONS of reports on breast cancer. But can you tell me what the month of September was? If you don't know, don't feel bad. MOST of America doesn't. It was 'Prostate cancer awareness month'.
No one, includeing people who visit this site, saw much, if anything at all, from the media on the subject of prostate cancer.
It is the same with Domestic violence.
Do you believe that it is Men and ONLY men who commit DV.? If you do, I'm not suprised.
Though study after study has been released by the F.B.I., The Colorado department of health, Hospitals, the Department of justice and many others showing that WOMEN commit domestic violence JUST AS OFTEN AS MEN, at EVERY LEVEL OF SEVERITY, The media simply has not and WILL NOT publish or report these proven facts.
The same 'tactic' is applied, by the media, in the case of child abuse.
While it is true that there are men who abuse children, (includeing sexually) once again, OBJECTIVE stats show it is WOMEN, not MEN who more often abuse children. And it is BOYS who are most often abused, not girls. This information, again, is supressed by our media.
The media is a propaganda tool for millitant feminists to use against men, in the EXACT same way it was used in Nazi-Germany against the Jewish people. As Ragtime stated, more than a few "influencial" feminists advocate "Genocide" of men.
This is not just 'ME' "saying things" to try to convice you of the very REAL problem faceing men today. If you do your "homework" you will find that what I, and others here, are telling you is indeed all too true.
So yes, You will find some "angry" men on this site. We have every right to be angry. Our civil and "Guaranteed" constitutional rights are being eroded and violated daily, By a government and court system sworn to up hold those very rights.
I am sorry if some of us may have offended you.
You are absolutely right, when you say "ALL women aren't bad." It is the ones who ARE "bad" that make us "angry". If you are not one of those "bad" women, then NONE of our anger is directed at you.
As far as the Gonzo kid is conserned, Yes, he comes off as "angry", 'but he's good people'. And yes, He probably HAS been hurt. God knows, so have I. Who hasn't, I guess. But neither he or any of the men who visit this site, includeing myself, HATE women. That is the primary difference between how "we" feel, act and "express" ourselves, and how the millitant-feminists do.
The millitant-feminists ARE our enemy.
The best way our 'enemy' can win against us, is to make us become like them.
The "feminists" use hate as their weapon. and thus far have used that weapon with horrific effectiveness.
But I know that I, other men and decent women, have an even MORE powerful weapon than the "feminists" have, it is 'the TRUTH'.
And one way or another the truth is ALWAYS revealed.
This case is NO different.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka-hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday October 30, @12:53PM EST (#15)
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ok...this will be the only thing I say since I see (and on the advice of ALL my friends, men and women) that there is no point in trying to give my point of view.
But I will just say this...no, I certainly do not believe that men are the only ones who commit domestic violence and I'm very sorry that you assumed that about me. I have been in a volunteer peer education group for 5 years, and we do acknowledge that men are beaten and raped as well. In fact, we have many brochures and videos that discuss men as victims. Violence is about power and control, and any human being can exert control over another.
So, yes, I have done my "homework," being a victim of domestic violence and educating others about this issue for years. Sure, I get angry as well, but I don't think the answer is to perpetuate the problem of placing blame on a whole group just because a portion of the group acts in a certain manner.
-KF
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I find it very strange for any one to say that feminism is about equal rights for men. The entire theory is based on the idea that men have ALL the rights and women are trying to gain equality. [feminism is basically a modified conflict theory with men at the top of instead of those with money.]
One of the first things that feminism examined was the bias of language. Words such as mailman, fireman and policeman were pointed at as inherently discrimitory by excluding women from the mental construct of these professions. I would like to point out how the FEMININism also falls into this category of forming a construct that excludes men from its theoretical lens on the simple basis of language. Feminist theory can NOT effectively examine any social role where women have power over men. Masculinist theory holds as its core the notion that there is no power structure but a power balance. Men have power and women have power. (Yes this is overly simplistic.)
Tony
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