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I found this q and a with a couple of smart cookies, and I thought it may be related to the given article. My thinking is these feminist institutions are running high and dry on excuses but likely want to keep their jobs. So they maybe radifying their movement to be "boy friendly" which Im very suspicious of. I think we should monitor this Gillian chick and watch for typical anit-male slants among other things.
If I'm not mistaken she is the same chick that lost a great deal of her "research" after getting $150 000 american to promote "girls are sucking in school" which started this whole thing. Hell; why not double your money right and start a "boys are sucking in school" campaign. Which I am all for but can we trust her to do it? Anything that comes out of a Feminists Yap should be double and triple checked.
You can guerantee a feminist approach to the problem thats for sure. And about the research she lost, well it countered (proved it wrong) her earlier research that stated "girls were sucking",(but weren't) but after all the advertising of the first report, the second report only recieved about $50. or something to promote. Im not sure if she is the one, Hoff Sommers is my source on it, hopefully it will surfice who it was that lost the "research" and started all the problems.
Q&A with Diana Furchtgott-Roth and Christine Stolba,
Authors of
The Feminist Dilemma
Q. What is the “feminist dilemma” you refer to in the book’s title?
A. The dilemma facing contemporary feminists is their unwillingness to recognize the success of American women—educationally, professionally, socially, and politically—because the future of feminist organizations depends on the continuing myth that women are victims. Now that equality of opportunity has been achieved, these women have redefined equality. Success is now defined by these contemporary feminists as equal outcomes—measured by statistical parity—and not as equality of opportunity. This is particularly true in the workplace and in schools.
Q. Why would feminists who have strived for women’s equality want to ignore the success of their movement?
A. There’s a difference between the original feminist movement and what it has become today. Feminists today are a special interest group, and like any special interest group, they pursue an agenda that will increase their influence and ensure their own organizational existence.
Q. What are some examples of feminists ignoring this success?
A. Equal pay for equal work has been the law of the land since passage of the Equal Pay Act in 1963. However, “pay equity” has been a frequent feminist rallying-cry in recent years. What feminists are really fighting for, under the guise of equal pay, is a policy that would give government bureaucrats the power to set wages—including artificially inflating wages in female-dominated professions. Unfortunately, states and countries that have enacted such policies find that they often end up harming the very women they meant to help, because faced with such restrictions, employers have shown that they will simply hire fewer women in the first place.
Feminist organizations have also encouraged the myth that American schools shortchange girls. In fact, women outperform men at nearly every level of education and earn more bachelor’s and master’s degrees than men.
And in our nation’s offices, claims about the prevalence of sexual harassment have created a climate in which even innocent jokes can lead to disciplinary action or firing. As we speak, feminist legal theorists want to broaden even further the definition of harassment to include vague and subjective claims.
Q. Most of us don’t follow the maneuverings of feminist organizations. Why should we be concerned about their activities? They aren’t harming anyone, right?
A. Wrong. Although many people might not be familiar with these feminist campaigns, they do have an effect on all Americans. For example, your tax dollars are being wasted on misguided “girl power” campaigns in our nation’s schools. Companies pay the costs of complying with burdensome government regulations, many of which originate from these feminist policies. Many feminist proposals, such as comparable worth, or government wage-setting that flies in the face of the laws of supply and demand, are economically unsound, and if enacted could threaten the economy.
In order to comply with Title IX of the Educational Amendments of 1972, many male athletes are unable to play sports in college. Hundreds of colleges and universities nationwide have cut male sports teams because of the feminist-inspired “proportionality test” enforced by the Office for Civil Rights at the Department of Education. The proportionality test insists that the most useful measurement of equality in college sports is statistical parity between men and women—despite strong evidence that more men than women prefer to play college sports.
Q. How successful can contemporary feminists be in achieving their agenda if, as you say, most women and men in this country do not share their goal of ensuring that the number of men equal the number of women in all areas of society?
A. Feminists are now achieving their agenda quietly, by using the regulatory power of the federal government to transform workplaces and classrooms into their vision of equality. Because they employ such tactics, the public is not often aware of the changes.
Q. How will we know when women have achieved equality?
A. Women have achieved equality of opportunity. The definition by contemporary feminists, that success is not equality of opportunity, but numerical parity for women and men in the educational and workplace arena, is false. In fact this definition rejects one of the hallmarks of our society: the ability to choose one’s own path.
In recognizing the right of women to make choices, for example, the choice to pursue a nursing career or to become a doctor, to train as an astronaut or to raise children at home, to be a secretary instead of a construction worker, feminists must admit that their goal—equal numbers of men and women in all areas of society—is not one that most women or men in this country share. While contemporary feminists have been very successful in convincing the public that women are victims of society-wide discrimination, the truth is that success for women should be measured not by equal numbers, but instead by equal opportunity.
—The AEI Press—
[Events] [Jobs/Internships] [Search] [Home]
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Dan Lynch
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Hey, things are so bad for the poor boys suffering under our feminist school system, I'll take help from where ever it comes -- even a feminist.
IF it's actually help... I wouldn't trust this woman as far as I could throw her. We're talking an extreme gender feminist here -- one who has preached victimization and the 'patriarchy' myth for years. And profited quite nicely from it, too, thankyaverramuch. She may just be using the current, albeit small, buzz about boys as an opportunity to advance destructive feminist ideology.
Whatever. The _good_ news here is that there IS a buzz, that these issues are actually being noticed and written about in main-stream media.
If it takes feminist posturing to bring men's/boy's issues to the public eye, so be it. A rather delicious irony, isn't it.
Ragtime
The opinions expressed in this posting are my own, but you're welcome to adopt them.
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by Anonymous User on Friday June 28, @07:39PM EST (#16)
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She may just be using the current, albeit small, buzz about boys as an opportunity to advance destructive feminist ideology.
This is exactly what the new tactics of radical feminism involve. They are literally looking for issues that negatively impact males and then coming up with fake pseudosolutions. This idea is to put a friendlier face on feminism. It is part of their strategy to hijack the men's movement. We have seen other forms of this like the fake International Men's Day forum that was nothing but another outlet for hostile feminist to bash men. We'll be seeing allot more of this in the near future.
Warble
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I don't trust her for a moment. If she's just trying to foist off more anti-male hatred with a front that's made to appeal to a modern audience, she's going to be disappointed.
We're wise to the evil known as feminism.
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The fact that Gillian is acknowledging that boys are suffering in school on one hand makes me feel that progress is being made. On the other hand I want to laugh at the fact she is so conviently recognizing a problem that the men's movement and authors such as Farrell and Sommers have been talking about for years. It is almost sad that she is applauded for saying the very thing that Ms. Sommers was booed for only a few months ago. My sneaking suspicion is that she wants to jump on the band wagon so that she, as a leader of the feminist movement, can control the public's knowledge and academic research of male issues.
Tony
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That is no "sneaking suspicion" Tony. It's very much a reality. That's what "Stiffed" was all about. Feminists using their media connections and power to snag what men's rights activists have been saying all along and then watering down with their own spin.
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Information on this organization and conference can be found here.
Of the six keynote speakers, one is Carol Gilligan, one is Anna Quindlen, and another is Kevin Jennings whose focus seems to be on Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender issues. Personally, I think that GLBT matters are extremely important, and GLBT folks suffer terrible discrimination, which should be eliminated. Nevertheless, the GLBT movement has been largely coopted by those who think, for instance, that compulsory female heterosexuality is a means used by the patriarchy to oppress all women. Let's just say that Jennings could be good; he could be terrible. But given the presence of Gilligan and Quindlen, I'm suspicious. And these three make up half of the keynote speakers.
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I looked deeper, and this conference is starting to look worse than a little suspicious. Take a gander at their reading list. It includes, "Teaching Boys To Become 'Gender Bi-lingual': A Challenge to Singe Sex Schools." In this book, the author, "Bednall challenges boys' schools to lead boys to an understanding of what 'it means to be female and hence enhance their capacity to co-operate, negotiate and share: it is a challenge for them to be human in its fullest and noblest sense.' Only through such understanding will males learn how to negotiate respectfully with female perceptions of the world and become 'gender bi-lingual'." This sure smacks of the same ol' same ol'.
Let's just say a great deal of suspicion is in order.
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by Anonymous User on Friday June 28, @07:42PM EST (#17)
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If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Then well it must be.....
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by Anonymous User on Friday June 28, @06:22AM EST (#5)
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Gilligan has *always* said that boys are doing poorly, and she has a remedy for it: we must raise boys like we raise girls. She is NOT a friend of men or boys, and believes that masculine socialization is the source of the problem, not the anti-male society we live in. Do not trust her!
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Anon is speaking the truth. This article is so sad. Not unlike marrying the same person who has abused your kids for 15 years...now they are the step-parent. Oh goody, now the abuser gets to discipline! Cryke!
The fems love to co-opt the pain of others. And why not? They don't really have much to do in the US now so they get upset about the Afghan women or now boys. We need men doing this work not women. Who was insane enough to invite this women to speak? There are so many loving, intelligent, and noted men who would have done an excellent job at this. Steve Biddulph and Michael Gurian come to mind.
We need to identify this step-parent as an abuser. Otherwise they will be free to march in and as anon says "Raise the boys just like girls." Good girls, I might add. We need to out these fems as having spent years favoring girls and therefore damaging boys. If we don't get this word out we are in trouble.
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Who was insane enough to invite this women to speak?
I wondered about this too. She probably wants feminists to control the movement that now seeks to help boys in order to twist it into something that will further crush them.
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Wasn't Gilligan the one who said that all heterosexual sex was rape? I'm not sure if it was Carol Gilligan or Catherine MacKinnon; but no matter who it was, I share everyone's else's view that anything feminazis spout should be thoroughly scrutinized.
I don't care how much they say they care about boys, every action they've ever taken in the past involved something that either helped out women or degraded men, and I have no reason to believe that anything they say or do is used for any other purpose. The proof is in the pudding, you could say.
You could also say it behooves me to ponder what, exactly, the genfems are trying to sneak past the Mens' Movement. A change of heart is never a sudden thing.
"Stereotypes are devices that save a biased person the trouble of learning."
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Feminists in general are trying to put a sugar coating on their hate. Back in the 60s and 70s, they'd declare, "All men are sexist pigs," and "All men are rapists." Now they carry on about how loving they are and how much they want to help men and boys who are also "suffering under the patriarchy."
If the problem, such as it might have existed, was the fault of "the patriarchy," it wouldn't have become so extreme once society started to adopt anti-male feminism. Note that the last time there was rough parity between men and women, in the student bodies of the nation's colleges and universities, was during the 1979-1980 academic year.
The underlying message is "Once our feminist matriarchy has gained full power, we'll take real good care of you." Uh, huh. They're not going to just go away, and they're as likely to abandon their hatred of men and boys as Adolf, Josef, and Heinrich were to abandon their hatred of Jews.
We can see about Gilligan over a bit of time, but we have to be vigilant. There's a high probability that she is just parading about in the empress's new clothes.
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I agree with this. But I also note that there are those in the men's rights movement, including Farrell, who do not disagree with the claim that we should stop socializing males into certain molds as a matter of *gender*, such as telling them it's their role to be protectors and breadwinners, to be chivalrous, to register for the draft, to not cry, to never play with dolls, etc. I agree with those who oppose the imposition of gender roles on people at an early age. Boys should have options just as girls have. What I mainly disagree with feminists about here is when they want to teach boys they are bad-natured and need to redeem themselves and/or act "like" girls (vs telling them they have the option to act how they want), etc. And I definitely agree that it is not feminists who should be spelling out how to raise boys. They've lied enough as it is and they're very disengenuous by snagging this issue from men's activists and pretending it's their turf with no acknowledgment to masculists at all.
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THE WOMAN IS A LYING WHORE!
Its that simple, she's looking to cash in and the obvious problem is boys and it has got so bad, even the FEMIFUKS can't deny it anymore.
So parents are upset and quite honeslty they should sue the hell out of the school boards for this.
This bitch is trying to jump on the band wagon and conveinantly put a spin on it Just as Marc said. I will not be nice about this. She is the fox guarding the hen house. And I can tell you right now she has nothing in common with Warren Farrell. The woman is going to raise boys not to be like girls, she is going to raise them to end up HATING THEMSELVES . Do you have any idea how destructive that is going to be. If you think the suicide rate is bad now, let me tell you if we don't jump on this somehow..
As for using the femifrauds to do our work, Im all for it. They have all the financial backing there is we should continue to critisize and ridicule them pointing out every minor detail they do. IF you raise a child to hate who he is the consequences are going to be astronomical not just for the child but for all of us.
She is going to raise these boys to end up having Schizophrenic Crackups because they are unable to identify with themselves. I am not bullshitting.
The feminists are in such denial as to their own forms of violence and abuse what makes anyone think they can do a better job is beyond me.
They have fucked all this up its time to pay the piper.
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Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Friday June 28, @07:53PM EST (#18)
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They have fucked all this up its time to pay the piper.
Dan. Anger is nice to get men motivated to take action. But please remember that some of us are trying to promote this site as a means of snagging new members into the men's movement.
I have signs that I'm putting up all over the place. When they come here and see this type of language they just leave. So please cool it my friend. There is allot happening right now and the tide is beginning to turn in our favor. These radical feminists can no longer suppress the truth. It is welling up in their face and the top is about to blow off the mountain…..I guarantee it.
Warble
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" It is welling up in their face and the top is about to blow off the mountain…..I guarantee it."
Well..... as long as you guarantee it.
I'll behave, for now.
But I'll tell you something, if it is like you said, dont let it get to your head the fight isnt over yet, we have to maintain.
They can soft soap me all they want, I'm not getting fooled again.
I know what she's up to and so do you.
Dan Lynch
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But I'll tell you something, if it is like you said, dont let it get to your head the fight isnt over yet, we have to maintain.
Oh no. I agree. This is going to be a long and sustained fight, and it is going to get "bloody" so to speak. However, the most important thing we can do now is put a friendly fun face on this to attract supporters. They don't even need to be activist. We just need to increase our numbers. And that is happening more every day.
In the next couple of weeks, it is hoped that a volley of over twenty lawsuits will help the cause. But even that will take time to develop. I expect that the news media will do everything in their power to suppress any significant masculist news and advances.
The word is that the feminists are already starting to get wind of these suits, and they are trying to sabotage the cause. But it is believed that a well thought out strategy will prevent their attacks from succeeding. You will hear more specifics in the next week or two.
Disclaimer: My statements are intended to be personal opinion, belief, sarcasm, or allegation.
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"The word is that the feminists are already starting to get wind of these suits, and they are trying to sabotage the cause. But it is believed that a well thought out strategy will prevent their attacks from succeeding. You will hear more specifics in the next week or two. "
Hell; I like you, in fact you can come over to my house and fuck my sister.
You know, I have given my advice on this group for a while now, dont get me wrong, I admire everything thats going on here. But I dont placate, the whore that this thread was originally about does not have my respect thats final. I am a good man, and I have stuck up for women on this site more than once. We are fighting an ideology not a "people", we are fighting lies and misinformation. So when I say its time to pay the piper its time their "real agenda" has been revealed. I happiliy promote women like Christine Stolba and Trudy W. Shuett. But you either know the truth or you don't. It is a major mistake if we fall into the same trap where our future is dependant upon "The Masculist Movement". We can work our jobs, we can tailor our clothes but we have to be open to the truth in fact we have to sink like a rock to find it. The truth will protect us all, we only need someone to find it.
In short I do this because I believe in it, I dont need a paycheck, I dont need a picture in a yearbook, all I need is to know Im getting the job done.
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Dan Lynch
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Dan, have you fallen out of love with Christine? My gosh, you didn't even emphasize her name.
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"Dan, have you fallen out of love with Christine? My gosh, you didn't even emphasize her name. :
How could I fall out of love with this face?
http://www.eppc.org/images/staff/largephoto/cslarg e.jpg
Not likely possible, Marc. :-)
Dan Lynch
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Here's that link for Dan. Truly a breathtakingly beautiful woman.
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I think if I was given the option between the lottery and kissing Christine Stolba, well, I would be going back to work on monday. Unless Christine Likes guys with lots of money. Maybe I can have my cake and eat it too. Now where did I leave my tickets I bought on saturday.
Dan Lynch
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These radical feminists can no longer suppress the truth. It is welling up in their face and the top is about to blow off the mountain…..I guarantee it.
YES!
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LIke I said, dont count your chickens to soon, remember whose guarding the hen house.
Its doesnt mean we can't play nice just means walk cautiously
Dan Lynch
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Absolutely right, Marc.
Faludi's book, and Gilligan's posturing, are all part of the "Save the Males" surge within gender feminism. It is nothing more than a tactical retreat of sorts. The guise is one of helping males become happier, more productive, more successful. The reality is that these are the same old gender theorists. Their solution to male unhappiness and suppression is simple--subsume your boys' spirit and conscience to the all-knowing gender theorist and they'll set him straight for you. Hey, he'll be so damned happy and free, he'll want to wear dresses and play with dolls. No kidding. It's what they're after, as any cursory perusal of their literature will show.
Truth is, these women hate men just as much as ever, and are now painted in a corner. They know this. Their lies exposed, they are now forced to change tactics and make an attempt at reaching fair-minded men and women. Once their agenda is exposed, though, it all evaporates into a puff of gender antagonism and social constructivism. So beware, fellas. This is not the champion we want. Stick to Schuett, McElroy, Hoff-Sommers, Koertge, Patai--that crowd is a lot more interested in our well-being, and our sons'.
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by Anonymous User on Friday June 28, @07:55PM EST (#19)
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Their lies exposed, they are now forced to change tactics and make an attempt at reaching fair-minded men and women.
Exactly, the whole dang thing is blowing up in their faces even as we speak.
Warble
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The real problem is that the only way the academia and the media see gender issues is though the feminist lens. It is basically impossible for them to see men as victims of social roles. Until there is a recognition that feminist theory fails when it attempts to example the male condition in society there will be little recognition of the male problems and even less done about it.
Tony
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"Until there is a recognition that feminist theory fails when it attempts to example the male condition in society there will be little recognition of the male problems and even less done about it.
Tony H "
Entirely my point. The gendernazis will always put a spin or slant on their research; their pyche' has become completely corrupt and biased. Everytime someone says well some feminist did this study etc ,,, ask if their was a clearer and more objective report. If they say "what do you mean?" Say "Well, she already said she was a feminist, so her posistion itself has already corrupted the data". This type of stuff will drive them under ground (as far as promoting themselves as feminists which is a major first step). I already know that feminists monitor this site for information and start to learn our tactics and work on responses in a more direct fashion before hand. If we maintain to the truth we will always have the upper hand and the support of the public.
All this tells me is feminists will find new and improved ways to counter and smother our objections of dissent. Be prepared for that repercussion.
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Dan Lynch
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I already know that feminists monitor this site for information and start to learn our tactics and work on responses in a more direct fashion before hand.
That is correct. They already have Scott on their hit list and they are collecting the names of every male they can from this site. Then they look for ways to single them out for an attack using a local NOW group. I know of men that are experiencing such attacks right now. The attacks that I've witnessed include professional attacks, media smearing, and hijacking email accounts to spread lies the person would never support. The radical feminists know the truth is painful, and they know the public is looking for a solution.
I talk to people all the time know that are looking for a way to fight back. I meet them everywhere including malls, airports, business, and the street. Radical feminist know this and they are fighting back with lies like there is nothing that can be done. Just tell people the truth. They will come around and join the cause.
Warble
Disclaimer: My statements are intended to be personal opinion, belief, sarcasm, or allegation.
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"Radical feminist know this and they are fighting back with lies like there is nothing that can be done. Just tell people the truth. They will come around and join the cause"
Agreed!
Dan Lynch
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btw, I didnt mean to sound like a jerk, I know we're on the same team.
Dan Lynch
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btw, I didnt mean to sound like a jerk, I know we're on the same team.
Naw. You? A jerk?!?!?! ;>)
Actually, we all know you better than that. That thought really never crossed my mind. What I'm actually concerned about is that I'm out every weekend putting up mensactivism.org signs with my kids. I just want to make a good impression when people visit the site. It looks like we are doing a pretty good job. I'm beginning to see new signatures.
B.T.W. We are noticing that the writing is improving all the time. Good job!
Disclaimer: My statements are intended to be personal opinion, belief, sarcasm, or allegation.
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"B.T.W. We are noticing that the writing is improving all the time. Good job! "
Thanks! That made my day.
Dan Lynch
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That's fantastic that you're doing that, Warble. I've got a mensactivism.org sticker on my vehicle and I hope that tells a few dozen or more people per day about it. But actively putting up signs with your kid, now THAT is cool.
Hey, I was reading old posts and I saw that at least once I accidentally called you "Marble." Ha. Pardon me for that.
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I accidentally called you "Marble."
Marble...warble....it all has the same effect. It keeps me anon.
Disclaimer: My statements are intended to be personal opinion, belief, sarcasm, or allegation.
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tony scribbles:
The real problem is that the only way the academia and the media see gender issues is though the feminist lens. It is basically impossible for them to see men as victims of social roles.
Quite. Indeed which experts do you think governments and education bureaucracies will turn to solve this new "gender problem"? The ones they use already, of course. The career feminists. How many masculists are employed as "curriculum development consultants" and the like?
Who better qualifed to solve the problem of boy's education than the experts with the score on the board? the same experts who obviously did such a great job at solving the problem of girls' education, of course.
Feminists aren't stupid and they are organizing to hijack the boys education reform movement already.
cheers,
sd
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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The underlying message is "Once our feminist matriarchy has gained full power, we'll take real good care of you." Uh, huh. They're not going to just go away, and they're as likely to abandon their hatred of men and boys as Adolf, Josef, and Heinrich were to abandon their hatred of Jews.
It's extremely interesting you mention that, because, at Wells College, the same extreme feminists who loathe men are also anti-Semites. In Women's Studies, they are taught about the evils of Jewishness and their conspiracy in "the patrarchy". "Patriarchy" stems, supposedly, from Greek and Hebrew sources...and guess who gets the butt of the hate at our college. Jewish girls. They drop out at twice the rate of others, and we have to keep our college's Hillel hush-hush. I got harassed a few times when I was looking into converting to Judaism in freshman year. I only personally know 2 Jewish girls who currently attend the college...most of the ones I have met have dropped out and enrolled in other colleges. Sad, huh?
And, yes, I see this as "keep the evil boys out of the pure, wonderful female-dominated schools" as well. Human beings are two-faced...when will people learn??
-Rivka
Learning to Adjust.
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Well I think that a true 'jewish patriarch' from whatever thousands of years ago would certainly get a kick out of our nice Jewish American Princesses. Lovingly referred to as japs. Once one of those get you by the balls you will be begging for a weekend seminar at a gendernazi getaway retreat. : )
btw I lived with a jewish girl for a long time, great girl, very loving and passionate. She told a couple of lies, but hey par for the course right.
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Dan Lynch
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It's always good to hear from you, LadyRivka.
It's extremely interesting you mention that, because, at Wells College, the same extreme feminists who loathe men are also anti-Semites.
I'm not surprised. There's a clear connection between feminism and racism, though I've generally found that any racism will do (anti-white if it works at the moment, anti-black if that will do, anti-Semite if you prefer...)
when will people learn??
I'm afraid the answer to your question may be, "Never." It just may not be in our nature to stop making the same mistakes. This is why I think that no system, be it libertarianism, capitalism, communism, fascism, or any other -ism will ever solve our problems. Whatever system we have, it will be implemented by very fallible humans. Personally, I suspect that the best we can do is a constitutional democracy with an economy based on capitalism and a constant engagement between government, industrialists, and common folk.
The fight will probably never end, so we might as well be true to our values and do our best to enjoy our endless striving
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Since we're on the subject of Gilligan, I do recommend reading her book "In a Different Voice."
I also recommend assuming she is sincere in what she says there. (I think she is.) There is a lot of insight in what she says about women and their perception of the world. She also shows maddening blindspots and internal contradictions. There were parts where I could only read a couple of pages then I'd have to put the book down and stew and argue with it in my head for a couple of days before I could pick it up again.
It could have been a great contribution to psychology if she hadn't been so vested in proving her thesis that femininity confers righteousness.
In any event, it will give you a much clearer idea of the kind of thinking we are dealing with.
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Here's an article on a talk given at the conference yesterday. It seems to show some promise.
The speaker commented on the "exodus of male teachers from elementary schools." I know many men who have been falsely accused by women, myself included. I wouldn't dream of teaching in an elementary school unless it resembled my second high school -- all boy students, all men teachers.
He also commented, "We've said to girls, 'Your chances in life are all about school.' We're not giving that same message to boys... We've given girls a lot of strong messages about what they can do, about how they can be anything they want to be. We haven't done a good job with boys." So sad and so true.
Let's just hope that he's on the level and is keeping an eye on things to help insure that the boys' rights movement doesn't get co-opted.
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