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Let me just say, as a husband and/or an acquaintance, Mr. Yates would not be my cup of tea. But I disagree that he bears some culpability for the murder of his children.
If anything he is guilty of not understanding the extent of his wife's illness; but how could he? I hate that this is being approached as a "women's" health issue and the label "postpartum." There is a lot of ignorance about mental illness. I think Mr. Yates did what he could to help his wife, but I think maybe he needed some support as well, counseling or something. I say this from experience - my former spouse is bipolar and perhaps not as sick as Mrs. Yates, but not at all well. I think this has devastated Mr. Yates, and that he feels he has failed not only his children, but his wife as well. He does not deserve being vilified by the media, in addition to everything else he is suffering.
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I must say, wiccid, your description of Russell Yates' situation is the most compassionate and fair that I've come across. Well put!
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I must say, wiccid, your description of Russell Yates' situation is the most compassionate and fair that I've come across. Well put!
Amen. Wiccid has gained purchase in my opinion as well. Thanks. He still should be examined and considered somehow. Court appointed psychological help and consideration would be a fair resolution for him to gain closure and would help us all to recognize a justice here. Ignoring him in my opinion is a loose end that would still endanger our society.
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Prosecution has already set him up as a tyrannical evil patriarch figure, I'm guessing so they can argue she did this out of revenge in her mental illness - the defense is going to use it further pretend her mental illness was made worse by evil ol' husband.
And, I'm sorry, if anyone leaves their children with someone who's attempted suicide more than once very recently, and who is on medication which makes them barely functioning, I do think said parent deserves to be charged with neglect, at the very least.
I don't think he should be charged with murder, nor is he responsible for their murders, but he didn't act as a responsible parent there.
Anyway, with the article... eh, it was better than most - not the best, by far, but better than most. I would disagree that her husband demanded more children. I would disagree she said she needed to punished one minute and then 'satan made me do it' at another.
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"And, I'm sorry, if anyone leaves their children with someone who's attempted suicide more than once very recently, and who is on medication which makes them barely functioning, I do think said parent deserves to be charged with neglect, at the very least.
I don't think he should be charged with murder, nor is he responsible for their murders, but he didn't act as a responsible parent there."
I don't think he was being neglectful. He had his mother coming in several hours a day to help out and take care of things while he was gone. There was only about an hour or so's window of opportunity for Mrs. Yates, between her husband leaving and her mother-in-law arriving. He probably thought "What can go wrong in an hour?" A lot, apparently; but how was he to know that.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @08:42AM EST (#5)
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I've said here before that I think Russell Yate's may well be guilty of poor judgement, but poor judgement is not the same as murder.
Oh, by the way, there are some who suspect that Russell himself was a victim of his wife's abuse. Has anyone explored that further?
Frank H
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I hadn't heard that. I believe they had a "traditional" marriage - he the head of the household and the breadwinner, she the homemaker. That's how he framed it in his testimony. I read that he said he was often frustrated with her inability to cope. But that does not make him an aider and abetter of his children's murder.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @12:45PM EST (#13)
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Someon else who visits here frequently contended that they recognized the pattern, having seen it from a distance before. I won't identify the originator, but perhaps they will offer to repeat their analysis.
Frank H
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There is a lot of ignorance about mental illness. I think Mr. Yates did what he could to help his wife, but I think maybe he needed some support as well, counseling or something. I say this from experience - my former spouse is bipolar and perhaps not as sick as Mrs. Yates, but not at all well.
What is worse is that Mr. Yates is willing to set himself up as the fall guy to get his wife off the hook. He has even said such in public. Mr. Yates is not doing the men’s movement any favors.
I also have a spouse that suffers from mental illness. She has had periods where she becomes extremely self destructive (it literally terrifies me), and what appears to me to be episodes of a psychosis or some other form of complete irrationality.
There have been times where I took my wife into an emergency room for help. What they did was make thinly veiled accusations of spousal abuse, and they tried to have me arrested on DV charges.
In addition, they would strip her and look for any injury to support their belief of abuse. It was a shear miracle that she didn't have a bruise from her violent preschool children. She almost always has some form of bruising from those children.
So, now when my wife overdoses on drugs, has a psychotic episode, or goes wild and attacks me, I simply run for cover and pray to God there isn’t an accident on her part while I am trying to flea.
I will not dial 911 and ask for help because I know there will most likely be false allegations and the police will arrest me simply because I am a man. Been there, done that. They are just too bigoted and don’t know it.
With this kind of climate I find myself praying to God that she doesn't die of a sleeping pill overdose. However, if she does, I only pray that it will be seen as a suicide. Further, the doctors cannot say they were never told of these incidences. And yes, trust me, I am out of there first chance I get. However, current CA laws have me legally trapped in this scenario. It is my worst nightmare. I provide this personal example only to demonstrate the hostility that is currently aimed against innocent men.
Now with this kind of hostile climate towards men, it is utterly absurd to expect that Mr. Yates is going to be able to get help for his wife. We see that he tried, we find that the medical community knew she was dangerous, we see that she attempted suicide, and now they want to charge (read scapegoat) Mr. Yates with being responsible.
Where in hell were the psychologist and psychiatrist who have the legal power to have the children removed from a dangerous home environment? Why didn't they give Mr. Yates a warning that the children would be removed if alternative care weren’t provided for the children? Why did the medical community give the green light repeatedly to Ms. Yates fitness as a mother? It is my belief that they did it because they are nothing short of incompetent or severely biased to the point of being incapable making professional decisions.
The idea that Mr. Yates had some power to protect the children from Mrs. Yates is ABSURD! Only the psychiatrists and psychologists have that kind of legal power. No husband has that kind of legal power.
If men had that kind of power, I would have had my wife taken care of long ago. Men do not have the power to get help for their wives when there is a psychological illness. I repeat, men cannot get help for their wives when there is a psychological emergency. Men are literally powerless.
The real question is why is the American public so willing to scapegoat Mr. Yates and leave the medical community blameless? It is an outrage that their doctors are able to avoid charges for severe medical neglect. Worse, I believe that organizations like N.O.W. are so busy vilifying Mr. Yates, that they are giving a blanket tacit endorsement of this clear case medical neglect.
In effect, I believe that N.O.W. is intentionally sending a message that if the medical community systematically fails to protect children from a dangerous women, that they will work to establish a public legal policy of scapegoating the husband/boyfriend. In this way, N.O.W. is able to further thier agenda of systematically criminalizing men.
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"I repeat, men cannot get help for their wives when there is a psychological emergency. Men are literally powerless."
Technically, it is very difficult for anyone, male or female, to get help for a mentally ill spouse. Even if you can get a hospital to take them, the costs are astronomical. And aside from the 72 hour hold, you can't force someone to stay in a mental health facility against their will, even if they need it.
Even in today's society of "drive-thru" divorces, you'll find people who will criticize you for abandoning a mentally ill spouse. My ex was hostile to professional help and would not take prescribed meds, though the street variety suited him. Yet I still have family members who will approach me at funerals and weddings to remind me that it was supposed to be "till death did we part."
Mr. Warble, I hope you are getting some sort of counseling or therapy; because whether or not you are planning to continue to support your wife through her mental illness, I assure you that you need it.
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Mr. Warble, I hope you are getting some sort of counseling or therapy; because whether or not you are planning to continue to support your wife through her mental illness, I assure you that you need it.
The psychological and psychiatry community was very helpful up to a point. That point is when the false accusations, lies, and false charges of my violent (not mentally ill) wife start to fly. Then, for whatever reason, the man is systematically scapegoated and if possible criminalized.
So, I actually found it more helpful to recognize that they are ill equipped for whatever reason and move on. Best decision I ever made. I shouldn't be made to feel bad when I have done nothing wrong.
Now unless God moves the hearts of the legislatures to reintroduce the due process protections in the laws for males... I'm gone. It is just a matter of timing now.
I won't do jail time because of a rogue legislature that hates men and a wife that is violent. She knows what she is doing. It is time for the feminist to stop teaching women to be mentally ill victims when they are violent and accept their responsibility for their forms of violence in this culture.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @06:58PM EST (#19)
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If you don't like her "violence" then just leave or do you like punching her around too much in retaliation? That line about the violent pre-schoolers leaving bruises on your wife was really a bit of a stretch wasn't it?
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If you don't like her "violence" then just leave or do you like punching her around too much in retaliation? That line about the violent pre-schoolers leaving bruises on your wife was really a bit of a stretch wasn't it?
Yeah, pheminist dogma does state that women are genetically incapable of violence and lying. You sound like one of their theologians.
A different pheminist troll, or the same? Either way, a serious case of penis-envy. Not sure if it's because she doesn't have one - or can't get one.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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Warble I hope you work out a solution to the horrible and dangerous situation you are in.
And you are completely correct, as only you should know too well, that a man who complains about his wife's irrational behavior is viewed by the authorities as being an instigator of domestic abuse and HE will be charged or at least investigated.
I am really concerned for your safety in this situation and hope you do more than pray to god for deliverance and protection. You have to do something.
How about recording her violent episodes on a video camera to backup you claims. A picture is worth a thousand words you know.
Please, do something affirmative about your wife and about yourself.
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How about recording her violent episodes on a video camera to backup you claims. A picture is worth a thousand words you know.
Excellent idea. This option has not been available to me in the past partly due to financial reasons, and partly due to other factors. Pulling out a camera while trying to get out of the way of flying objects is kind of difficult. The other issue is that at the first sign of being held responsible, she becomes completely rational. So, either she'll break the camera, or she'll become rational when being video taped.
Further, I have considered a hidden camera. However, it is a felony to make such a recording without the consent of all parties. I tried to get consent by arguing that we should monitor the children. She got pretty mad.
Funny thing, on the day that I was ready walk, I consulted an attorney. That was when I learned how dangerous that would have been due to the current CA State laws. It would have most certainly cost me jail time, but that is another story. All I have to do is wait a few more months and I can leave without doing jail time.
Then of course a new round of false allegations will fly while she systematically manipulates the courts to financially destroy me. What fun! I just luv the new laws our wise legislatures have put in place to protect innocent females from evil males such as myself.
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"Funny thing, on the day that I was ready walk, I consulted an attorney. That was when I learned how dangerous that would have been due to the current CA State laws. It would have most certainly cost me jail time, but that is another story. All I have to do is wait a few more months and I can leave without doing jail time."
How would it have cost you jail time? I live in California, I know many divorced couples and excepting one case where the wife tried to run over the husband with the family car, I don't of know any situation wherein one or the other faced jail time for leaving their spouse.
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How would it have cost you jail time? I live in California, I know many divorced couples and excepting one case where the wife tried to run over the husband with the family car, I don't of know any situation wherein one or the other faced jail time for leaving their spouse.
In CA when a domestic partner makes false allegations of DV, there are several mechanisms that can be used by the DA to disqualify the partners’ testimony.
For example, when the husband leaves the wife the DA is able to claim he is exerting financial duress to change her testimony. It doesn't matter that he is leaving for his own safety. Such arguments are usually ignored because of the new laws. It is assumed that women cannot physically harm men, and they assume that women are nonviolent.
So, when the man leaves, the DA disqualifies the violent woman’s testimony and is able to admit hearsay as evidence against you. If you are able to get your wife to testify that she lied in the police report, don't leave. Otherwise, you will do jail time when the bigoted officer explains why you were arrested.
It won't matter that your wife was overdosed on drugs, violent, imposing self-injury, and lying in the police report. Nope. Her testimony was disqualified because you left. All that will matter is that the police officer saw a nonviolent battered woman. All of the other facts will be disqualified. That is how you do automatic jail time when you leave your violent wife.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @03:11PM EST (#16)
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i hope all the young men reading this board hark carefully to mr warble's situation
marriage strips you of rights and personal security while conferring only responisbilities
proceed at your own risk
Cap'n Steubing
The Love Boat
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Anyone considering marriage, male or female, should carefully consider to whom they are being hitched. Of course on a men's site the men's misfortunes are stressed, but in my situation I am the one paying off my ex-husband's debts and with the responsibilities of raising our daughter. Anyone can get burned by Cupid.
This is not in anyway to discourage marriage. It's a wonderful institution but too many people enter into it with the wrong partner and/or the wrong expectations.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @07:15PM EST (#20)
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Mr Warble is bullshitting. There is nothing stopping this man from leaving his wife other than his need to keep assaulting her. I don't believe that such a "deranged" woman would be able to teach pre-schoolers without any of her co-workers or the parents of the kids noticing and Mr Warble's claim of pre-schoolers leaving bruises on his wife sounds so much like the excuses wife-bashers give that I can't believe no one has clued into it.
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Mr Warble is bullshitting. There is nothing stopping this man from leaving his wife other than his need to keep assaulting her. I don't believe that such a "deranged" woman would be able to teach pre-schoolers without any of her co-workers or the parents of the kids noticing and Mr Warble's claim of pre-schoolers leaving bruises on his wife sounds so much like the excuses wife-bashers give that I can't believe no one has clued into it.
Warble, I believe you've been accused of being a liar. This troll has made an assertation.
Got some facts to go with that assertation, chicky-poo? Or just the usual pheminist male-bashing?
Rhetorical question. It is the latter, of course.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @08:21PM EST (#24)
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well, i don't know mr warble, that is true
hold on a sec
warble warble warble warble warble
ok
but i know lot o' generic mr warbles
didn't grow up in laurel canyon
stood up for a man once who, out of kindness and loyalty, later remained married to a mentally ill woman
no it ain't black n white
the cap'n
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Just because you have had bad experiences with your spouse doesn't mean women as a whole are vindictive and don't play fair where children are involved.
Wiccid2 make a good point. I do need to be more careful in qualifying my generalizations. So, I will provide some statistics.
First note that for three decades now, women as a general group have been gaining power. They have had numerous laws passed to empower them and provide their brand of equality. Now let’s make an objective examination of the facts as exposed by credible studies, and lets consider how women as a group are impacting men. Then I will allow the reader to draw their own conclusion on whether there is a major crisis that involves the systematic criminalization of men.
Consider just the false allegation of child abuse in divorse cases. Studies show that up to 10% of the divorce cases involve allegations of child abuse. Of those allegations, up to 72% of them are false. Now if we add allegations of DV we can expect similar rates. Also, add to that changes in the marital laws to include marital rape. Now we have a realistic scenario where 30% of all divorces involve some form of a false allegation. Of those, we can expect that 70% of the allegations are false.
(source) http://www.familylawcentre.com/ccbalaabuse.html#N_ 4_
Further, when polled, four out of every five women believe they should lie in a divorce proceeding even if it can result is a jail sentence for the falsely accused. That is a very alarming statistic.
(Sources)
http://christianparty.net/dna.htm
http://christianparty.net/surveyresultswomen.htm
Finally, consider these alarming facts that have resulted from the modern women’s movement of the last 30 years:
*American men constitute one third of the men in the world who are behind bars.
*No country's incarceration rate increased as rapidly as the US rate increased between 1985 and 1995, while many decreased.
*More Americans are imprisoned than the total number of citizens imprisoned in 57 different countries around the world.
*The US incarceration rate is TWENTY TIMES (20x) & our violent crime rates are 5 times (5x) higher than those of Japan.
*If the US incarceration rate were equivalent to Japan, there would be 1.9 million fewer Americans in prisons.
*If the US incarceration rate were commensurate with our 5x higher crime rates than many countries, there would be 1.3 million fewer Americans in prisons.
*The convictions of most of those EXTRA 1.3 million Americans were based on false allegations filed by women against men.
(Source) http://christianparty.net/incarceration.htm
Now I am just getting started. There is a ton of evidence piling up against the feminist women in our American culture, and I can obtain similar statistics from other sources.
For these reasons, I believe it is proper to characterize American women in this general way until the majority of American women stop telling lies, making false accusations, ruining marriages, destroying the lives of innocent males, and destroying the lives of their children.
However, I do acknowledge that a small percentage of American women have integrity and should not be painted in this way. I suggest that they start getting very vocal if they want to save our Nation from an increasingly escalating disaster.
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There is nothing stopping this man from leaving his wife other than his need to keep assaulting her.
Guilty until proven innocent, and when proven innocent the man is still guilty. This ignorant statement says it all. LOL! It really is quite predictable.
I don't believe that such a "deranged" woman would be able to teach pre-schoolers without any of her co-workers or the parents of the kids noticing and Mr Warble's claim of pre-schoolers leaving bruises on his wife sounds so much like the excuses wife-bashers give that I can't believe no one has clued into it.
Of course not! Forgive me for painting a picture where a 4-6 year old child can have temper tantrums that involve the kicking and screaming at a preschool teacher. That could never happen. Nope a teacher never tries to calm a child that is distressed and obtain bruises in the process. Therefore, it must have been that evil man battering his wife. Throw the man in jail!
Worse, this violent women is teaching pre-schoolers? Why how could that be? What she is professional at work and violent at home? Only a man can go to work, be professional, and then go home to beat his wife. Of course...why how could I have forgoten myself. Women are incapable of violence, verbal abuse, and drug abuse. They are the angels of the world here to save men while incarcerating them with their false allegations.
LOL! What a hoot! I luv trolls! Bring it on!
Obviously, this bigoted troll illustrates the epitome of what is wrong with feminism. It really does get quite old and predictable after a while. Been there, done that. Yawn! Try and come up with something original next time. The brainwashing tripe that the super-fems spew really is quite predictable and boring.
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...stood up for a man once who, out of kindness and loyalty, later remained married to a mentally ill woman
no it ain't black n white
Ten years ago I would have dismissed the current situation as just a trial. No big deal. I would not have had to worry about false allegations and what not. All of that has changed now.
At the time, we still had the practice of innocent until proven guilty. Now, because of the dramatic changes in the laws, I find myself rethinking the whole marriage practice.
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You are turning into the counterpart to a feminist. I never cared for feminists, I certainly won't care for their cohorts in sexism.
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You are turning into the counterpart to a feminist. I never cared for feminists, I certainly won't care for their cohorts in sexism.
Men of necessity must be forced to realize that we are in a literal war against militant feminist. The objective of the feminist is to use the legal systems to inflict violence upon American men. With 1.3 million men in jail because of false accusations, I'd say that men are getting their butts kicked.
My question is, what will it take to obtain justice for this slaughter of innocent men by the feminist and their lies? Shall we pray and utter a few nice words on their behalf? Hardly! This is hardball. Don't play if your not willing to face the facts. We need prayer, actions, facts, and if necessary, the tools of propaganda. Deal.
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[Mental note: thank god for normal men who don't think the world and women are out to get them. Reminder to be extra nice to husband.]
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[Mental note: thank god for normal men who don't think the world and women are out to get them. Reminder to be extra nice to husband.]
LOL. I was wondering how long it would take for Wiccid to become exposed as a poser. Note the condescending tone of Wiccid's statement which results from being confronted with documented facts and the stark reality of statistics.
I believe that what Wiccid is doing is diminishing the relative intrinsic worth of human when it is a man. Further, it appears this pattern presents itself when Wiccid is confronted with a harsh reality supported by documentation and facts.
However, I still welcome Wiccid's comments as stimulating and as at times having good insight. Hint. Lighten up Wiccid. I am just responding to a discussion in this forum.
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Why am I a poser? Because I don't think the world is as black and white as you like to see it?
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Why am I a poser? Because I don't think the world is as black and white as you like to see it?
It isn't surprising to see a feminist objecting to a presentation of facts as they relate to men's issues with personal attacks.
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I am not a feminist. I am not a masculist either. I want the same things for my boys that I do my girl - a solid chance at happiness. "Women are manipulative backstabbers" is the same stupidity as "men are pondscum." Some women are manipulative, some men are pondscum. And visa-versa.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday March 05, @06:43PM EST (#18)
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What a load of rot. Do you expect Mr Yates to lie simply to please the men's movement?
Don't tell me police discriminate against male partners of mentally ill people please.
I was with a manic/depressive man for years and I never got any help from the police or anyone else.
Not only was he violent to me when he was ill but he quite often threatened mass killings. No one helped me when I reported this either and I'm a female.
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What a load of rot. Do you expect Mr Yates to lie simply to please the men's movement?
The sorry thing is that pheminists have brainwashed him into believing her vicious nature was his fault.
Don't tell me police discriminate against male partners of mentally ill people please.
Of course not. Your mind is made up, far be it from me to confuse it with facts.
I was with a manic/depressive man for years and I never got any help from the police or anyone else.
Not only was he violent to me when he was ill but he quite often threatened mass killings. No one helped me when I reported this either and I'm a female.
Then you were never serious about it. If you didn't get help you either didn't try for it, or just plain liked it.
Another pheminist troll.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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In response to the "Troll"-
I have indeed seen people (Men and Women, btw) who were perfect citizens at work, then evil, abusive monsters at home. Destructive to their families, their homes, themselves. Alcohol, mental illness, what have you. Both men And women. Not one, not the other. Both.
Men and women are both prone to their problems. Women aren't freed of all responsibility because they're mentally ill- our society only acts like they are. I know for a fact that a man isn't. An abusive man (no matter what) will be held accountable for his crimes against the people in his life. Whether he's an alcoholic, mentally ill, drug dependant, whatever. Why should women be freed of their responsibility to society, and those they 'love' because they have a different physiology? But it happens. Abusive mothers who are mentally ill or substance abusing regularly keep their children, even though the environment with the father would be healthier. Abusive mothers who kill their children should Not be freed.
Perhaps I'm rambling (don't bother flaming about it, I already realize it), but I have seen men in Warble's situation. No escape because of the laws surrounding him- designed to entrap men, keeping them from "Shirking their responsibilities". Why should Warble be forced to stay with his mentally ill wife? He shouldn't. She should be treated for her illness, and he should be allowed to live in safety.
I'm sure that if Mr.Warble were Ms.Warble, and it wasn't a wife, but a husband, causing the problems, few would have issue with "her" removing herself from the situation. Go on. Ask yourself. Would a cop Honestly hold a woman in an abusive situation, or listen to her abuser's allegations that she abused him?
No.
But Warble is a Mr., and the law is no longer interested in protecting individuals with that prefix.
I wish you strength, Warble. I honestly do.
Women aren't better than men.
Men aren't better than women.
We're just different. Deal.
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Not only was he violent to me when he was ill but he quite often threatened mass killings. No one helped me when I reported this either and I'm a female.
Obviously, this troll never tried to get a restraining order, which is easily obtained ex-parte. So, it is most likely a fake posting by a feminist that hates being told the truth. This pattern will increase as the men's movement continues to gain momentum.
However, I know a dear female friend at work who was terrified of her husband. After listening to the accounts of endless emotional abuse I have no doubt but that she was a victim. In her case the laws were quite beneficial in changing her life. So, I know that women can get help to escape if that is necessary.
Nobody is discounting genuine cases where a domestic partner is genuinely abused. The problem is that we have 1.3 million men in prison because of false accusations. No other civilized country in the world has this crisis.
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"The problem is that we have 1.3 million men in prison because of false accusations."
Where does this figure come from?
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