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All I have to say is, wow. Let boys be themselves, have male role models, etc. We don't need people telling us that boys and girls are the same. They aren't.
I've been in so many arguments with girls at my school who firmly bleieve that all sexual and gener traits are socially constructed, and that boys would act like girls if there were no patriarchy. I can't defend myself. It's like I'm arguing religion with a Christian Fundamentalist. How do I fight back against people who say our brain patterns are socially constructed?
"Female men's activist" is not an oxymoron.
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Wouldn't wanting boys to act like girls kind of defeat the point of not stereotyping?
My only beef with "boys act this way / girls act that way" studies (or observations) seem to be only out to prove that something is WRONG with the other gender, or a couple of members thereof. If a guy does want to spend more time with his children (ie, acting maternal) it's not right. If a girl is bad at English (she's supposed to be bad at math, not english) it's not right.
Anyway, I did like the article, and think that a bit more effort towards making young men NOT feel like they are all violent sex-crazed [or at least, no more so than girls] maniacs wouldn't exactly hurt.
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Yes, expecting boys to act like girls, not only is refuted by the arguments against stereotyping but is further refuted by our very biology itself, the fact that girls often complain of not being able to find a real, or even a good, man, and frankly I'd like to point out that there were no female volunteers trudging up the stairs of the WTC debacle. Had those men been conditioned to respect in the first instance to protect their own families first, I doubt they would have climbed so far to save so many people that they didn't consider part of their immediate families. Onward, though I appreciate your limited support for "a bit more" effort to improve the lot of boys, may I point out that when a "guy does want to spend more time with his children" it is not necessarily a maternal act but more likely a paternal act? Raising children to become good people is a two part effort - maternal and paternal - and should be served fully by both parties.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 17, @05:34AM EST (#6)
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Don’t reply to your own posts, hun. Sweetie.
“It is my belief that there is an archetypal dark conspiracy between male power figures and the feminist revolution. Men with power and poorly defined role modeling are engaged to retain their powers by enlisting the femme to combat any attempts to overthrow their autocracies….”
That is not a “belief,” mon frer, nor do conspiracies need be conscious to achieve effect. “Beliefs” don’t leave marks on bodies, souls in cages, or holes in masculine generations.
The Witch of the West props up the decaying paternal. Wasteland.
It'll last just as long as we let it.
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I thought that I would be assailed for "conspiracy" thoughts and beliefs. Thanks for the input. It will inspire me to continue the essays on that subject. Maybe the corrupt patria and matria won't last if we don't let it. Then the question is "how is it to be corrected?" I had an encounter with a fellow dissident and was surprised by my intuitive recommendation that if we were to save the world it would begin with his attention to the proper guidance for his young son. Then my dog sneaked behind him and pissed on his leg. And to my further surprise he was gracious enough to dismiss the ambush. Now that is masculine grace! I am a veteran and so were my ancestors for generations from at least the American Revolution and I have surmised that part of the damage from war is the destruction of the link between father and son. This was restricted to limited sections of the populace until we were gifted by total World War which destroyed not one but two successive entire generations of fathers and sons relationships. The femme failed to rise to the occasion and recognize the needs of the returning veterans and without grace has hurled society headlong into the unrecognized historical source of the destruction of previous civilizations which I am convinced is unbridled feminism and the depleted patria. Witness ENRON and all. This leads me to recognize the Bible as a source of patriarchal wisdom when it depicts woman as the original cohort of the demon. I am not by any means a religious fundamentalist but, in context, the Bible is beginning to reveal some important truths. Those old guys were from successive generations of tribal behaviour and it was their responsibility to provide wisdom so that the tribe would continue to prosper. It isn't a stretch to suggest that their writings were intended in allegory to provide the same guidance to future generations. It was their job and they came from a long line of practitioners. Makes sense to me. There are many decent men in the world yet they haven't been able to gain sufficient purchase to turn things around on a global scale, as yet. Perhaps if we are able to continue to strengthen their efforts and dismiss those who fail to promote values above the self interest, in time, we will see a peaceful world. On balance there is a need to support those members of the femme who truly love, respect and submit to those few good men who carry on the struggle. I won't see it in my life time, sadly. The same rules of war that have stood in time since Sun Tzu apply to our struggle to release the prisoners of self interest. Organization, discipline, and information will empower the ranks of those committed to this effort. This site is an asset. There are others. Enlist your brothers, and sisters, dismiss from support any site that encourages the flawed dialogue and march onward to victory! Hoo Haa!
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by Anonymous User on Sunday February 17, @05:18PM EST (#8)
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Hi Hunny:
“I had an encounter with a fellow dissident and was surprised by my intuitive recommendation that if we were to save the world it would begin with his attention to the proper guidance for his young son. Then my dog sneaked behind him and pissed on his leg.”
And they say there’s no Dog.
That’s called synchronic validation, but Rover would have just said “Right On!” if he had the phonemes and chords (and maybe a few lyrics).
Whoops, I forgot. Science long ago declared that nothing in the universe has sentience except for human beings. How could I be so stupid?
Taking Back the Son is indeed what the Bible chiefly is about, because organized males wresting the conditioning and control of boys away from females is the incipient act of male revolution that began “patriarchy,” and in a sense, masculinity itself. The Abraham/Isaac story is the centerpiece of the Old Testament, as it encapsulates the break from blood-expiation under the matriarchates. Note the intervention of the “archangel,” the representative of masculine spiritus, in this "story."
Not only has our generation of Western men failed, by our own cowardice, to protect and support boys, but we have chucked them straight into the arms of the Witch. Male “leadership” has funded and supported this madness, usually by codification, coercion, and brutality -- for such an occult alliance yields power power power.
The Old Testament documents the emergence of masculinity (the “patriarchs”) from matriarchal servitude – in which sonship, like maleness, was theretofore effectively “owned” by the feminine. Said ownership was assumed, and included frequent blood sacrifice of males – typically boys -- by collective female fiat, whether under queenship, priestesshood, or the kind of “collective authority” still fully observable amongst female primates in the wild.
The Bible is chock full of lessons for modern men about their psycho-social origins. It should not be clung to in fundamentalist fashion, though, but instead studied in context with the three-thousand-odd years of “patriarchal” documentation that preceded it, and the eighteen hundred years that followed it. Then the true visage of the beast you wish to tackle will emerge.
Before you raise the sword to the Witch and her Tyrannos, be sure it is full keen.
If God-Dog didn’t get the message across to your "fellow-dissident" buddy the first time – that “if we were to save the world it would begin with his attention to the proper guidance for his young son” – then your buddy is gonna get pissed on until he Gets It.
Just like the rest of us.
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Have you any literature or sites that would help support this theory? I am blown away by your post that supports my original idea. Ok, it must be out there somewhere else besides my mind and yours. So where? Or are we alone? Can I be in your army? This Frodo is headed for Mordor and the ring is a wedding ring and it is going back to the fire it was created in. While the rest of the men's activists do battle on the plains, we must complete our mission to the very core of evil, eh, Samwise???
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A return to patriarchy is NOT equality. I don't like the "malebashing" that abounds in today's society, and I want the world to be a less hostile place for my boys, but not at the expense of my daughter. Just to set the record straight. Are you arguing for biblical style male domination, or a place where both male and female children can grow up with equal and quality educational and career opportunities?
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If you are sincere in your effort to argue against the premise that "all sexual and gender traits are socially constructed, and that boys would act like girls if there were no patriarchy" perhaps I may help. You might begin with the converse argument which states: "all sexual and gender traits are socially constructed and that girls would act like boys if there were no matriarchy" You may then inquire how they assume that no patriarchy is a viable solution anymore than no matriarchy is a viable solution. I suspect that these girls have been fed the evil premise that it is patriarchy which is bad for the world. Might I point out that there are no written histories of matriarchies and as such those societies were doomed to the failure of repeating their mistakes on a greater social level. Without written history social progress was limited to word of mouth which is notoriously flawed in its replications. Onward, when arguing with Christian Fundamentalists we often find them using bad faith bargaining techniques in an attempt to simply wear down the resistance of their quary. Do not engage argument with people who are not prepared to discuss issues on balance. They must recognize facts and submit their arguments to revision as such. If they do not then they are not bargaining in good faith. Simply smile, say "you're wrong" and walk away. They are not worth your time and effort. If they are sincere in their attempt to persuade you then they must bargain in good faith. Respect yourself and your opinions and do not permit them to intimidate you. There are also a number of good treatises on the 'net that will support your premise. If you will insert "Gender traits social or biological?" into a search engine you will be armed with an amazing array of informations. Just one is http://www.chaparraltree.com/raq/whatis.shtml
You go, girl!
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I am an American product of precisely these issues. From the matriarchs who intimidated my mother and father with the threat of lost trust fund support should they not "get rid of the bastard", to a foster father severely abused by a misandral mother and conditioned by service on the front lines of WWII, to my ex-wife who aborted our child in the spirit of "A woman's right to choose" environment and then divorced me as I had hoped after that irresponsible, despiccable and "A woman has the right to change her mind" wedding bargain. I have spent my life dragging along in a world that did not have a place for me, a world predisposed to my liability and expendability as a male and futile attempts to remain true to myself as a man by what standards I might divine from any sources available, all of which have left me wondering if it is at all possible to find the affection and emotional support that I've never understood nor experienced. May I take this moment to offer a perspective that may lead to a more efficient disposal of the myriad tasks at hand to envision a world where men might perform as the effective duty bound patria that history has long defined? It is my belief that there is an archetypal dark conspiracy between male power figures and the feminist revolution. Men with power and poorly defined role modeling are engaged to retain their powers by enlisting the femme to combat any attempts to overthrow their autocracies by the one true threat to those stations, which I believe to be other men. Without a focused effort to educate the men of power and to evoke a greater good from their hearts and minds we are doomed to schlog on through the eternal muck of rhetorical argument and berserker tactics. The adage "A good man is hard to find" cannot stand and still expect our civilization to prosper and progress. More than any other mission to save the world from the pervasive social failures is that which defines, implements and recognizes the greater potentials of the male character. Otherwise the all powerful biology which rules us all will simply reply "Nuts to them all."
Edmond Clay
As a footnote, each of the above statements deserves a separate thesis, I have condensed as best I might for the sake of brevity and focus.
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Sometime I feel like the only person in the world who wants men and women to be different, and knows that they are. When people say that the genders are the same they are focusing on sterotypes and not real issues. It is proven scienticlly that the genders are different, and guess what I am proud to be a man! I don't know anything about trucks, I think porn is a useless waste of time and untimitly degrading and I love my girl friend. Whom I WANT TO BE FEMALE AND I DON'T WANT TO TRY AND ACT LIKE MY GENDER!
Steven
P.S. If anyone reads this and think that I have a girlfriend who is submissive and emotional. Well, let me clear things up:-) We are both emotional people and my girlfriend has a punch that would make WWF wrestler look like a pansy.
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Oh by the way. Loved the Lord of the Rings reference. Very enlightening.
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I'm trying to understand your side of this issue, because you sound well versed in what you know, but I can't follow you. So maybe for those of us who don't have a dictionary close by and move too fast in life to want to read pages worth of words in order to discover what can be said in a sentence or two.
::smiles:: Steven
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