|
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have quite a bit to say about this and the Yates case (over 1,300 words, in fact). But you'll read all about it on Tuesday when my next ifeminists.com column appears.
Suffice it to say for now that the Andrea Yates postpartum depression defense is apparently going to do for murder by women what the Lorena Bobbitt defense did for penis chopping.
Expect to see more and more of these types of stories in the news...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Suffice it to say for now that the Andrea Yates postpartum depression defense is apparently going to do for murder by women what the Lorena Bobbitt defense did for penis chopping.
I agree. To me she just sounded insane, and using suicide as a way to get out is kind of a way to try and hide the evidence (b/c she KNOWS sh'es guilty).
"Female men's activist" is not an oxymoron.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All of this business of not holding women responsible for their actions is like the flip side of an interview with one of Iran's leading mullahs soon after the revolution there. Iran's new rulers were trying to get the former shah back. A television journalist, I don't remember which one, was interviewing one of the head mullahs and asked him what they would do if they got ahold of the ex-shah.
The answer: "We would give him a fair trial and execute him."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Call me crazy, but my wife is a medical student and a mother (making me a father), and I'm very sceptical of anyone stating that there is no such thing as postpartum depression. In fact, I've heard of/read studies to show that it is something that men suffer from, as well, and have read such things (I believe) in other men's rights publications as evidence that men have emotions, too. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, here, just wondering if anyone has any statistics regarding the PPD phenomenon and the supposed nonexistence of it. I'm not currently convinced, but I am willing to BE convinced.
The largest reason I say this is that I have, personally, experience PPD. Just a scant two or three months after the birth of my daughter, my wife started getting depressed and I had a full blown depressive breakdown. Of course, I also suffered from nesting, bizarre food cravings, heartburn, mood swings, and other pregnancy related phenomenon during the pregnancy. I am the one who informed her she was pregnant, before symptoms, the gender of our child before tests, and could predict hearburn and other symptoms before she displayed any signs or voiced complaint because I had them, too. I know that sounds weird, but I've heard of it happening in many cases.
Anyway, this is all a sidenote. I think the REALLY relevant thing here, for me, is not that there is or is not postpartum depression, but that it is a legal defense allowed to women without a comparable defense towards men, and that is just wrong. I know that if, during that time in my life, I had gone nuts from the depression and attacked/killed my wife, it wouldn't have mattered that I had a diagnosable clinical depression because my wife is considered more valuable than I to society.
I've sometimes wondered if (and this is no defense, just a curiosity) the "value" of women stems from an ancient biological programming based upon the relative scarcity of ovum compared the mass production of spermatozoa, or the reproductive systems involved (women producing a limited and finite amount of eggs and no longer being able to produce children during pregnancy vs. men's virtually unliimited amount of sperm and continual reproductive ability). If so, then wouldn't such a mindset qualify as legitimately "primitive"? Just my thought.
Credendo Vides
(By believing, one sees)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Call me crazy, but my wife is a medical student and a mother (making me a father), and I'm very sceptical of anyone stating that there is no such thing as postpartum depression.
No one has made this claim. My claim is that it doesn't absolve one of responsibility for one's actions. Likewise, most research on postpartum depression (and especially on postpartum psychosis) demonstrates that the sufferer usually commits suicide, not murder.
Anyway, this is all a sidenote. I think the REALLY relevant thing here, for me, is not that there is or is not postpartum depression, but that it is a legal defense allowed to women without a comparable defense towards men, and that is just wrong.
Exactly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I didn't mean to imply that you, yourself, made this claim. Sorry if it came across this way. What I was responding to was in the opening article comments...
Here is another article about using the clinically unproven postpartum depression syndrome as a defense in a murder case. [emphasis mine]
This statement implies, almost directly states, that there is no evidence to support postpartum depression.
I'm seriously not trying to be argumentative here. If there is such evidence, I would truly like to see it to better arm myself for my defense as a man.
Credendo Vides
(By believing, one sees)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I didn't mean to imply that you, yourself, made this claim. Sorry if it came across this way. What I was responding to was in the opening article comments...
Gotcha. After I posted, I realized that my wording may not have been the most diplomatic. I didn't intend it to read that way. :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Okay. So, we both agree that we didn't mean to offend or attack each other, but were giving points in a peaceful manner. Hmmm. I bet THAT won't get quoted on any militant feminist boards. ;)
Credendo Vides
(By believing, one sees)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry that you misinterpreted the phrase, "not clinically proven," to mean that there is no such thing as depressive episodes after the birth of a child.
My meaning was meant to show that there is varying reasons given by the medical community as to the causes for this depression. Some authorities state that it is the result of a hormonal imbalance caused by the pregnancy itself and others say it is a normal mood swing caused by the life changing stress of parenthood.
We all are subject to various degrees of depression caused by significant high impact stresses we all have to face. The death of a loved one or parent, loss of a job, coping with an illness, making excellent grades in school are all examples of stresses that can cause females and males to exhibit the same symptoms as the "baby blues" syndrome to one degree or another.
The point is that I did not say there is no such thing as post partum depression, I only implied that there is no authoritative medical consensus identifying post partum depression in women as a unique psychological malady with exactly known and identified biological and/or emotional factors that would be a legitimate ironclad defense in a criminal prosecution; "she did the crime because of a biological problem she didn't have any personal control over therefore there is no guilt."
A source backing up my contention that you can pull up on the net is at:
a quote taken from this paper is below
http://www.obgyn.net/femalepatient/default.asp?pag e=leopold
There are medical studies available stating that the specific causes of this syndrome have not unequivocally been identified or proven.
quote:
EMOTIONAL/HORMONAL CONSIDERATIONS
"Multiple investigations into the etiology ( branch of medicine that deals with the causes or origins of disease) of postpartum depression have not (sic) reached a consensus. The aforementioned risk factors increase stress, and have been postulated as psychological factors leading to depression. Some psychologists have also ascribed the etiology of postpartum depression as inherent to the patient's psychological construct."
In conclusion, yes a depression of varying degrees euphemistically called the "baby blues" can be caused by the birth of a child but there is no conclusive clinical evidence that this is a unique depression specifically caused by a hormonial imbalance in women directly linked to the biology of the pregnancy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for clearing that up, Luek, and thanks for the reference. It's a start. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and I apologize for the misinterpretation. Thanks again, friend.
Credendo Vides
(By believing, one sees)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If women's violence can be attributed to hormones, and can successfully be used as a legal defense, why have no men tried to use the same defense? (At least, I haven't heard of any.)
Consider this: How many times have you heard men's violence attributed to testosterone? Probably more times than you can count. I know I have. Hell, just tune in to Judge Judy once in a while and you'll hear her bash men constantly, refering to their testosterone as though it's a bad thing.
Postpartum depression and PMS are hormonal problems, right? Well if that's the case, why can't a violent man make the claim that he couldn't control his actions because of testosterone? Doesn't it fall in the same category? If women's violence can be attributed to an over-, or under-, abundance of estrogen (whichever the case may be), then isn't it logical to conclude that men's violence can be attributed to testosterone?
Has this been tried in court? I'd be very interested in seeing whether or not this kind of defense would be successful. Ultimately, I would hope that it would NOT be successful, simply because it would take away from a man being responsible for his actions. (Just like I hate to hear about women getting away with murder because of PMS, etc...) But it would be very interesting to see the reactions of feminists when their own type of argument is used by a man, and successfully at that! I can only imagine the uproar it would cause.
"Oh, but it's not the same because....." I can hear them say even now.
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Funny you should mention Judge "Phooey" Judy napnip.
Maybe her little dog and pony show should be listed on the Media Watch page?
"Hell, just tune in to Judge Judy once in a while and you'll hear her bash men constantly, refering to their testosterone as though it's a bad thing."
The perpetually misandric Judge Judy is living proof of the adage "more harm is caused by the bozos who wear black robes than by the bozos who wear white ones!"
She is an infected wart on the ass of the US judiciary. Women should be outraged that a cretin like her is on TV representing them as the paradigm of female judges.
|
|
|
|
|
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
|
