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I hate to asy it, but most kids need a father figure around to grow up properly. I wasn't very fond of my dad growing up, but that's because we were like two north poles of magnets- almost the same personality, everything. But now, as a college student living away from home, I can see he's more or less the yang to my mother's yin. When my mom is stressed about something, he takes the same problem and laughs at it. Conversely, he worries himself sick about some things my mom couldn't give a hoot about. My dad is MUCH less serious than my mom, but when you get on his nerves, YOU GET ON HIS NERVES. My mom tends to get depressed; my dad gets angry. Period.
And a quote from the link about the Men's Movement Site List (I think):
[One or two good groups and people thrown in with piles of slop.]
I AM NOT A PILE OF SLOP!!! And neither are YOU fine gentlemen!!!!!! As for her, I don't know...
I support Bush's actions in this department. Maybe we should tell these people to get a life, becuase next thing you know, femi-Nazi's will be joining the ranks of conspiracy theorists.
L.R.
"Female men's activist" is not an oxymoron.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 03, @09:15PM EST (#2)
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Hiya Lady Rivka:
Thank you for your nice comments to us men :)
Not all feminist are feminazi's of course. Not even NOW members. I went to the Ms. Magazine board today, and read some of it for about an hour. I couldn't find the topic I orginally went there for ( FrankH or someone had mentioned a plot to write bad reviews about "Spreading Misandry" even if they had not read the book), so I just read the topics that were discussed there.
Anyway, they had a debate about something and they mentioned how wrong it was to call any feminist a "feminazi". You see, occording to them, Nazi's were all about power and killing, and feminism is all about activism and consciousness- raising, and forcing social change.
And I thought to myself, that since feminists of the NOW type don't seem to care just HOW they acheive their goals-- always rushing legislation and litigation to intrude into everyone's private lives-- that feminazi is indeed appropriate as a way to describe the dominant feminist-socialist-victimology paradigm. Of course they might night be about the building of any ovens, but the political mechanisms they are building will eventually be used for that purpose by someone-- mark my words.
Remo
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 03, @09:20PM EST (#3)
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Ok, ok. Next time, I will use a SPELL check. "Night", should be "not" and "occording" should be "according".
Remo the Bad Grammarian Barbarian
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"I am a member of the Association for Research
on Mothering, which operates out of York University in Toronto, Canada."
-- Trish Wilson
Oh geez, this radical is associated with my university. :( Did I mention that my school is renowned for having the largest Women's Studies department in the country?
You need your beets -- you recycle, recycle!
Don't eat your beets -- recycle, recycle!
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Anyway, they had a debate about something and they mentioned how wrong it was to call any feminist a "feminazi". You see, occording to them, Nazi's were all about power and killing, and feminism is all about activism and consciousness- raising, and forcing social change.
Hey, Remo. They stole that discussion from ifeminists.com. :) Several of us were discussing on the ifeminists BB the overuse of the term "Nazi" to describe anyone who disagrees with one's beliefs. The use of "Nazi" to describe anyone but Hitler's minions belittles the lives of the people who were murdered by him, became the consensus opinion (and it's sometimes rare to have a consensus opinion on ifeminists.com!) :)
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 03, @09:56PM EST (#5)
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Nightmist:
Thank you. And I will think about what you said. However, "feminazi" isn't the exact same word as "nazi", nor are the two words from in the same time period. And the similarities! In many ways radical feminists are fascistic/authoritarian in their beliefs, some of them probably would like to see all men dead (e.g. the SCUM manifesto) , and, as I pointed out -- their political project has given the Gov't tons of power, and seems likely to give it tons more. I can't think of many differences between radical gender feminists and Nazis except that the Nazis tried to commit genocide on the Jews. However, some of the so-called "feminazis" (very few) seem to want to do the same thing.
So what am I to call them? :(
Remo
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by Marc Angelucci on Thursday January 03, @10:16PM EST (#6)
(User #61 Info)
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I'd say some of them have political agendas that are comparable to Nazis. And I don't have a problem with the term "feminazi" per se. But I still prefer to call them gender feminists. "Feminazis" is rhetorical and can hurt our cause when used in the wrong context by making us sound reactionary and juvenile. They got away with that because men weren't organized enough to counter their giant falsehood factory. but we have tremendous opposition and must maintain dignity to really get somewhere. As the masculist movement grows, they'll call us something similar ("macunazi", perhaps?). And I think we're best not dropping to their level by emphasizing rhetoric over intelligent discourse.
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Marc has a point. We have to worry about appearances. Nevertheless, if we are going to speak English, the awkward term "femifascist" is accurate.
From my Merriam-Webster dictionary:
fascist
2: A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.
Gender feminists fit the definition.
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Yes and no.
To me it is an organized push for Gynocracy. Whether the means of production is owned by the state or by the private sector through use of military power is only the economic face of a clearly totalitarian regime.
It can hardly be fascist in any traditional sense of the word. It is wholly unlikely that a Gynocracy could come to exist through the shear force of a "male dominated" military.
The closest kind of other regime would be an Oligarchy and this would be indicated in an organized movement's attempts to seize control of the wealth of the nation(men's incomes), and then use that growing wealth to take more and more wealth from the men and start or increase the campaign putting more both male and female gender feminists in power. Then passing more and more amendments to the constitution that slowly exclude men from the decision making process altogether.
Canada has become an embryonic police state. It has been gestating for a long time now. Our judges are appointed not elected, our prime minister is created through vote by the party members of the party in power.
Our military is a joke, and we have no ability to defend ourselves as country and no legal right to do so as private citizens. Canada's armed forces are world renowned as peace keepers (a police force), and only a growing police state like Canada can produce this kind of military entity, as it takes years of experience to get that kind of know-how.
We have a formal very secret judicial society in this country thanks to the Young Offenders Act. It is a very large part of the judiciary and completely hidden from public view. The gender feminist dominated Liberal Party of Canada then brought into existence an entity called the Family Responsibilities Office. This omnipotent office has the power to seize complete control of a man's financial resources, credit rating, drivers license, property, bank accounts, and freedom of movement.
Where children are involved, the entire system is secret, and it becomes illegal to disclose the legal proceedings of these two offices.
You really should alert your president and congress to what is happening up here as we share a very large border with your country.
This Nation is becoming a terrorist haven where the victims are men and the perpetrators are women. If half the population of this country (all its men) is unsafe in its own land, then how can we guarantee that the other half won't interfere, overtly or through omission, with "your" land. As the power of gender feminist terrorism grows in this country, you can expect this expertise to be exported for profit. It may be hard to accept, but in a society like ours, as long as gender feminists are in power they will tend to view men attacking other men as "just a typically moronic male thing"; How, then, can these feminists claim to really care all that much about missing a few stupid male terrorists on-route to kill a bunch of other males (misogynists, of course, aren't all men misogynists?) in the USA?
Be aware!!
Young Offenders are not sincerely accountable for their actions and their actions are not the subject of public knowledge. As such this makes them ideal candidates for all manner of concerted manipulation by adults, other children, and by interest groups - from gender feminist mothers at the very least to female terrorists or female members of terrorist groups at the extreme. The mechanism is profoundly simple. Mother gets child support payments from dad; She tells junior or little miss that if they don't do as they are told, then she will spend their daddy's payments on "good shoes", and "proper clothing", lots of veggies and quality meats like liver, kidneys, brains, tripe, etc. for supper, send them to schools that wear uniforms, make them take courses at school that they can't stand, move to more expensive house with a big mortgage that sucks up daddy's support payments, so there will be less money to spend, and all of it quite legal on the surface. In fact super-legal as how could the child lodge a legitimate complaint seriously when these kinds of complaints are the stuff of childhood to begin with . She could also imply that would get no desert, or no trips to the mall, cut of the cable, internet, and make them do lots of homework on special projects - on and on etc. etc. Just think of all of the "good-for-you-things" that one parent would have liked to force on you as a child but the other parent vetoed on your behalf and saved you a lot of grief in the process allowing you to grow up normally as a result.
The children will cooperate with the mother in the vast majority of cases. They can then used as mules and bullies and courriers.
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I'm sending the following to Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor:
Elaine Chao, Secretary
U.S. Department of Labor
200 Constitution Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20210
Dear Ms. Secretary Chao,
It is my understanding that the Bush administration intends to close a number of offices of the Women’s Bureau of the Department of Labor. I am writing this letter to express my strong support for this closure. My motivation for this support is simple: the Women’s Bureau provides support for women while there is no equivalent office in support of men.
There are specific initiatives currently undertaken by the Women’s Bureau that are especially one-sided. The collaboration with NASA that encourages girls to study and consider careers in information technology, math, science and engineering, while worthwhile when considered in isolation, discriminates against boys in education because there is no balancing program to improve boys’ academic performance in their traditionally weak areas: reading and language arts. Further, there are many programs offered by other organizations with the same goal. The Women’s Bureau program is redundant. The non-traditional occupations program, too, is one-sided. There is no equivalent program to encourage men to explore non-traditional careers such as nursing. This is an initiative that is better undertaken by the private sector, and there should be no public funding provided.
The federal government has established many programs designed to improve the condition of women in America without establishing equivalent or balancing programs for men. Reducing the one-sidedness of public support for only one gender is a positive step toward gender equality and toward shrinking government. Again, I urge you to move forward with the closure of those Women’s Bureau offices that you have targeted, and I would encourage you, also, to consider downsizing the programs I have mentioned.
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The problem with using the word "nazi" is that it has the potential to dilute the atrocities that happened during the Holocaust. But the reason we are using the term nazi is to relate the hatred that the Nazi regime radiated. The term femnazi is used to create the analogy between the hatred the Nazis felt for groups of people and the hatred that some feminists feel for men.
(Note: This is rough idea of how Spreading Misandry defines its use of nazi and I feel it fits well here.)
Tony H
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In many ways radical feminists are fascistic/authoritarian in their beliefs, some of them probably would like to see all men dead (e.g. the SCUM manifesto)...
I've read a lot of commentary at this forum on how feminists hate men and want to crush us underfoot and so forth. Not to make waves, but I actually don't believe that the majority of active, vocal feminists are out to stomp on men - intentionally, that is. I think it would be more accurate to say that the majority of feminists focus more or less exclusively on women as they go about rewriting the rules, and when only one gender is taken into consideration when the rules are being made, the other gender is bound to suffer. But again, this has more to do with ignorance than hatred. Ultimately, I don't think most feminists believe that it is even possible to "crush" men because they have male power so exaggerated in their minds that the best they're probably hoping for is equality. That's another reason why they've done the damage they've done - they don't know their own strength, and as a result, they're not controlling it.
I just think that what we're really up against here, where most feminists are concerned, is ignorance and paranoia - not actual hatred. On the other hand, of course, the results of ignorance and paranoia can add up to pretty much the same thing as hatred, and so I suppose it doesn't make much of a difference in that sense.
Ultimately, though, as another poster said, it's important for the men's movement not to discredit ourselves by firing off similarly paranoid rhetoric in the tradition of all the feminist Chicken Littles. I'm sorry, but if you go around crying that men are falling prey to evil feminists, most people will not take you seriously.
And I do believe that some of the basic issues the men's movement needs to address and correct actually have their roots in pre-feminist times, by the way. That is - a lot of it stems from time-honored yet repressive gender roles and stereotypes which the feminists did not actually create, but merely took advantage of.
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-- is that you call them 'femelitists'.
That's where the parallels between them and the nazis really originate from, after all -- their common belief in elitism. Racial elitism in the one case, and gender elitism in the other.
Ack!
Non Illegitimi Carborundum, and KOT!
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"So what am I to call them? :("
Politicians.
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LOL. I had a good laugh at this:
"You see, (a)ccording to them, Nazi's were all about power and killing, and feminism is all about activism and consciousness- raising, and forcing social change."
Feminists are about forcing social change, but not about power? LOL - How is that done without power?
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by Anonymous User on Friday January 04, @01:04AM EST (#11)
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I am a member of the Association for Research
on Mothering, which operates out of York University in Toronto, Canada."
-- Trish Wilson
Oh geez, this radical is associated with my university. :( Did I mention that my school is renowned for having the largest Women's Studies department in the country?
The largest Women's Studies department in CANADA?!! Canada is one of four countries ( New Zealand, Great Britain, Australia are the others) that are probably even more matriarchal then the USA-- having taken our feminists bad ideas and pushed them into political systems that are already socialist. I truly do pity the men who live in Canada.
Oh my brother, how you suffer! I can only tip my cap to you (well, I would if I wore one ) and wish you well, courageous hero!
And the above is only a slight exaggeration of my feelings for the plight of Canadian males...
Remo
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Oh, dear. You're in a lot of trouble.
And I should cut the "feminazi" thing out- I'm just in the habit of using it behind my gender/separatist feminist classmates' backs for admittedly ad hominem purposes. I, too, have a seething pot of anger within me that gets ignited by what passes for education these days, and what nonsense other women, I mean other people, will believe.
Also, I have yet to meet a person who is neutral in the so-called "culture wars". Just a thought.
"Female men's activist" is not an oxymoron.
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