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A few final snide remarks? This article is dripping with misandry and self-agrandizement. I sincerely hope that her poor judgement in the column that got this group's attention is the one that triggered her departure. She may be the first feminist "journalist" to feel what many pro-masculine journalists have felt for some time.
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I sent the following to the Washington Post and cc'd to Mann herself:
I just want to take a minute to let the leadership at the Washington Post know how pleased I am that Judy Mann will no longer be publishing her column here. Her attitudes on gender equality are completely unacceptable to the men's community as she has demonstrated her misandry in her column of December 19, 2001. She reinforces this in her farewell column. Note especially her inference in paragraph three that men make up the "warrior class." It would be useful for Mann to read her history books and review the biographies of Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, and every female member of Congress who voted in favor of World Wars I and II and Operations Desert Storm and Enduring Freedom. She should consider also the continuing feminist campaign for women to be part of military combat operations. She claims many firsts, among them the disabling of female circumcision in Egypt, yet she totally ignored male circumcision, a barbaric practice that is practiced in most communities of the United States.
The Washington Post will be more readable without Judy Mann, a better newspaper and a better barometer of public issues. I wish Judy all the best in her newfound condition of anonymity.
I just wanted to let them know that I think this is a GOOD thing for the paper.
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I couldn't resist being as snide as she was....
-----
So long.
Too bad you can't even get the facts straight in your farewell column, though. *EVERYBODY* knows that the journalism profession is female-dominated these days. *EVERYBODY.* I know. I'm a member of what you call the profession to which "many are called and few are chosen." That's bunk as well. Anyone can be a journalist these days. All you need to do is look good and spew hatred of men.
Likewise, there's no such thing as "the warrior class." Again, you blame men for society's ills while attempting to shrug off any evil women have perpetrated over the centuries. Believe me, there's a lot of it. I'd list some of it, but I know it would be lost on you. Plus, I'd be typing for years. You think women aren't being represented in the media? Please! Women are *too much* represented in the media these days. Look at Hallmark and American Greetings, full of nothing but hate and bigotry toward men. Likewise the mainstream (and much of the alternative) press. Look at all the "special" publications newspapers are putting out these days dedicated exclusively to women. Look at the advertising industry, and how every single ad appearing on television these days is either extremely pro-woman, extremely anti-male, or both.
Get over yourself, lady. I realize you wanted a retrospective, reflective, "my way" piece for your finale, but misandrists like yourself really don't deserve it.
Oh, and a few other things:
Every single one of the "firsts" you list in your column have turned out to be either mistakes or *very* bad for society at large. No. 1 was your insistence that girls were being treated unfairly in the classroom. Bunk. Ever actually looked at test scores broken down by gender? It's BOYS who are getting the shaft. Christina Hoff Sommers has well-documented this phenomenon. Of course, you've already demonstrated your uncaring nature toward boys, considering that you decry "female genital mutilation," but have never mentioned a word about the horrific commonplace practice of male circumcision, even though it occurs every day on our own soil. And you believe the Taliban treats only women badly? How would you like to be murdered because you are male and a potential enemy of the Taliban? Or conscripted to fight in a war at 11 years of age, as boys in Afghanistan were? Again, you portray men as perps and women as victims, when the truth is so much larger than that.
You're a bigot, Judy Mann. Pure and simple.
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Amen.
This is good news. By the tone of her last column it appears she was fired. Yes. Bless the post. Maybe the fems are not as insulated as they used to be. Let's keep those cards and letters flowing! She is right that 50% of the writers should be female. However, people such as herself, who spread hatred should be disqualified.
Happy new year.
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By the tone of her last column it appears she was fired.
Hmmm. I'm wondering what leads you to that, Tom. I didn't see it, so perhaps I missed it.
She is right that 50% of the writers should be female.
No, whoever is qualified enough and talented enough to write should be writers. Let's leave affirmative action out the door. Also, you should know that the majority of journalists these days are female.
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What I was trying to say Nightmist was that 50% would be fine but that the more important variable was that the writer either man or woman should not be hateful.
I have no idea if she was fired or not....her column just seemed bitter and self-congratulatory and this seemed consonant with a typical reaction one might expect to being dismissed.
I didn't know that more than 50% of journalists were women. Thanks for that data!
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What I was trying to say Nightmist was that 50% would be fine but that the more important variable was that the writer either man or woman should not be hateful.
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. :)
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I wonder how many men must have cancelled their subscriptions for that to happen. ;)
There is no question she was fired. Not only is it evident in the "I will leave on my own terms" tone (as mentioned above), but also in the fact that she mentions at one point that the Washington Post was a paper that HAD allowed for a wide range of viewpoints. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but consider how different (and less hostile)it would sound if she had substituted HAD with HAS. To me, and again, I might be reading to much into that one line, it sounds like she is taking a subtle potshot at her (former) bosses. I think the line is somewhere near the top of the article, in the first paragraph.
Anyway, we still have other battles to fight. For instance, Michele Landsberg at the Toronto Star has been writing Mann's kind of articles long before the latter even learned how to type. The sad thing is that Landsberg writes for Canada's most widely read newspaper. Check out her recent columns at www.thestar.com; go under "Star Columnists" and click on her name.
You need your beets -- you recycle, recycle!
Don't eat your beets -- recycle, recycle!
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I have bookmarked her section of the Star.
Maybe AFG can use some help?
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Taken from the article:
"Women are a majority in the United States. By rights, in a democracy, we should occupy 50 percent of the slots on the op-ed pages of America's newspapers. We should occupy 50 percent of the top editorships in newspapers."
How come they never ask to be 50% of the prison population? 50% of NPC's? I think I know why.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 30, @09:56AM EST (#23)
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Ms Landsberg definatly makes Judy Mann look like a caring old grandmother.
Yep, its very easy to see that Ms. Landsberg has spent literally years and years of her life doing nothing but hating men, and bashing them every step of the way. Also, from her age I can easily see she's been at it since Judy was a cute lil tot. So yes, some do wish us ill. And Ms. Landsberg is one of them.
Remo
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"Maybe AFG can use some help?"
Yes, thank you Donald.
You need your beets -- you recycle, recycle!
Don't eat your beets -- recycle, recycle!
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Mars here, reporting for duty!
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It's interesting that Mann argues for proportional representation in her swan song article in the Washington Post; I wonder what's behind this. It's almost as if she's suggesting that her departure from the post is part of some statistically significant trend of under-representation of women journalists in mainstream media. There may be something to this; after all, if significant numbers of them are misanrists who insist on communicating such views in their journalistic writing, they may also find themselves looking for work as misandry becomes increasingly on a par with misogyny and racism in the public's mind.
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There may be something to this; after all, if significant numbers of them are misanrists who insist on communicating such views in their journalistic writing, they may also find themselves looking for work as misandry becomes increasingly on a par with misogyny and racism in the public's mind.
Indeed, Mars. What caught me by surprise was the bitching feminists starting doing about a "lack of" female commentary on Operation Enduring Freedom after the 9/11 attacks. Never mind that women are the majority in journalism these days. It's not enough. Once men start getting attention via the media, they automatically start whining about a lack of female commentary (regardless of how much female commentary there actually is).
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Would it be unkind to suggest that they want the cushy jobs not the front line in the trenches work? They surely don't crave the police beat doing the gruesome murder and mayhem reports. Now I could easily be mistaken here, but I don't recall news reports showing too many women reporters out there diving for cover in Afghanistan. I mean that stuff is hell on the finger nails and $100.00 hairdos. Not to mention panty hose $800 dollar dresses. What about those high heels - you know? Those high heels they use to stand on the chests of dead men or prisoners because it is so exciting for men?
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They surely don't crave the police beat doing the gruesome murder and mayhem reports.
There are some women who actually *do* crave the "excitement" of the police beat, but, by and large, you are correct, I think. I say that only because of my personal experience. I was one of two male reporters in the newsroom of the daily paper I worked for until 1998. Whenever I had a day off, or had too many irons in the fire to cover a breaking police story, the story would be tossed up for other reporters to cover. NO ONE wanted them, but it almost always ended up being the other male reporter who got the assignment.
The female writers wrote about politics, education, and feature/lifestyles stories.
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Whether Judy Mann resigned or was fired, this counts as a victory for the men's movement. Her departure follows her column on terrorism and the cult of manly men so closely that it's very likely that the negative response she received had at least something to do with it.
I wrote the following criticism of Mann's article to the menshealth newsgroup in response to a recent email I received from them. I'm posting it here because I'm uncertain if my email was distributed to that newslist, and because I received such an encouraging response from the list moderator that I'd like to share that with you also. My comments in italics follow some remarks of another list member.
Another great, great article is "This Triumph of the Spirit Belongs to Men" by Christie Blatchford in The National Post (Canada) for September 22, 2001. This piece is simply outstanding, paying eloquent tribute to the heroism and sacrifice of so many men on September 11. http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/columnists/ story.html?f=/stories/20010922/700818.html
[My remarks follow--Mars]
Feminists have taken note of these articles and have retaliated with anti-male bigotry--I'll cite an example. Contrast the above article with the following one from the Washington Post, written by a mainstream feminist who appears to have been motivated by a concern that the recent glorification of masculinity in the wake of the tragedy of September 11th undermines the feminist view that manhood is pathological; the author Judy Mann imposes a misandrist spin on the heroism of the firefighters and police officers at the scene of the World Trade Center, suggesting that the events "shocked" these men (my brother was one of them) out of "old patterns of manhood"--patterns the author claims are partly responsible for terrorism--into what she claims is a "new" kind of manhood that would ultimately lead to the end of terrorism and, apparently, to a feminist utopia. The article can be read here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A629 66-2001Dec18.html; send comments to letters@washpost.com.
Here's the response from the menshealth list moderator:
I agree. And others are taking note of the bigotry, so feminists are increasingly on the losing side of public opinion.
Ed
The list moderator was right. This success is a rejoinder to anyone who believes we shouldn't be "wasting our time writing to extremists" in the hope of changing their minds. The point isn't necessary to change anyone's mind, it's to make our ideas known; if we are right, our notion of equality for both sexes--one that includes men, as if that had to be emphasized--will begin to be accepted by the general public, and it will no longer be acceptable to be a misandrist any more than it is to be a misogynist or a racist.
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"Whether Judy Mann resigned or was fired, this counts as a victory for the men's movement."
I agree. Furthermore, I don't see such a big gap between her being fired or resigning. Either way, I'm sure she was taking a considerable amount of heat for her views -- from readers, bosses, and/or co-workers. If she resigned, she probably felt that she could no longer work in such an environment. Therefore, she hardly had any more options than if she had been fired. Apart from the article, she didn't leave on her own terms. In both instances, she would have been "pushed out", and that is all that counts.
You need your beets -- you recycle, recycle!
Don't eat your beets -- recycle, recycle!
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Whether Judy Mann resigned or was fired, this counts as a victory for the men's movement.
Indeed. I just wish there were some way we could find out the truth behind her resignation. She'd been writing for 20 years. It's rare for even the most conservative newspaper to fire one columnist because of an outcry of disapproval. Generally, reporters are fired for extremely bad screw-ups of fact, or libelous commentary that slipped by the editors.
Whatever the case, I think you're right that it is a victory. The only problem I have with letter-writing as a form of activism is it's too difficult to gauge the effects in a case like this. :) If only her column had contained this line: "I would've gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those damned men's activists."
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> Generally, reporters are fired for extremely
> bad screw-ups of fact, or libelous commentary
> that slipped by the editors.
And occasionally for plagiarism.
sd
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 30, @01:44AM EST (#13)
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Well:
I'd love to say "Ding-dong, the witch is dead!" , and celebrate like you guys. But I suspect she's up to something. True, she's unlikely to land a job with a major newspaper again, but there are plenty of influental websites, alternative papers, radio programs, and other outlets that would probably love to have her. Even if only for an alternative view. So yes guys, its a victory. But lets not count Judy Mann, misandrist, down for the count just yet.
Mind you, I support her right to speak, and her right to her opinions. But I shudder to think that she still might be an influence, even from the relative shadows.
Remo
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I didn't say "ding dong, the witch is dead," or that she was down for the count. I said that it's very likely we had an effect. It will be harder to expose the more subtle forms of misandry around, but hers at least had the benefit of being such obviously seething drivel that virtually anyone could see that it was more important for her to berate men than to pay a modicum of respect to the firemen and law enforcement officers she wrote about. Remo, you've got to have a little faith. This is a turning point. If she becomes a zombie journalist for some moldering rag, we'll handle it.
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I'd like to amplify my statement a little.
It will be harder to expose the more subtle forms of misandry around, but hers at least had the benefit of being such obviously seething drivel that virtually anyone could see that it was more important for her to berate men than to pay a modicum of respect to the firemen and law enforcement officers she wrote about, even if that meant exploiting the tragedy of September 11th to advance an ideological feminist platform. Probably even the liberal journalists that Bernard Goldberg wrote about in Bias could see this.
By the way, men's activists should take note of the chapter in Bias on men's issues. Goldberg makes the point that the mainstream media is ideologically feminist, and won't touch many of the stories posted here. I won't spoil the chapter on men in Bias for you by telling you the details, but I will say we have more evidence of another point I've been repeatedly harping on: that it's no accident that the rise of interest in the men's movement coincides with the development of the internet--mainstream media and even alternative media tend to be ideologically feminist.
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Some things of which I no longer have any doubt...
We are a rising tide. We have power that can no longer be ignored, and our power increases by the day. The thing that goes by the name "feminism" today is evil. And it fears us.
And, finally, we have to take great care that we do not degenerate into evil the way that mainstream feminism has.
Having read about the demise of Judy Mann at the Washington Post, I now go to bed with a truly spontaneous and sweet smile.
We are creating a new and better world. Believe it. All the best for the New Year.
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I doubt that Judy Mann would ever give us the satisfaction of knowing this. Perhaps she was already contemplating leaving if that was the case, but the misandrist drivel she wrote was so politically insulting to the rescue, military and law enforcement workers at the Pentagon and the World Trade Center that her position must have become untenable.
Jesus, imagine how moronic the Washington Post would look if we published an article based on interviews with the firemen and police officers who worked at "ground zero" and asked them if they felt that, in the words of a Washington Post journalist, they were "shocked" out of their "old patterns of manhood" into a new, feminist approved kind that would ultimately lead to the end of terrorism? Actually, we'd look like unmitigated idiots for asking such a question. Could you imagine the reaction? The idea also that "dying for a cause" is linked with pathological masculinity would be another immense insult, if it weren't so ridiculous. Men died so that Judy Mann could express her opinion freely--and so that we could express ours. I believe that casting aspersions on the masculinity of the rescue workers at "ground zero" so soon after September 11th was, at the very least, unwise.
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Until I came to this website I had never written a letter to an editor on a political issue before.
Only one letter to the editors of Scientific American about an article that I felt was badly thought out.
I have a long long way to go I guess; at first when I read the header to this thread I was surprised that anything had even happened, and a little excited, like I felt when Nightmist got that
letter
from the Bush administration. Then big BIG guilt that someone had lost their job or resigned. I'm stunned that letter writing can have that much effect! Just never experienced being a part of something like this before. Feels like I have blood on my hands - "... out foul spot, out ...".
Thanks folks, this is quite an empowering even though ambivalent feeling.
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Don't have ambivalent feelings, Donald. This is like throwing Goebbels out of office.
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Well when you put it that way, then I have to admit to myself that there are people out there who wish us ill.
I still have a long way to go.
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Upon reflection, perhaps the departure was more a question of a combination of similar events over time, rather than this singular event, which might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I too felt the need to be responsible and wise in our activism; my own initial letter in response to Mann was written out of anger.
I also admit to ambivalent feelings, but I attribute some of them them to an instinctive male protective urge--an instinct that might have allowed to be taken advantage of for too long. We should overcome this protective instinct if that means protecting misandrists. I also felt the need to be responsible and just.
It is regrettable that misandrists will be losing their jobs, but to some extent that's their choice, and it's good that misandrists should become less influential--I suspect that Judy Mann's mention of the need for proportional representation of women in journalism was motivated by a concern that there would be fewer influential misandrists. If so, they can still continue to be misandrists on their own time, and they still have protection from government suppression of free speech.
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"It is regrettable that misandrists will be losing their jobs..."
I won't shed a tear.
You need your beets -- you recycle, recycle!
Don't eat your beets -- recycle, recycle!
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I'd rather extend to others a chance to undergo the same kind of revisions of their beliefs that some of us went through when we progressed from a vague emotional awareness of some kind of injustice, until we started developing the vocabulary to articulate our situation.
I don't see a need to do comdemn anyone to eternal damnation in hell once they've been identified as a misandrist, which would be like militant feminists feeling as though they need to do to anyone who they identify as a male chauvinist. We expressed our opinion. Judy Mann could have made an attempt to understand, but for some reason she didn't or couldn't. Instead, she persisted in her misandry. I think it's a terrible thing to be trapped by a psychological resistance to change, or to lack the cognitive wherewithal to detect and do something about the misandry, misogyny or racism in one's own thinking. To the extend that we are able to function, we should be grateful, that's all. I'm expressing my regret and condolences over so many deceased and malfunctioning neurons, that's all.
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We expressed our opinion. Judy Mann could have made an attempt to understand, but for some reason she didn't or couldn't. Instead, she persisted in her misandry.
Exactly. The misandrists must be first shown the error in their thinking. If after that, they still can't see it, then we can damn them. ;)
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Ms. Mann feels that women have a "right" to 50% of the editorships and journalistic positions in America's newspapers. Yet what she fails to mention is that women would only have a "right" to it if newspapers were publicly, rather than privately, owned. (a.k.a. socialism)
She has no more "right" to a job at a newspaper than a man does, no matter what she bases her imagined "right" on: gender, race, hair color, what type of car she drives, whatever... It's also important to note that she still doesn't have a "right" to a job there, even if she bases it purely on ability and not gender. If the employer chooses not to hire her, then her "right" is pretty much null and void.
It reminds me of a statement from Atlas Shrugged:
"The man in Seat 5, Car No. 7, was a worker who believed that he had 'a right' to a job, whether his employer wanted him or not."
"This is John Galt speaking." -Atlas Shrugged
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If the employer chooses not to hire her, then her "right" is pretty much null and void.
Well said, John. That "women are the majority of the population" argument was so completely ridiculous. Judy Mann's socialist-feminist politics clearly shone through in that one statement.
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Just a side note: My name isn't John. :o)
"John Galt" is a character from Atlas Shrugged. My name is actually Vince. (I use at as my signature.)
"This is John Galt speaking." -Atlas Shrugged
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A328 41-2001Dec27.html
"I am retiring with this column, and I do so with the regret that there are so few liberal columnists left in the media and so few women writing serious commentary."
Give me a break! The press is so damn liberal it is painful to watch television or see the crap that the major media outlets call news. It is all liberal commentary...not hard news.
"I have always felt that the media mirror society and that a society in which women are invisible in the media is one in which they are invisible, period."
My bullshit detector went off on this one! The media does NOT mirror society. This has been the case time and time again when you twist the news to not upset a certain minority. Women are invisible? Hardly. Go tell that to some poor soul who has to pay child support for a kid that isn't even his. Tell them about invisibility! It is all perfectly legal and none of it gets a mention in your press or media. That is invisibility my dear.
"... Women traditionally are the ones who raise the next generation..."
Again you are wrong. You are WORKING mothers. You pick a day care or child care provider and think yourself special. There is no tradition in this...only since mothers have flocked to the work place in droves. The rise of mothers going to work is directly related to the rise in teenage suicide. Have you ever looked at those stats? We Americans should just quit having children if one of the parents cannot stay home and raise them. Working mothers today don't do anything that a working father doesn't do. Don't pretend anything different. Go drop your kid off at day-care and hope that they turn out okay.
"I mean looking at the enormous amount of money we've squandered on the "war on drugs" and asking the obvious question: Why are we building more prisons instead of rebuilding broken lives?"
Because people break the law in record numbers and we need a place to house them. That is why we build prisons. You know nothing of the "War on Drugs" because you probably don't have anyone that you know who is hooked on PCP, Meth, Coke, or heroin. You probably haven't come home and the TV set is gone along with the rent money for the month. Tell me about the War on Drugs and I will tell you that you don't know a damn thing. China has a better policy on drug offenders...and it isn't some liberal crap you pass off in your past 60s psychedelics "phase".
"I mean challenging the miserly foreign-aid budget and raising hell because we are not doing our share to educate women and girls in emerging countries."
Miserly? We shouldn't spend a penny on these other countries. I am struggling to save for my kids education now...and he is only 7. I will have no advantages when my kid goes to school...He is male and white. We will make enough money NOT to qualify for financial aid and I will have to use what savings I have and loans to get him through school. "Miserly"...you don't know anything...but then again...the media is a mirror of society and you would already know about these things. Right?
"I was among the first to write about the Taliban's horrific treatment of women and girls."
What about the plight of the men and boys there? They were killed or tortured if they would refuse conscription in the Taliban army. If they shave off their beards...they would have their ears and nose cut off. All I ever hear about is the plight of the women in Afghanistan...what about the men? You make me sick. All of the people there need help...not just the women...you narrow sighted blow hard feminist.
The rest of your article is just fluff and "I love me" because I supposedly did a bunch of stuff first or stood out from the rest of my peers because I sounded off. My bullshit meter went off as I was reading your words. I am glad you are going...and I hope that maybe you will see that you are not a mirror of society and that you really know nothing in your upper-middle class circumstance and wearing your blinders.
Anthony Robertson
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She's an unrepentant anti-male bigot; I hope for her sake that one day she'll come to some understanding and accept responsibility for spreading misandry, but for now we have other fish that don't need bicycles to fry.
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This is the most blatantly bigoted passage:
Men and women do not see the world through the same lens: Women traditionally are the ones who raise the next generation, and that means we think deeply about the environment our children will grow in, the schools where they will learn, the pesticides on the food they will eat, the safety of the world they will live in, the fairness of the laws they must abide by. We are not the warrior class.
In case the bigotry isn't obvious, let's use our search and replace editing commands to replace "Men" with "Blacks" and "Women" with "Whites" and see what results:
Blacks and whites do not see the world through the same lens: Whites traditionally are the ones who raise the next generation, and that means we think deeply about the environment our children will grow in, the schools where they will learn, the pesticides on the food they will eat, the safety of the world they will live in, the fairness of the laws they must abide by. We are not the warrior class.
An unrepentant bigot. Misandry is morally no better than racism.
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