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Just about every woman I meet has a boyfriend or husband. This situation has persisted throughout my twenties (I'm 31 now) - and if anything, is getting worse. It's very difficult to meet an intelligent, attractive, unattached woman who isn't completely nuts or an Andrea Dworkin disciple (are those conditions equivalent?;)).
Many of my friends have the same problem. The solution, as we see it, is to look outside the US and Canada. Some of my friends have taken up with women from countries like (just off the top of my head) Japan, England, France, etc. I hope to do the same. There seem to be a larger number of single women in other countries, so I haven't given up hope quite yet.
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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I know what mean Coyote. I'm 26, and the only times I ever meet a woman is if their a girlfriend, fiancee, or wive of a friend of mine. Plus, it doesn't help that I'm just naturally shy around women. :(
Almost makes one wish that sexual orientation was a preference.
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This might sound puerile, but the best way that I've found to overcome shyness with women that I'm attracted to, is to say to myself, "No matter what, she won't go out with me, so it doesn't matter what she thinks of me."
It works for me. I become less inhibited and more secure around them by simply (a) not trying to impress them and (b) not worrying what impression they're getting of me.
Because it doesn't matter! I've already admitted to myself that it won't work out, so I can talk about what interests me, and if I find that she likes the same stuff, that's just a gift. Let her do the work of attracting a mate for once. Like the Anonymous User in comment #5 said, most women are spoiled rotten by the constant fawning of men over them.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way - you're probably more successful than you claim. I'm pretty shy too. Most women are taught to wait for that one perfect man; if you are obviously *trying* to be him, they'll suspect something is wrong with your real self.
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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Couldn't for the life of me say why, but I noticed a considerable lack of datables around when I was you guys' age as well. Then all of a sudden, around my mid-30's, they show up in droves. I think the mid-life crisis timer may have kicked in and got them to stop holding out for Mr. Perfect and settle for a Mr. JustHerSpeed like yours truly.
As for "completely nuts" vs. "Andrea Dworkin disciple," I think it's one of those square/rectangle things. You can be nuts and not care for Dworkin, but not really vice-versa.....
David Schmidt
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I love that square/rectangle analogy. Very true!
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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Be careful with those online dating services, whether you use Yahoo Personals or a foreign bride company. There is a problem inherent to both types of services, and that is you get almost no face-to-face time with your intended mate before marrying them. The woman can pretend to be anything she wants via the computer. She can pretend to be something utterly different than what she really is.
www.saferdating.com is a great site for anyone interested in using online personal ads. The last time I looked, there was also an article there addressed specifically to men who are thinking of using mail-order bride services. It tells you what to expect and what to watch out for (Rule #1 is never, never, NEVER send any woman you meet over the Net money).
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that I think there is that the women's movement as taught women that they can "have it all." And due do that, I'v notice that some of my female friends expect all of us men to be the "knight in shining armour," and geez...guess what? most of us are just regular Joes looking for a regular Jane thats suitable for us.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday December 11, @03:12PM EST (#5)
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I'm 33. Very successful, in shape and attractive. And have been dating for two years, but I recently got engaged to a woman 1 year my senior.
The younger girls/woman today (22-29), if they are considered attractive by most men (you know - hotties), are very difficult to date and maintain a relationship with because they have so many men willing to spoil them rotten. They actually have a condescending attitude toward men. I also avoided anyone that had feminist ideologies (I don't need any man hating noise in my life, I'm too busy).
I found that there are many nice woman/girls out there who have been caught up in career so long that they are worried about domestic issues and maternal issues. The problem with a lot of these women are that they make you feel like you are on a business luncheon or something until they (hopefully) calm down a little.
After narrowing down my prospects I ended up with two great women (1 a year older and the other 3 years younger) It was the toughest choice in my life.
I guess that I would basically agree with the article that men are considering women around their age or a little older now.
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Interesting article but it doesn't quite jive with what I've read here that men are reluctant to marry. From this article it seems men are pro-actively pursuing marriage.
I have a friend 53 who was married just 2 weeks ago to a lovely woman 43. They met through an elite dating service that charges quite a bit to join, about $500 I believe. The benefit is your pool is narrowed down to people serious enough about finding a mate to shell out that kind of money. They openly announced how they met at the wedding reception, showed the videotapes they made of themselves to attract a mate, and even invited the head and employees of the dating agency to attend!
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Perhaps it has something to do with what the bachelors are seeking. My dad, in his 50s, complains that he can't find women to date, but he is definitely looking at the wrong pool of candidates. He is 50, very heavy, and works a blue collar job, looking to date a woman in her twenties, petite and blonde. He also wants a woman who does not want to marry or have children. I love my dad very much but his dating ambitions are not realistic. Women who have expressed interest in him are always deemed too old, too fat, or wanting a different commitment than he.
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I wouldn't say that men are reluctant to marry at all. They just don't want to marry a women that's primarily in it for financial security and social status - they're looking for love. We want and need love too, you know. Would you want to marry a man who wanted you only for your looks?
Congratulations to your friends - and I really do wish them joy - but most of us younger guys simply can't afford 500 clams to make a videotape yet. We're stuck for now with striking up awkward conversations with young women that we meet (in the very most optimal of circumstances) through friends of friends (of friends, etc.).
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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>I wouldn't say that men are reluctant to marry at all. They just don't want to marry
>a women that's primarily in it for financial security and social status - they're looking
>for love.
I am of the opinion that people who don't want to have children have more of a chance of finding love than people who do. Think about it logically. The main reason why many of those women want a "fiancially secure" man is because they want to have kids, and kids cost money, lots and lots of money. If you marry someone who can't afford to completely or even partially support a family, and if you cannot be the primary breadwinner yourself (you don't earn enough), you can kiss your dream of children goodbye. Unless you don't mind never being able to provide adequate food, clothing and other necessites for your kids.
If you want kids, you are forced to look for a good parent for your future children, instead of a good mate for YOU.
If I wanted kids, I would never have been able to partner with the man I'm with now. He doesn't make anywhere even near enough to support a family, and neither do I. Because I do not want children, I was able to disregard my partner's wallet and look at his soul.
I feel very lucky in this respect. I hear too many women say, "He's not a good husband, but he's a great father and provider." Sometimes men similiar about their wives. I am glad I did not have to allow myself to fall into that pit.
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Some interesting points Claire:
First I feel that while there is some degree of logic in picking a "mate" there is also a great deal of illogical choices involved in finding love. (I think we can all testify to mistakes we have made)
Also if anyone is waiting until they "have money" to start having children is in for a LONG wait. most families are started in the first few years of marriage and finances are still shaky. From personal experience, there is NEVER a convenient time to have children.
And finally, you have made a preceptive observation that people may have many varied qualities, some of which are well suited for marriage and some that are better suited for parenthood. To wait for the person who has them all is a pipedream. My feeling is that you find a person that you can live with (literally). The ability to work out the difficult issues is probably the most important factor in a longterm relationship. Knowing how to agree to disagree.
gotta run baby crying :)
Tony H
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The point about the finances is valid, but if neither spouse earns above, say, $10/hour, it's not just a matter of stretching finances. If those people choose to have kids, the kids will end up doing without basic life necessities, even if both spouses work full-time. Teachers in Los Angeles tell of providing their students with toothbrushes and toothpaste because their parents actually can't afford to buy those things.
I like to think that many parents want their kids to have at least as much as they did when growing up. If the parent grew up in a house in a decent neighborhood, with a yard to play in, they're not going to want to subject their kid to life in a dingy studio apartment, sleeping in the main room with both their parents, in a 'hood where you don't dare wear red (or blue, or whatever) unless you have a death wish, and if you *don't* hear gunfire at night, you think there's something wrong.
If my partner and I had kids, the above is exactly what would happen. We struggle to pay our own bills, *especially* since he's out of work right now. There is no way we could provide a kid with even a minimal standard of living. If it was my dream to have a family, I would not have been able to partner with this man, and that would have been terrible. I would have had to choose the best provider instead of the best mate.
I do agree that too many people are determined to get Mr. or Ms. Perfect instead of Mr. or Ms. Right. I love my partner, but he is not perfect. That's fine, neither am I. We were friends for a couple of years before we began dating. It all fell into place wonderfully.
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Realizing that there are distinct differences between men and women: However, personally I found that the best way to find dates is to make a conscious effort NOT to date. I married and divorced young. After a string of unsuccessful dating experiences, I made a decision that I would not date at all for a year. I stopped looking for "Mr. Right" and stopped accepting dates from "Mr. Maybe". I was celibate. I did a lot of soul searching into what I really wanted out of life, for myself and my daughter, and learned to enjoy my own company and to really enjoy the company of members of the opposite sex as friends and as individuals, instead of as potential mates.
By the end of my self-imposed singularity I was a more self-confident person and knew a lot more about what I did and did not want, what my mistakes were in the past, and what I could compromise on and what I could not.
When I came out of hermitage I found I had a lot of date offers. In the end I found my soul mate in a man whom I had met during that year and had become one of my closest friends.
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sounds a little like what I was trying to say above. difficult, isn't it?
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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It's a little different from what you said. You said, "She won't go out with me so it doesn't matter what she thinks." This is pessimistic and no man should presume himself so unworthy. The nonverbal message is that you believe you are unlikeable, so why should anyone else like you?
I said, "I won't go out with him so it doesn't matter what he thinks." I think choosing not to go out with someone, as opposed to presuming they would choose not to go out with you, conveys a different and more powerful nonverbal message. "I don't need dates to make me happy", as opposed to "I can't get a date anyway so why worry."
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Actually, I meant it as sort of a zen thing ...It's a kind of mental trick to calm oneself down. I realize I should have written that comment differently now. I'm pessimistic, yes, but I don't consider myself unworthy.
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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How many times do I have to repeat this: don't take dating advice from women! This one appears to ignore statistics: there are fewer available women around. That't not a question of men's attitudes--as if demographics were a matter of attitude! Don't take the time for soul searching unless you know that every other guy is taking the same amount of time finding himself, and you believe that women will be asking you out after your "hermitage."
I'm really a breath of fresh air, aren't I?
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It IS a matter of attitude. If you project desperation, it'll be noticed, I assure you.
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When I felt bad about myself, no men wanted to be around me. I blamed it on my looks, my financial status, my social ranking, everything, but in the end it all came down to attitude. When I lost the dark cloud hanging over my head, and stopped being desperate to land a man, any man, I ended up with the most wonderful guy in the world. =) I still have the same average looks, the same rotten financial situation, the same social status, everything. It was the attitude change that changed everything.
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We're a long way from desperation, dear. That's a non-sequiteur.
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I meant non sequitur. It's hard to know what to make of such vague statements. Which population are you accusing of sabotaging themselves through the appearance of desperation? The entire population of men cited in the article? That would be an additional burden to overcome, beyond the statistical imbalance, the sheer numbers that we so love not to acknowledge.
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I am not accusing anyone of sabotaging themselves. I was advocating that people of either gender are attracted to self-confidence. And, as the article seems to specify that men are having trouble finding YOUNGER women to marry, perhaps they might discover that women closer their own age a little less hard to find.
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The points on self-confidence and finding women closer to one's own age are probably not related--it would take an argument to relate them. I myself prefer women around my own age or older.
I find platitudes about the need for self-confidence or across-the-board insinuations about "desperation" silly.
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Okay, have you never had a girlfriend or female friend who is so obviously looking to settle down that she makes you uncomfortable? Made you feel more like a contingency plan than a lover or friend? I can think of examples within either gender, from among my acquaintances. I can even confess to having "been there" at one point.
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And the demographics you speak of suggest that the problem is with fewer YOUNGER available women. Which again goes back to attitude - if you're looking for a hot young thing in her twenties and you're in your thirties or forties, you'd better have a lot more to offer than a hang-dog expression.
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Relationships are very important to a good life, and thus objective facts about the prospects for relationships with women are important to (heterosexual) men.
Unfortunately, this article is statistically suspect and clearly has an anti-male bias. Some points:
1) I doubt that long-term declines in birthrates are at all relevant for men looking for women only a few years younger than them. Birth rates just don't change very quickly.
2) A lot of persons are involved in exclusive relationships but are not married. Thus statistics about unmarried persons are not a good indicator of persons available for serious dating.
3) Social and economic factors swamp the importance of raw demographics. For example, many men, at least historically, have not hesitated to marry women who make a lot less money than they do. Women are generally unwilling to do this. That means that the dating pool for poor men is abysmal. More generally, attitudes toward the (currently large in the US) economic risks associated with marrying someone who earns much less than you greatly affects the pool of eligible spouses (particularly in the US where there are relatively large income differentials).
Some examples of anti-male bias:
1) The article refers to a "biological clock" for men, but curiously never mentions men's interest in having children. A good reason for men to prefer women younger than 38 is that such a woman offers a man much better prospects for having children. Despite systematic, vicious attempts to alienate men from children, many men still care greatly about having children. The biological clock for women is real. That's unfortunate for women, and men, but pretending that a biological clock exists for men is a "gender feminist" attempt to "construct" a false equality.
2) The article is clearly structured as a "scare story" purporting to "report" the "balance of power" in dating, but obviously intending to shift it away from men. Notice in the article the standard "gender feminist" interpretation of love as a "power struggle". Men should have a deeper understanding of love. Maybe men want a better kind of love, and maybe that's why men are finding many of the women in the US unattractive.
Men should insist that women respect their human dignity. If men have trouble finding such women, they should grieve and cry out for change. But they shouldn't get married to women who don't respect them as fully human beings, even if such women are the only ones available.
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I'm sympathetic to the opinions expressed in 2).
The article doesn't mention how the statistics were obtained, nor how they vary with geography; i.e., do they hold uniformly all over the country, or do they vary depending on location somehow? Methodologically, the article leaves something to be desired.
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