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I am proud as hell that men are finally standing up for themselves in terms of the atrocious way we are depicted in television advertisements. The fact that number of complaints have doubled over the past year is significant. It's significant because it implies that more more are taking notice of the effects male bashing has on society, that it's anything but "harmless fun."
Perhaps we finally have a movement under way after all.
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We certainly do, and it's no accident that the rise of the men's movement coincides with the continued development of the internet, an alternative medium which is conducive to men's preferred styles of networking and which is not dominated by feminist ideology, unlike mainstream media.
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I'm pleased to hear that more and more men are speaking out against anti-male advertizing. These advertizing agencies need to learn that the price of male-bashing is going up (in terms of lost business).
Who knows, I may even plug my TV set back in if things improve enough.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday December 09, @08:41PM EST (#4)
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Don't look for any epiphany on the part of advertisers untill they can feel it in their pocket-books. Step up the complaints, even to the point of litigation. But don't forget to look for alternate products.
Just this afternoon, during a football game I saw one of the most offensive ads I've ever seen, posted by by Southwest Airlines. You can bet tthese guys will be getting a call and I have a specific instance where I would otherwise use their product. I fully intend to let them know that I will be traveling via other means this Easter.
Frankh
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Frankh, please describe the ad for us. I haven't seen any SouthWest commercials lately, and I fly them all the time.
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The Southwest ad starts with a female college student watching tv in her dorm room, and getting ready for a trip home. On the TV is a video of a pride of lions fighting over a kill. It ends with a scene at the familty dinner table, with dad and brothers fighting over steaks.
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I assume that you are also opposed to sexy girls in bikinis in beer commercials as you are to sexist "beefcake" ads of men? Personally, I don't go out of my way to purchase products touted by either type of ad.
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by Anonymous User on Monday December 10, @06:40PM EST (#8)
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You've never been to a family gathering that's just like that, esp. during the holidays? To each his own, but I think the ad is funny, and you're reading much too far into it.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday December 11, @04:10AM EST (#14)
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Well, sorry to disagree, but I think the commercial is funny, even though I'm a guy. It doesn't sound sexist to me. That very well could be me in that commercial, being a ravenous meat eater. Lighten up.
Have you seen the car commercial "really gets guys talking", where the guys are looking under the hood, pointing and grunting, and being pretty dumb? Does that offend you? Or what about the new line of commercials for the beard timmer, "guys mess up enough"... does that offend you? What about "don't leave guys to their own devices"? These are funny commercials. Especially the "devices" one where they're all blowing the whistle things out of their noses.
Males and females are different. Period. If we can't laugh at our differences, then how are we any different than any other -ist? Men are notorious for not being good housecleaners (aka, slobs). It's a potential line for jokes, and it's fine. Women are notorious for being nuts over shoes and general clothes shopping, buying them for one event, then tossing them in the closet. Let it be a joke. There are generalities when it comes to gender and behaviours - and to whine and cry about them is silly.
Having a bunch of guys fighting over steaks, like lions, doesn't sound like "all rapes are committed by men" to me.
If one chooses to complain and rally up against basic gender differences, then one sounds like any other radical group. You're a guy - laugh at guy-isms.
Perhaps I missed the point, but I don't think so. For the most part, I enjoy reading the posts in this site, and agree with most of them - but sometimes, I find that if I switch gender terms - male for female - the articles are just like those we complain about - just with switched gender references. I understand that this site is dedicated to guy-related issues, but when we complain over silly and inconsequential issues (especially humor), it all begins to sound the same.
phrogg
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I assume that you are also opposed to sexy girls in bikinis in beer commercials as you are to sexist "beefcake" ads of men? Personally, I don't go out of my way to purchase products touted by either type of ad.
Hmmm. I didn't notice anyone complaining about "beefcake" ads. Ads that are designed to make men look like stupid animals are the offensive ones.
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Like you said, to each his own. You are certainly entitled to find the ad funny, but to me, saying I am reading too much into an advertisement I might find degrading, is kind of insulting.
fritzc77
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Beautiful bikini model vs. bumbling buffoon.
How many women would choose to be represented, in an ad, as the latter instead of the former?
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I have seen only a few ads in which women are the butt of jokes. The only one I can remember offhand (now three years old) was an ad for a local drugstore that had a woman spending ages making herself up, only to knock her date out with her breath. This local company runs roughly equal numbers of "dumb men" and "dumb women" ads, but they're the only company I know of doing this.
The poster who asked if cheesecake ads were also offensive either missed the point or had a point, depending upon how you look at it. I too find "beefcake" ads unoffensive. I have no pretensions to being muscular and fit; I was once, it was fun, but I've moved on to other things. So, clips of statuesque young men just go in one eye and out the other.
However, I must also admit that one thing that pisses me off about feminism is its constant insistence that "the rules" be modified to outlaw that which women find offensive while protecting men from "exactly the same thing." It's a trick of argument as old as the hills; in the turn-of-the-last-century words of Anatole France, "The majestic egalitarianism of the law, which forbids the rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." For example, much effort has gone into stopping men from treating the workplace like a nightclub by persistently hitting on female coworkers. Feminists claim that this is fair because the rules also forbid women from persistently hitting on male coworkers, a hollow "equality" because women hardly ever do this. At the same time, feminists ignore women who treat the workplace like a nightclub by cranking up the sex appeal, ramping up their "sexual advertising." I've always maintained that I'm as uncomfortable working around women dressed to kill as a woman is working around men who keep hitting on her.
In that same vein, I would say to that poster that I wouldn't lose any sleep if the "busty, barely-clad blonde" stereotype were yanked from TV tomorrow along with the "stupid, bumbling man" stereotype. In fact, I'd probably prefer it, because as tired as I am at seeing my sex portrayed as hapless losers, I'm also as tired as you are (for different reasons) of having tits and ass shoved in my face in order to try to sell me something.
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Have you seen the car commercial "really gets guys talking", where the guys are looking under the hood, pointing and grunting, and being pretty dumb? Does that offend you? Or what about the new line of commercials for the beard timmer, "guys mess up enough"... does that offend you? What about "don't leave guys to their own devices"? These are funny commercials. Especially the "devices" one where they're all blowing the whistle things out of their noses.
Yes, those commercials are highly offensive.
Males and females are different. Period. If we can't laugh at our differences, then how are we any different than any other -ist? Men are notorious for not being good housecleaners (aka, slobs). It's a potential line for jokes, and it's fine.
We're different, yes, but men are not stupid. If you truly believe that you are stupid and slobbish because you are male, then I feel sorry for you.
Stereotypes are most definitely not welcome here, at least by me. I am a single man who owns my own home, and I can clean that place just as well as any woman could. I am not, nor have I ever been a slob. I am also not a grunting idiot. These stereotypes are harmful, but not just because they're stereotypes. They're harmful because only men are the butt of the jokes these days.
If one chooses to complain and rally up against basic gender differences, then one sounds like any other radical group. You're a guy - laugh at guy-isms.
Being a violent, stupid ape is not a "guy-ism."
Perhaps I missed the point, but I don't think so.
I think you have quite missed the point. I'm not offended by the Southwest ad (finally saw it). I am offended by the Norelco ad. It's not funny. It's offensive. It's also not inconsequential. How we are portrayed in the media eventually reflects how we will be looked upon in real life. Do you really want to be thought of as a lesser human being by women? Do you really believe women should believe that you are stupid because you have a penis?
I have a column coming up on this very topic soon.
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Adding to that - I do consider frivolous shopping and spending to be a more sophisticated human "idiosyncracy" than grunting and bumbling like any old hairy beast in the woods. Actually, the way I've always interpreted said stereotypes is that men's "problem" is that we are under-civilized, whereas women are over-civilized to the point where they act like spoilt aristocrats. I actually do find the male stereotype to be much more offensive.
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Adding to that - I do consider frivolous shopping and spending to be a more sophisticated human "idiosyncracy" than grunting and bumbling like any old hairy beast in the woods.
One other thing, Hawth, is that the shopping stereotype doesn't really apply to women anymore, at least as far as depictions in advertising. Seen the new Circuit City ads? It is the man who can't control his shopping habits, while the woman stands in the background and looks judgmental.
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From the lead-in to this thread:
"Men say they are fed up being depicted either as sex gods with unfeasibly muscular bodies and chiselled jaws...."
So apparently some men ARE complaining. I stand by my question.
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So apparently some men ARE complaining. I stand by my question.
Well, even if they are, so what? Women complained for years and years about being depicted as sex objects in advertising and, despite a few oddities like The Man Show one rarely sees women depicted in that light in television commercials anymore.
Regardless, the sex objects thing doesn't bother me. It's the harsh, insulting treatment of men as violent, stupid apes, or otherwise useless matter, that offends me.
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Because I anticipate someone posing the question: "Why is it better to be a sex object than a violent, stupid ape?" I would suggest, too, that whenever you see women portrayed as sex objects (and, here, I'm referring to the bikini-clad babes and such), the implication is that this is how they are being viewed through male eyes, or that this is how men are supposed to want women to be (such as when they use them in beer commercials directed at men, etc.) Thus, even though it is the women who are portrayed "negatively", the portrayal actually points directly back to men and men's "ape-ish" proclivities.
When men are portrayed as stupid apes, however, there is usually no implication that this is how women choose to see men, or would even desire us to be (indeed, since the apish behavior is usually portrayed as a source of irritation and inconvenience to the woman).
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They always show women dressed in sexy apparel in commercials, particularly for beer. What do you mean, "rarely?".
I am not big on the stupid ape depictment of men either, FYI. I love the men in my life, and not one of them fits the violent neanderthal description.
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They always show women dressed in sexy apparel in commercials, particularly for beer. What do you mean, "rarely?".
I haven't seen a beer commercial depicting women in bikinis since 1988 (the Swedish Bikini Team). That's quite a bit distant from 2001 in terms of advertising trends. The only other commercials in which women appear as sex objects are (arguably) the Victoria's Secret commercials and the commercials for the "Girls Gone Wild" videos, neither of which objectify women against their will, and, as Hawth said, none of them depict that sexuality as a bad thing. It's not.
I am not big on the stupid ape depictment of men either, FYI. I love the men in my life, and not one of them fits the violent neanderthal description.
That's great, and I am glad to hear it from you. Hopefully, more people feel the way you do about it and the ads will change. In spite of what people may like to think, ads that depict negative stereotypes ARE harmful. I can't tell you how many times women in my office have assumed that I think or behave in a certain fashion because I have a penis, even though my true thoughts and actions may be the complete opposite of what they think they are.
The stupid Neanderthal stereotype is wrong on so many levels (not the least of which is that the Neanderthals were not *really* a stupid species, and may not even be directly related to us homo sapiens sapiens).
I grew up listening to girls in the 1970s telling me how stupid I was because I was boy. They even wore T-shirts: "Let's Face It. Girls Are Smarter." As a result, I had low self-esteem about my intellect and scholastic abilities for a long time. It wasn't until Jr. High School, when I noticed that I was actually get grades as good or better than the girls in my class, that I started to realize they were wrong.
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On the topic of sexy, skimpily-clad women in beer commercials, one I really liked was a Miller beer commerical where a woman dressed in a bathing suit, rather brief but I don't recall if it was a bikini, has difficulty opening a cold beer because of the tanning oil she'd just rubbed all over herself. She gave the (male) gardner a sly look and he comes over to assist. He takes the beer, removes the lid, indifferently tosses the lid at the woman, and walks off with the cold beer. Not a word was said. I'm sure there a number of females who regard this as a put-down, and maybe it is, but I almost stood up and applauded when this guy walked away from something he was probably never going to get close to anyway.
Using sex to sell things doesn't bother me. It also doesn't work: I usually recall the image of the sexy babe, but not the product name. If it bothers the women, they're welcome to complain and I will not protest if it goes away. But don't use insults to men as the alternative. I've already drained the Prestone anti-freeze out of my radiator and replaced it with someone elses product, and I've already picked a different airline for next year's family trip to AZ.
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I grew up listening to girls in the 1970s telling me how stupid I was because I was boy. They even wore T-shirts: "Let's Face It. Girls Are Smarter."
Unfortunately, that sort of thing hasn't gone away. About six months ago I saw a woman, apparently the mother, with a girl of about 12 and a boy of about 9. The girl was wearing a T-shirt that said on the front, "Girls rule" and on the back, "Boys just sit around and drool" The mother might as well have forced her son to wear a T-shirt that said, "Spit on me. I'm garbage." Emotional child abuse?
Then about three months ago, I was driving along a busy state highway and saw a woman driving an SUV with a bumper sticker that said, "Boys lie!" Again, emotional child abuse.
Ain't the gynocracy wonderful?
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I've seen shirts emblazoned with "girls rock" and "girls are cool" but I haven't seen any that specifically mock boys like that. I'll keep my eyes open. Every so often a "boys vs. girls" argument will break out at my house (it's a step family - one girl and mom, two boys and dad) and we are pretty firm on such fights being completely inappropriate.
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I haven't seen the "Girls Rule, Guys Drool" T-shirt, but I've heard the saying spewed from many a modern man-hating woman. Most recently heard it on "Battlebots" when the judges called a *really* close match in favor of two really large women with a firetruck for a 'bot.
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Nightmist said, "Perhaps we finally have a movement under way after all."
Indeed we do. It makes me proud and fills me with hope.
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