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"...I think we need to draw the line where it is used, and I believe a lot of ethical groups would draw the line."
Well, perhaps it's easy to say that now - but perhaps the same was said of abortion when it became legal. Now, abortion is rampant in our country, even with the continuing ethical debate. So, apparently, no one is "drawing the line" there.
I believe the same will hold true for this matter, which is a lot more than just "a bit frightening." Considering the anti-male climate we live in, and considering the fact that men are becoming - in a sense - legally oppressed, a scientific process which could eradicate the necessity of male input in reproduction would be hammering the final nail in the coffin, wouldn't it? There are more than a few ideologues - albeit among the more radical factions - who assert that the only reason males exist is for our sperm, but that otherwise we are a necessary evil, being just flawed biological offshoots of the superior female prototype, and that the duration of our existence hinges on how much longer it will be before we discover a way we can avoid that necessary evil. Again - there are a lot of people out there who actually feel this way!
And, even if this process were not actually used to eradicate males (keeping in mind the heterosexual nature of most women), my guess is that it would still be forever lorded over our heads as a means to both threaten and humble us to the point where we could not have any real collective self-esteem or feeling of value at all.
Bad as things already are and have been, scientific "breakthroughs" like this are a sign to me that "Feminaziism" has not even begun to fully materialize itself, and we have yet to see just how bad it can truly become.
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"It is now technically feasible to reproduce without the aid of males (or, for that matter, females) and to produce only females. We must begin immediately to do so."
The Scum Manifesto
by Valerie Solanas
http://www.ai.mit.edu/~shivers/rants/scum.html
"Streicher ... was the publisher of Der Stuermer, an anti-Semitic weekly newspaper, from 1923 to1945 and was its editor until 1933.
Crimes against Peace
Streicher was a staunch Nazi and supporter of Hitler's main policies. There is no evidence to show that he was ever within Hitler's inner circle of advisers; nor during
his career was he closely connected with the formulation of the policies which led to war. He was never present, for example, at any of the important conferences
when Hitler explained his decisions to his leaders. Although he was a Gauleiter there is no evidence to prove that
[Page 101]
he had knowledge of those policies. In the opinion of the Tribunal, the evidence fails to establish his connection with the conspiracy or common plan to wage
aggressive war as that conspiracy has been elsewhere defined in this Judgment.
Crimes against humanity
For his 25 years of speaking, writing, and preaching hatred of the Jews, Streicher was widely known as "Jew-Baiter Number One" In his speeches and articles,
week after week, month after month, he infected the German mind with the virus of anti-Semitism, and incited the German People to active persecution. ...
[Page 131]
Defendant Julius Streicher, on the counts of the Indictment on which you have been convicted, the International Military Tribunal sentences you to death by hanging."
The Nizkor Project
International Military Tribunal
The Trial Of German Major War Criminals
Judgment: 30th September, 1946 - 1st October, 1946
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-de fendants-streicher.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-se ntencing.html
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Before we get too upset about this, let me point out a few things about this experiment, society and the human reproductive process:
* The experiment is in a VERY early stage. They have no guarantee of its success, because:
* You can practically breathe on any mammal's egg and start cell division. In fact, there are tumors which can develop on unfertilized eggs and cause them to start dividing. They're called teratomas, and the affected eggs sometimes start to develop hair, teeth, eyes...it's what an egg is programmed to do when stimulated.
* The scientist in this story states in another new service's story about this same experiment that "there are gene pairings that come only from the paternal side when an embryo begins to develop. We don't know if they're important yet,"
which means that (in humans, anyway) a male may be necessary for the development of a true human baby after all.
* Even if the experiment is a success, and scientists can develop healthy babies without using sperm, the process is likely to be incredibly time consuming and expensive for quite some time, which means that the simplest (and most enjoyable) way to make a baby is good old fashioned sex (or mmore modern kinky fetish sex if that's what you're into, as long as the little sperm guys get to the proper place).
The media is jumping the gun on this, I think, which is why the scientist kept reiterating that there she was pessimistic about success.
Still... it's scary just to know these experiments are even going on...
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"Too upset" - I don't think that is a problem we have to worry about.If we overreacted and set back the "cause" of women or feminism farther than it deserves to be set back then we have overreacted. Rather our timid responses have only emboldened the feminists to move from insults to threats of violence.
Even if I thought they had no chance of realizing their aim I still would be "upset" at the desire and attempt. Was it not Aristotle who said: "It is the intent that makes the crime." Really, have you men no pride? Is this really the Men's ACTIVISM org. or is it the men's Crybaby group? Just on account of insults alone Benjamin Franklin once wrote:
" Thus my fellow-citizens, if an impudent writer attacks your reputation, dearer to you perhaps than your life, and puts his name to the charge, you may go to him as openly and break his head. If he conceals himself behind the printer, and you can nevertheless discover who he is, you may in a like manner way-lay him in the night, attack him behind, and give him a good drubbing. If your adversary hire better writers than himself to abuse you the more effectually, you may hire brawny porters, stronger than yourself, to assist you in giving him a more effectual drubbing. -- Thus far goes my project, as to private resentment and retribution. But if the public should ever happen to be affronted, as it ought to be with the conduct of such writers, I would not advise proceeding immediately to these extremities; but that we should in moderation content ourselves with tarring and feathering, and tossing them in a blanket."
Is this case the whole future existence of the male sex is threatened,and if technology has showed us anything it is that it is only a matter of time.
" It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? "
Patrick Henry
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Spartacus, by using the word "upset" I am trying to prevent anyone from taking the media's word for this piece and killing themselves out of loss of hope. Sue me if you think that's "crybaby." I've been suicidal over things like this.
No, I DON'T think we're overreacting to the possibility of the extinction of men, but I DO think that this "experiment" in Australia has a LOOONG way to go before it can eradicate men.
Honestly, I think what they're really going to discover is that men have much more to do with the creation of a child than anyone ever imagined. I find it hard to believe that we are just "fertilizers."
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Nightmist,
"Sue me"?; that's not a very manly to settle things. Why don't you send me your address and I 'll come over and go a few rounds with you (just kidding.)
"I've been suicidal over things like this."
Better to go down swinging while taking with you as many as your enemies as you can.
"I DO think that this "experiment" in Australia has a LOOONG way to go before it can eradicate men."
Should we have waited until Hitler had developed the bomb or the Russians had their missiles in Cuba? The time to act is now.
"I think what they're really going to discover is that men have much more to do with the creation of a child than anyone ever imagined. I find it hard to believe that we are just "fertilizers.""
Um... actually we are just fertilizers in the creation of the child - something the feminists are trying to build on. What we do is help create the whole social setting is which the child is born. We are stereotypically the provider and defender of women and children; we guide them, care for them, but the procreative act can be as simple as "Wham bam thank you Ma'am."
Often before the murder of a leadership class can take place a replacement group needs to be established. That is going on now as women replace men in their traditional roles. If we wait too long to react then eventually it will be too late.
"There has never been a case of men and women reigning together, but wherever on the earth men are found, there we see that men rule, and women are ruled, and that on this plan, both sexes live
in harmony. But on the other hand, the Amazons, who are reported to have held rule of old, did not suffer men to stop in their country, but reared only their female children, killing the males to whom they gave birth."
Spinoza
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Well, then, Spartacus... act. How do you propose to go about it? Beat 'em up?
And, obviously, you haven't read all the articles on this experiment. The suggestion the scientist makes is that males MAY BE more than fertilizer to the egg. There's a process called "imprinting" that happens after conception. The chromosomes from the male find genes in the chromosomes from the female which have not been "turned on" and turns on its own copies of those genes to make up for it. Likewise, the chromosomes from the female to the male.
That's why this scientist is pessimistic about getting beyond anything but cell division with the somatic cell to egg scenario. She believes "imprinting" will not work with this process, but "doesn't know how important that is" to the life and health of the embryo/fetus/child.
In spite of all the biology books, science really doesn't know everything about conception and development yet. If we did, the abortion issue would've been resolved a long, long time ago.
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"Well, then, Spartacus... act. How do you propose to go about it? Beat 'em up? "
A guess a little childish sarcasm doesn't hurt - I mean,
every great once in a while.
Actually, given that all states most ultimately rest of force, the
truth is not that far off. I suppose that one of the quickest
ways of countering the feminist menace would be for most of
the men of this country to convert to Islam, claim solidarity
with the Muslim world, and then start our own Taliban
to whip our women into line (my arms get tired just thinking
about it.)
"And, obviously, you haven't read all the articles on this experiment."
No, I haven't read "all" of them; could you post a list of all the
articles in the world's newspapers (I assume there is a significant
variance between them otherwise you would not have made that
remark.)
"Lacham-Kaplan said the research, if successful in humans,
also theoretically could allow babies to be born without any
input from men" (from another version off Yahoo)
" The suggestion the scientist makes is that males MAY BE more
than fertilizer to the egg. There's a process called "imprinting" that
happens after conception."
I interpret the word "males" to mean an male human being capable
of procreation and not a male sex cell. What good does it do us
that imprinting occurs AFTER conception. At best, that might mean
a few males left to supply sperm banks - but even that they want to
do away with.
" She believes "imprinting" will not work with this process, but "doesn't know how important that is" to the life and health of the embryo/fetus/child."
Do you think these Maenads are going to stop because they are
not sure of the outcome? How often have scientists stopped
because they were not sure of the potential of their inventions?
Even if doubts were to stop them at this point, it would only
be a pause to refine their techniques or find another route.
In the absence of a statement for the natural and legal rights
of men independent of what they can do for women and children
we are "AT RISK" of being exterminated.
"In spite of all the biology books, science really doesn't know everything about conception and development yet. If we did, the abortion issue would've been
resolved a long, long time ago. "
Nonsense. Science is largely the work of men and abortion is
an issue of great interest and largely controlled by women.
Rational beings find the "mean between the extremes" as
grounds for compromise. Irrational beings go to emotional
extremes and engage in endless battles.
"By seeking death, you coward, the most easy and most
ready refuge, you fancy that you shall appear courageous and
brave, though this flight is baser than the former. Better
men than we have given way to their enemies, having been
betrayed by fortune, or oppressed by multitude; but he that
gives way under labor or distresses, under the ill opinions
or reports of men, yields the victory to his own effeminacy.
For a voluntary death ought not to be chosen as a relief from
action, but as an exemplary action itself...
Cleomenes with his company roamed about the city, none
joining with him, but all retreating from and flying his
approach. Therefore, despairing of success, and saying to
his friends, that it was no wonder that women ruled over men
that were afraid of liberty.."
Plutarch, "Lives" (Cleomenes), Clough translation.
"Sullen is the male heart, repressed by Patrollotism; vehement
is the female, irrepressible ... Patrollotism represses male Patriotism:
but female Partriotism? Will Guards named National thrust their
bayonets into the bosoms of women? Such thought, or rather such
dim unshaped raw material of a thought, ferments universally under
the female nightcap; and, by earliest daybreak, on slight hint, will explode."
Carlyle, Thomas."The French Revolution" (Vol. 1, Book Seventh,
The Insurrection Of Women, Chapter III, The Black Cockades)
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So... you can quote other people. You still haven't established any course of action, which was your complaint in the beginning.
As for childish sarcasm... you started it... nanny nanny boo boo.
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A more detailed article on this experiment has been released by the AP. You can read it here.
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