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The piece reiterates ideas which can be found in Daniel Amneus's book "Garbage Generation" (c.1992), which can be read free online (-sorry, I don't have the URL handy but it should be easy to find)... namely that the lack of female sexual regulation doesn't *appear* to be all that bad because its deleterious effects skip a generation, changing genders in the process; a more typical outcome (since by definition not everyone can become a rap star) would have been prison, so M&M deserves some credit (though not much) for partially transcending his origins - though there's still plenty of time for him to do even more damage.
But, yes, lack of patriarchal socialization of male children is not a Good Thing.
/* Not All Men Are Fools -- Some Are Martian Bachelors!! */
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 02, @03:35PM EST (#2)
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Chris is it? hi Adam here, been thinking about putting your website in the links section at mensactivism here, let me know if you want your site listed ok? cool.
oh yeah that link you want and his other book:
The Garbage Generation
Case For Father Custody
I'll get back to you this tuesday, I gotta get some sleep, first day on the job and all :)
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OK boys, this is an older guy here with a whole lot of perception and experience with Eminem types. I read Schlussle's article and all she did was regurgitate bullshit psychological thoeries about the results of the breakdown of the family and using Mathers as the whipping boy. This is the same kind of shit that has oppressed men like Mathers and he even addresses the "crack baby" horseshit that he was subjected too himself to marginalize him.
First of all, Mathers has done more for the men's movement than even Dr Laura. He uses the best of rap and black culture to rail against his oppression and ticks off men's issue afer men's issue in the process. What awes me about the guy is how in the face of the adversity of being raised by women in a female dominated culture that he was able to find his masculinity and excel even more in it than those raised in normal circumstances. I believe it is precisely because of his oppression that he was able to find his way there on his own.
We should be celebrating him and supporting him to the max in the men's movement and not resorting to the very thing that is oppressing us to demean and attck him. It's a fucking sacrilege and I'm glad it wasn't Scott who put this article up here.
I was about to make a donation to the site, but I hope this is corrected before I do.
All that being said, there may be something to the psychological thoeries, but we need to be very careful how we use them and do it humbly and in the context of the shaky ground these theroies are on scientifically. Applying those thoeries to indviduals for political reasons is unacceptable tactics. That's a feminist tactic we can do without, though there are many others we should use to the max.
Tom
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 05, @04:24AM EST (#4)
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Explain to us in specifics why you're glad Scott didn't put this up? and what do you want corrected before you make a donation?
Adam H
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Hi Adam,
I'm sorry that I missed your post earlier. I've had more contact with Scott and that's why. What I object to is a negative article, no matter how legitimate the point being made is, having as it's central premise a hero of the men's movement being somehow defective. I know that his lyrics and imagery are shocking and unsettling, but so are the times we live in. He's accurately reflecting the culture and the dilemna of men in this society and doing it with the appropriate amount of rage and angst. He doesn't show any signs of pathology, quite the contrary, so why would we want to support a view point that does and thereby demean his message which is vital to our cause?
Tom
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 09, @04:39AM EST (#8)
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How's it going Tom?
I thought you'd have something to say about this, the article seemed to blame socialization and father absence more than him (Maybe you read between the lines alot better and see something I missed)anyway, I get what you're saying (about her blaming him if you read between the lines I think) and it's been intresting.
Adam H
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Thanks Adam for checking it out again. Much of this pop psych stuff is directed AGAINST MALES. While I think it is OK when used in certain reticent ways, that particular article was making broad brush strokes without looking at the positive side to things. Humans are resilent, and this comming generation will need the resilence of an Eminem to overcome what Em clearly bemoans as their contemporary fate. That fate goes directly to what we advocate for here.
Tom
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 05, @08:02AM EST (#5)
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Okay, I hate rap, but I've read some of his lyrics, and I agree with most of what you say. But the problem is one of image. All we hear from Eminem is his rap. Is someone willing to get him into a dialogue about this? Someone who can reach him? Given that your analysis is valid, and in fact, his personal values actually reflect what his art says (not always true for performing artists), is he willing to speak intelligently and publicly for men's rights? If not, he's just out there making a lot of noise.
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You have a good point. I have contacted Em but haven't recieved a reply. I don't know if it is necessary or even wise for him to come forward. If you listen closely to his lyrics, he already has done quite a bit to air men's issues in a way that none of us could have just through advocacy. Also, we have seen celebrities involvement in politics and it is not a pleasant experience. Maybe it is wise for them not to be involved.
I told him in one of my emails that I was grateful for what he has done and that he didn't need to do anymore if he didn't feel like it. I just wanted him to know that we were here if he should be interested or needed our help.
Tom
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